Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Kenneth La Torre]

Merged zamasu is so last arc. I dont know whats so special about zamasu now that we jave an antagonisg above G.o.D power, and a fusion that can be near G.o.D power.

Probably because Zamasu is a fan-favourite and, unlike Jiren, has a convincing and compelling personality, as well as a complex, extensive and in-depth backstory and a relatable ideology that drives him forward. Also, the fact that he became the Universe and was spreading his influence throughout all realities. Besides, Zamasu didn't have such thick plot armor like Kefla and Jiren do. Which is why he is considered 'weaker' than them.

But don't worry, when the eternal Zamasu will come back, you will see the truth.

Well, out of all things you said, nothing would make him superior in power. Does merged zamasu have far superior qualities than jiren? Irrelavent. I feel meh about jiren in terms of personality, but when it comes to power, the dude is unbelievable. Shaking an infinite realm of nothingness is far more impressive than anything merged zamasu ever did.

Also, Zamasu coming back? I'm sorry buddy, but you can expect that in AF, not in super.

[pacz360]

Katopesla fought SSJ Vegeta and was able to regain composure after getting hit by a Final Flash. He's not weak and is fairly strong in the scheme of ToP, since a lot of fighters in the ToP are weaker than Base Sayains, while Katopesla was going toe-to-toe with SSJ Vegeta. He'd probably beat Frost, the trio de dangers(1v1 not together), and all of Universe 2 by himself.

Agreed
Anyways current list Top
God tier: Jiren,UI Goku ,ssj2 kelfa
Above blue tier: ssjb kkx20 goku W/O spirit bomb, Hit (cage of time)Ssj kefla,ssjb kkx1-10,FP toppo?
Blue tier: ssjb goku,ssjb vegeta,Golden Freeza,Hit,base toppo,Ultimate Gohan
Ssjg/low blue tier: Dyspo,Pirina,Saeonal,Base Kefla,17,Obuni, current Ssjg goku,mastered controlled ssj kale

[SupremeKai25]

Does merged zamasu have far superior qualities than jiren?

Immortality and endless potential. Also, unlike all other fused beings, Fused Zamasu doesn't have a time limit, because it is the fusion between two official Supreme Kais (in the anime - and even in the manga, Future Zamasu's immortality denied the fusees to return to their original bodies). On top of having a personality, yeah.

but when it comes to power, the dude is unbelievable. Shaking an infinite realm of nothingness is far more impressive than anything merged zamasu ever did.

Fused Zamasu ascended to a higher state and merged with the very fabric of existence. His energy was spreading throughout the Future Multiverse and even into other timelines. Which, again, goes back to Gowasu's comment that Fused Zamasu had expanded his power to no end, on top of having immortality. Actually, it would be interesting to see how Jiren would be able to defeat Infinite Zamasu, a 4th dimensional ethereal being who had merged with the very Universe. Beerus for sure wouldn't be able to do anything against Infinite Zamasu, since as proved before, he cannot erase immortal beings (and Infinite Zamasu consisted only of Zamasu's immortal soul). A combined Kamehameha - Galick Gun - Final Flash barely did anything at all against Infinite Zamasu, so good luck beating that with Ultra Instinct.

Regardless, it doesn't matter if Zamasu is 'last arc', he is the most succesful villain in Dragon Ball and the only one Goku and friends couldn't defeat. We didn't even get to see his full power due to the fact he was holding back because of his arrogance.

Also, Zamasu coming back? I'm sorry buddy, but you can expect that in AF, not in super.

Funnily enough, people were saying the same thing about Frieza shortly after the ROF arc.

[Myzt0gun]

Katopesla fought SSJ Vegeta and was able to regain composure after getting hit by a Final Flash. He's not weak and is fairly strong in the scheme of ToP, since a lot of fighters in the ToP are weaker than Base Sayains, while Katopesla was going toe-to-toe with SSJ Vegeta. He'd probably beat Frost, the trio de dangers(1v1 not together), and all of Universe 2 by himself.

