It's really tiring indeed. People are still in denial about Namek Freeza > base Goku as well.HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:37 pm There’s nothing crazy about it. Cell Max > Broly. Cell just didn’t have a mind to actually use his power properly, similar to Broly when he goes nuts.
People said the same thing about Broly only for Toriyama’s in Super Hero to reconfirm that Broly might be stronger than Beerus given how Beerus acted around Broly. And the film itself hinted that Goku and Vegeta may not been able to beat Cell Max, so this didn’t come out of nowhere.
It’s tiring how this fanbase is just willing to dismiss statements even by Toriyama as ‘hype’ all because they don’t want to believe someone is that strong.
Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
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Why wouldn't he be wary when he's uncontrollable and can destroy his home on a moment's notice?HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:11 pmStatements from Goku along with weariness Beerus showed towards Broly.
As I said, Super Saiyan with god Ki makes Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. That never changed. Toriyama also never said there was no need for Super Saiyan God. He said there was no need for Super Saiyan 2 and 3 since they were just extensions Super Saiyan.
Anyway, no Toriyama said that there was no for him to become Super Saiyan God anymore.
He absorbed the power. His base form now had God power. When he became Super Saiyan he just had blue hair now instead of yellow. That was it.
Then it all changed and next thing you know he does need to turn into Super Saiyan God and turning Super Saiyan gives him yellow again.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
If Beerus was way more powerful than Broly, he could one tap him. That is what Whis always does with Beerus.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:11 pmWhy wouldn't he be wary when he's uncontrollable and can destroy his home on a moment's notice?HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:11 pmStatements from Goku along with weariness Beerus showed towards Broly.
As I said, Super Saiyan with god Ki makes Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. That never changed. Toriyama also never said there was no need for Super Saiyan God. He said there was no need for Super Saiyan 2 and 3 since they were just extensions Super Saiyan.
Anyway, no Toriyama said that there was no for him to become Super Saiyan God anymore.
He absorbed the power. His base form now had God power. When he became Super Saiyan he just had blue hair now instead of yellow. That was it.
Then it all changed and next thing you know he does need to turn into Super Saiyan God and turning Super Saiyan gives him yellow again.
I do recall him saying that Super Saiyan 2 and 3 weren't needed, but I forgot he said that about Super Saiyan God. But Super Saiyan God returned because of Toyo, not Toriyama and the anime went along with it later. And we know it was Toyo because he admitted to such.
The Namek Freeza > base Goku had some basic from being questionable since Beerus also claimed Super Saiyan Goku from Battle of Gods would struggle against Frieza at least in the anime version which got rid of the 70% line. So the whole thing reads like Beerus being dismissive even if what he was saying was true. Even Goku's statement towards Broly had some room for debate since it was 'might' and it was coming from Goku who never fought Beerus at full power since again that 70% line was removed from the retelling. Although Super Hero put a nail in that by how Broly was presented.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:42 pmIt's really tiring indeed. People are still in denial about Namek Freeza > base Goku as well.HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:37 pm There’s nothing crazy about it. Cell Max > Broly. Cell just didn’t have a mind to actually use his power properly, similar to Broly when he goes nuts.
People said the same thing about Broly only for Toriyama’s in Super Hero to reconfirm that Broly might be stronger than Beerus given how Beerus acted around Broly. And the film itself hinted that Goku and Vegeta may not been able to beat Cell Max, so this didn’t come out of nowhere.
It’s tiring how this fanbase is just willing to dismiss statements even by Toriyama as ‘hype’ all because they don’t want to believe someone is that strong.
Cell Max, however, had a straight confirmation from Toriyama himself that leave no room for 'this character don't know what they're talking about'. Cell Max was a powerhouse, but because he had no mind he couldn't use his full power. It's honestly no difference from Broly last movie where Beerus and maybe Jiren could beat Broly despite his power because he was raging monster.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Hardly a "denial" issue. More like there's no evidence when it comes to Movie 14 base Goku. But since you didn't specify, you're probably correct if you meant Cell saga base Goku or maybe Majin Buu saga base Goku.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:42 pmPeople are still in denial about Namek Freeza > base Goku as well.
No, you are making it seem like god ki/power replaced regular ki/power completely. That was never established. By the time of Movie 15 release, maybe we could infer that was the case, but nothing was set in stone that Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be able to switch back to regular Ki/power in the future. Now we know they can.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:11 pmHe absorbed the power. His base form now had God power. When he became Super Saiyan he just had blue hair now instead of yellow. That was it.
Bringing back Super Saiyan God doesn't change what Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is (Super Saiyan with god Ki/power). The only thing it affects is Saiyan beyond God. It also solidifies that Goku and Vegeta can switch between regular and god Ki whenever they want.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:11 pmThen it all changed and next thing you know he does need to turn into Super Saiyan God and turning Super Saiyan gives him yellow again.
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Beerus flat out says base Goku can't beat Freeza. No one said anything to refute that statement. It's a fact.
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Well he doesn't have to be way stronger than him.HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:14 pmIf Beerus was way more powerful than Broly, he could one tap him. That is what Whis always does with Beerus.
I do recall him saying that Super Saiyan 2 and 3 weren't needed, but I forgot he said that about Super Saiyan God. But Super Saiyan God returned because of Toyo, not Toriyama and the anime went along with it later. And we know it was Toyo because he admitted to such.
Either way regardless of who was to blame, Toriyama who wrote Broly after Resurrection F had Super Saiyan God appear after previously saying it wasn't needed anymore.
It did replace normal Ki completely. He absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God in Battle of Gods and that power became part of him. That was why he was as powerful as he was in Base form. Then when he turned Super Saiyan his turned blue instead of yellow from that point on.Grimlock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:25 pmNo, you are making it seem like god ki/power replaced regular ki/power completely. That was never established. By the time of Movie 15 release, maybe we could infer that was the case, but nothing was set in stone that Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be able to switch back to regular Ki/power in the future. Now we know they can.
It was all retconned afterwards. Of course a new anime series started up and they likely didn't want to do a long running series without using the classic Super Saiyan forms but no there was never meant to be any sort of switching.
Super Saiyan Blue was just them turning Super Saiyan after having absorbed Super Saiyan God. Then later they could still become Super Saiyan God anyway.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Near the bottom rightMr Baggins wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:59 amsupersaiyangodgogeta wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:51 am So what do you make of Jiren being stated to surpass all Gods, not just Belmod in the Universe survival arc promo for the manga?While I'm generally a lot less keen to give as much weight to promotional material as the source material, I actually wasn't aware of either of those. Do you have a screenshot, or an official link?supersaiyangodgogeta wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:51 am There was also official manga promo on the dragon ball website where the list of rivals that Goku surpassed with UI was shown and Beerus was on there along with Jiren, Zamasu and Moro.
To be clear, I think the chain you posted earlier is a possible reading. It's just odd to square away, given the escalatory nature of the manga and how UI Goku seemed fine/calm at the start of the arc, yet was still implied to be below Beerus. Jiren is only compared to Belmod, Beerus is implied to be the cream of the crop for his position, and Goku has improved his UI with more training (although I agree last chapter's UI is heavily nerfed in comparison, given his current emotional circumstances); I'd think there are less headaches associated with viewing Beerus as a mysterious goalpost rather than a long surpassed one.
Of course, it's also possible that Beerus is a moving goalpost. Toriyama has done that before even without Toyotaro's involvement, and he still heavily supervises the manga according to Super Hero's director. That's a very retcon-y stance, however.
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The only individual missing there would be Broly which makes sense given Broly's portrayal.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Still within his power range which is what Goku said at the end of Broly.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:39 pmWell he doesn't have to be way stronger than him.HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:14 pmIf Beerus was way more powerful than Broly, he could one tap him. That is what Whis always does with Beerus.