Agreed
Anyways current list Top
God tier: Jiren,UI Goku ,ssj2 kelfa
Above blue tier: ssjb kkx20 goku W/O spirit bomb, Hit (cage of time)Ssj kefla,ssjb kkx1-10,FP toppo?
Blue tier: ssjb goku,ssjb vegeta,Golden Freeza,Hit,base toppo,Ultimate Gohan
Ssjg/low blue tier: Dyspo,Pirina,Saeonal,Base Kefla,17,Obuni, current Ssjg goku,mastered controlled ssj kale

Mostly Agreed on your tier list but IMO i think its:
GOD Tier:: Jiren, UI Goku, SSB Vegito, Dr. Rota

Way Above Blue Tier:: SSB KKx20 Goku, Hit (Using all his abilities), Toppo, Merged Zamasu (He is Immortal tho)

Above Blue Tier:: SSBx10 Goku, Hit (Can't Kill), SSJ2 Kefla

Blue Tier:: SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, Golden Frieza, SSJ1 Kefla

SSG Tier:: SSG Goku, SSG Vegeta, Base Kefla, Dyspo, Mystic Gohan, Pirina+Saonel

SSJ3 Tier:: SSJ3 Goku, Bergamo (w/ Absorption), Obuni, Piccolo, Android 17

SSJ2 Tier:: SSJ2 U7 Saiyans, Frieza (Buff Form), Maji Kayo

SSJ1 Tier:: SSJ1 U7 Saiyans, SSJ2 U6 Saiyans, Ribrianne (Giant), Android 18, Magetta, Katopesla, Kahseral, Frieza (4th Form), Rubalt

Base Goku:: SSJ1 U6 Saiyans, Bergamo (No absorption), Ribrianne, Monna, Murichim, Jimeze

Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku:: Lavender (w/ Poison), Basil (Drugs), Rozie, Kakunsa, Frost (Base - Buff), Most Pride Troopers, Zirloin

Buu Saga SSJ2 Goku:: Basil (No Drugs), Base Cabba, Base Caulifla, Zarbuto, Rabanra, Krillin+Tien

Buu Saga SSJ1 Goku:: Botamo, Damon (Hard to fight tho), Gamisaras (Hard to fight tho), Napapa, Lavender (No Poison)

[Kenneth La Torre]

Does merged zamasu have far superior qualities than jiren?

Immortality and endless potential. Also, unlike all other fused beings, Fused Zamasu doesn't have a time limit, because it is the fusion between two official Supreme Kais (in the anime - and even in the manga, Future Zamasu's immortality denied the fusees to return to their original bodies). On top of having a personality, yeah.

but when it comes to power, the dude is unbelievable. Shaking an infinite realm of nothingness is far more impressive than anything merged zamasu ever did.

Dude, you are unaware of what type of question that was? It wasnt a question for you to answer. I said" does merged zamasu have superior qualities than jiren" and after that i said "irrelavent".

Anyways, theres no debate about jiren vs merged zamasu. Jiren is obviously above. infinite zamasu vs jiren is debatable, but for me, shaking an infinite void and transcending time is more impressive than just merging with the universe and spreading into different timelines.

[SupremeKai25]

Dude, you are unaware of what type of question that was? It wasnt a question for you to answer. I said" does merged zamasu have superior qualities than jiren" and after that i said "irrelavent".

Then don't even bother posting in a forum if you don't care about others' opinion.

Anyways, theres no debate about jiren vs merged zamasu. Jiren is obviously above.

As me and many others proved, it's not. You just can't stand a debate and people having different opinions than yours. I am done replying to you, since your knowledge of Zamasu's abilities and power is primitive at best (for example, you don't realize Zamasu also transcended time - when Goku Black opened a scar in the very fabric of existence, and when Infinite Zamasu was spreading his power throughout different timelines). The hypothetical battle between the two wouldn't be nearly as one-sided as you depict it.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Dude, you are unaware of what type of question that was? It wasnt a question for you to answer. I said" does merged zamasu have superior qualities than jiren" and after that i said "irrelavent".

Then don't even bother posting in a forum if you don't care about others' opinion.

Anyways, theres no debate about jiren vs merged zamasu. Jiren is obviously above.

As me and many others proved, it's not. You just can't stand a debate and people having different opinions than yours. I am done replying to you, since your knowledge of Zamasu's abilities and power is primitive at best (for example, you don't realize Zamasu also transcended time - when Goku Black opened a scar in the very fabric of existence, and when Infinite Zamasu was spreading his power throughout different timelines). The hypothetical battle between the two wouldn't be nearly as one-sided as you depict it.

Dude, again. My question was not to be answered. I followed it up with the word "irrelavent" meaning that regardless of opinions, personality does nothing to power.

There is absolutely no debate with merged zamasu, he is in fact below jiren. But Jiren vs infinite zamasu is certainly debatable,as we dont know how G.o.Ds compare to fused zamasu.

[ZombieVito]

Does merged zamasu have far superior qualities than jiren?

Immortality and endless potential. Also, unlike all other fused beings, Fused Zamasu doesn't have a time limit, because it is the fusion between two official Supreme Kais (in the anime - and even in the manga, Future Zamasu's immortality denied the fusees to return to their original bodies). On top of having a personality, yeah.

but when it comes to power, the dude is unbelievable. Shaking an infinite realm of nothingness is far more impressive than anything merged zamasu ever did.

Dude, you are unaware of what type of question that was? It wasnt a question for you to answer. I said" does merged zamasu have superior qualities than jiren" and after that i said "irrelavent".

Anyways, theres no debate about jiren vs merged zamasu. Jiren is obviously above. infinite zamasu vs jiren is debatable, but for me, shaking an infinite void and transcending time is more impressive than just merging with the universe and spreading into different timelines.

Jiren can't beat Infinite Zamasu.

He's going to be punching air for all eternity or until he tires out and Zamasu just one shots him.

[SupremeKai25]

Immortality and endless potential. Also, unlike all other fused beings, Fused Zamasu doesn't have a time limit, because it is the fusion between two official Supreme Kais (in the anime - and even in the manga, Future Zamasu's immortality denied the fusees to return to their original bodies). On top of having a personality, yeah.

Dude, you are unaware of what type of question that was? It wasnt a question for you to answer. I said" does merged zamasu have superior qualities than jiren" and after that i said "irrelavent".

Anyways, theres no debate about jiren vs merged zamasu. Jiren is obviously above. infinite zamasu vs jiren is debatable, but for me, shaking an infinite void and transcending time is more impressive than just merging with the universe and spreading into different timelines.

Jiren can't beat Infinite Zamasu.

He's going to be punching air for all eternity or until he tires out and Zamasu just one shots him.

Indeed. It doesn't matter how strong you are, you can't do anything against an immortal ethereal being. You can't do anything against the Universe. Which is why Zen-Oh couldn't just erase Infinite Zamasu, he had to erase the entire Universe, since the two had became one single thing.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Dude, you are unaware of what type of question that was? It wasnt a question for you to answer. I said" does merged zamasu have superior qualities than jiren" and after that i said "irrelavent".

Anyways, theres no debate about jiren vs merged zamasu. Jiren is obviously above. infinite zamasu vs jiren is debatable, but for me, shaking an infinite void and transcending time is more impressive than just merging with the universe and spreading into different timelines.

Jiren can't beat Infinite Zamasu.

He's going to be punching air for all eternity or until he tires out and Zamasu just one shots him.

Indeed. It doesn't matter how strong you are, you can't do anything against an immortal ethereal being. You can't do anything against the Universe. Which is why Zen-Oh couldn't just erase Infinite Zamasu, he had to erase the entire Universe, since the two had became one single thing.

Jiren could just destroy the universe.

[SupremeKai25]

Jiren can't beat Infinite Zamasu.

He's going to be punching air for all eternity or until he tires out and Zamasu just one shots him.

Indeed. It doesn't matter how strong you are, you can't do anything against an immortal ethereal being. You can't do anything against the Universe. Which is why Zen-Oh couldn't just erase Infinite Zamasu, he had to erase the entire Universe, since the two had became one single thing.

Jiren could just destroy the universe.

But how? In the anime, Infinite Zamasu was immortal, so how could you possibly destroy an immortal being exactly?

For Jiren's sake, let's not take manga Infinite Zamasu into the equation, who can reform into several clones which are all equal in power just from a slightest trace of him. So unless Jiren is somehow able to completely disintegrate -every- single cell in Infinite Zamasu's body (which, again, is impossible because he is immortal), Infinite Zamasu would constantly reform into an endless army of Zamases which are all equal in power.

[Cetra]

Zamasu in the anime seemed completely invulnerable in his universal state. I doubt a non-Zen-Oh could defeat him. You need a bigger cheater to defeat a cheater.

There is absolutely no debate with merged zamasu, he is in fact below jiren.

That's not a fact. Its plausible at best. And Universal Zamasu, a Toei Animation creation, I would say, is even above anything that is not Zen-Oh simply because of what he was. With the whole becoming the new universe really the only thing we would have needed to see is him making other lifeforms a part of himself. But that's speculation so let's not get to that.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Indeed. It doesn't matter how strong you are, you can't do anything against an immortal ethereal being. You can't do anything against the Universe. Which is why Zen-Oh couldn't just erase Infinite Zamasu, he had to erase the entire Universe, since the two had became one single thing.

Jiren could just destroy the universe.

But how? In the anime, Infinite Zamasu was immortal, so how could you possibly destroy an immortal being exactly?

For Jiren's sake, let's not take manga Infinite Zamasu into the equation, who can reform into several clones which are all equal in power just from a slightest trace of him. So unless Jiren is somehow able to completely disintegrate -every- single cell in Infinite Zamasu's body (which, again, is impossible because he is immortal), Infinite Zamasu would constantly reform into an endless army of Zamases which are all equal in power.

The same way Zeno did, just destroy the universe and there's nowhere for Zamasu to come back.

[SupremeKai25]

Jiren could just destroy the universe.

But how? In the anime, Infinite Zamasu was immortal, so how could you possibly destroy an immortal being exactly?

For Jiren's sake, let's not take manga Infinite Zamasu into the equation, who can reform into several clones which are all equal in power just from a slightest trace of him. So unless Jiren is somehow able to completely disintegrate -every- single cell in Infinite Zamasu's body (which, again, is impossible because he is immortal), Infinite Zamasu would constantly reform into an endless army of Zamases which are all equal in power.

The same way Zeno did, just destroy the universe and there's nowhere for Zamasu to come back.

Zen-Oh didn't destroy Zamasu, he erased him and the entire Future Multiverse; which is different - you can't destroy an immortal being, but you can erase them. Beerus even states in the manga that his Destruction technique wouldn't work on the immortal Future Zamasu. Jiren has never shown the ability to erase people and objects.

Regardless, this entire debate is moot. Jiren is stated to be GoD-tier, yet a God of Destruction wouldn't be able to defeat Fused Zamasu. Why? Because Fused Zamasu had an immortal soul, the Hakai won't do anything against that. On top of the fact that Fused Zamasu,- even while being dragged down by his flawed half-mortal/immortal body -, displayed the capability to tank a SSB Vegito's FInal Kamehameha (he even bragged about it) and retained a certain degree of regeneration.

[Bullza]

Jiren should be above Merged Zamasu.

Merged Zamasu could possibly be above Ultra Instinct Goku though.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Regardless, this entire debate is moot. Jiren is stated to be GoD-tier, yet a God of Destruction wouldn't be able to defeat Fused Zamasu. Why? Because Fused Zamasu had an immortal soul, the Hakai won't do anything against that. On top of the fact that Fused Zamasu,- even while being dragged down by his flawed half-mortal/immortal body -, displayed the capability to tank a SSB Vegito's FInal Kamehameha (he even bragged about it) and retained a certain degree of regeneration.

His immortality doesn't matter, Jiren could just destroy the universe and leave him floating in the void. Or alternatively toss him into a singularity where he'll be stuck for eternity. Besides, Zamasu can't even do anything to Jiren so he might as well be immortal too.

Jiren should be above Merged Zamasu.

Merged Zamasu could possibly be above Ultra Instinct Goku though.

Merged Zamasu would get destroyed by UI Goku. He was better than a suppressed Jiren who was already above Zamasu.

[SupremeKai25]

His immortality doesn't matter

But it does matter a lot. As Beerus states in the manga and Whis supports in the anime, you -cannot- destroy an immortal soul. It doesn't matter how strong you are. It doesn't matter if you are Jiren. Unless you have some kind of technique that can -erase- beings (such as Zen-Oh's), then you cannot end the existence of an immortal being just by brute force.

It's sad how much some people in this thread are downplaying Zamasu. Yes, Jiren is strong, and i even aknowledged that Jiren would probably win. But the fight wouldn't be nearly as one-sided as some think (because, again, Jiren would need to find a way around Zamasu's immortality - sheer strength won't be enough).

In addition, i'm surprised that people are saying Fused Zamasu, - a character who was able to fight on-par with SSB Vegito -, would get destroyed by UI Goku or Jiren, as if he were a weakling. Lots of misconception around here regarding Zamasu.

[TheUltimateNinja]

His immortality doesn't matter

But it does matter a lot. As Beerus states in the manga and Whis supports in the anime, you -cannot- destroy an immortal soul. It doesn't matter how strong you are. It doesn't matter if you are Jiren. Unless you have some kind of technique that can -erase- beings (such as Zen-Oh's), then you cannot end the existence of an immortal being just by brute force.

It's sad how much some people in this thread are downplaying Zamasu. Yes, Jiren is strong, and i even aknowledged that Jiren would probably win. But the fight wouldn't be nearly as one-sided as some think (because, again, Jiren would need to find a way around Zamasu's immortality - sheer strength won't be enough).

It'd be like Vegetto vs Zamasu in the manga except without a time limit. Zamasu would just be getting owned until Jiren finds some way to seal or neutralize him.

In addition, i'm surprised that people are saying Fused Zamasu, - a character who was able to fight on-par with SSB Vegito -, would get destroyed by UI Goku or Jiren, as if he were a weakling. Lots of misconception around here regarding Zamasu.

Jiren was already confirmed to be above him while suppressed and UI Goku forced him to power up.

[ZombieVito]

Jiren can't beat Infinite Zamasu.

He's going to be punching air for all eternity or until he tires out and Zamasu just one shots him.

Indeed. It doesn't matter how strong you are, you can't do anything against an immortal ethereal being. You can't do anything against the Universe. Which is why Zen-Oh couldn't just erase Infinite Zamasu, he had to erase the entire Universe, since the two had became one single thing.

Jiren could just destroy the universe.

And that would do shit to Infinite Zamasu.

Unless Jiren can erase him, he can't win and gets killed.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Indeed. It doesn't matter how strong you are, you can't do anything against an immortal ethereal being. You can't do anything against the Universe. Which is why Zen-Oh couldn't just erase Infinite Zamasu, he had to erase the entire Universe, since the two had became one single thing.

Jiren could just destroy the universe.

And that would do shit to Infinite Zamasu.

Unless Jiren can erase him, he can't win and gets killed.

How exactly would Zamasu kill him? Also, Jiren might know Hakai. It's only in the manga continuity that it's stated to be ineffective against immortals.