I do recall him saying that Super Saiyan 2 and 3 weren't needed, but I forgot he said that about Super Saiyan God. But Super Saiyan God returned because of Toyo, not Toriyama and the anime went along with it later. And we know it was Toyo because he admitted to such.
Either way regardless of who was to blame, Toriyama who wrote Broly after Resurrection F had Super Saiyan God appear after previously saying it wasn't needed anymore.
It did replace normal Ki completely. He absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God in Battle of Gods and that power became part of him. That was why he was as powerful as he was in Base form. Then when he turned Super Saiyan his turned blue instead of yellow from that point on.Grimlock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:25 pmNo, you are making it seem like god ki/power replaced regular ki/power completely. That was never established. By the time of Movie 15 release, maybe we could infer that was the case, but nothing was set in stone that Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be able to switch back to regular Ki/power in the future. Now we know they can.
It was all retconned afterwards. Of course a new anime series started up and they likely didn't want to do a long running series without using the classic Super Saiyan forms but no there was never meant to be any sort of switching.
Super Saiyan Blue was just them turning Super Saiyan after having absorbed Super Saiyan God. Then later they could still become Super Saiyan God anyway.
He wrote Broly after he had the anime staff retell the movies since the retellings were his idea and Super Saiyan God returning was still Toyo's idea.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Even if you circumvent the wishes with that reasoning, what about Whis saying he can’t name people stronger than Goku and Vegeta? Whis watched the entire climax of the fight between Gogeta and Broly. Would he also consider that Broly isn’t tough in sense that he can properly use his power?Mr Baggins wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:59 amThe biggest oddity of all is Granolah's/Gas's wish to be the strongest in the universe, probably. You'd have to assume that Broly's FP power is something he can't use at will, which isn't impossible, to be fair.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I just thought about something. When Vegeta talks about jiren’s disciplined mind and ki control is what made him so dangerous and a tough opponent.Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:00 pmEven if you circumvent the wishes with that reasoning, what about Whis saying he can’t name people stronger than Goku and Vegeta? Whis watched the entire climax of the fight between Gogeta and Broly. Would he also consider that Broly isn’t tough in sense that he can properly use his power?Mr Baggins wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:59 amThe biggest oddity of all is Granolah's/Gas's wish to be the strongest in the universe, probably. You'd have to assume that Broly's FP power is something he can't use at will, which isn't impossible, to be fair.
What if with Broly and cell max, they needed to have control over their minds. Then they pose a threat? Maybe cause Broly can’t control his mind, so he rages out, thus he can’t be as powerful as he could become? Maybe this is why whis didn’t consider Broly being that powerful?
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Problem with that is that Goku said Broly might be stronger than Beerus despite being an out of control rage monster and Whis saw Broly in action. So it's odd that Broly never even popped into Whis' mind outside of Toyo avoiding Broly like the plague.Berserker1921 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:10 pm I just thought about something. When Vegeta talks about jiren’s disciplined mind and ki control is what made him so dangerous and a tough opponent.
What if with Broly and cell max, they needed to have control over their minds. Then they pose a threat? Maybe cause Broly can’t control his mind, so he rages out, thus he can’t be as powerful as he could become? Maybe this is why whis didn’t consider Broly being that powerful?
Also, both Cell Max and Broly were threats since they would destroy themselves on top of everything around them. The difference being is that they would be unstoppable if they knew how to used their power. It's very much like the current arc where both Gas and Granaloh are noobs with their new power and can be outplayed by people weaker than them until they asspull more power.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Maybe Goku was wrong? Whis would be a more reliable narrator in this circumstances, he knows Beerus fully. He did train him after all. I mean he immediately agree with vegeta after his assessment about Jiren. He would have agreed with Goku had it been true.HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:32 pmProblem with that is that Goku said Broly might be stronger than Beerus despite being an out of control rage monster and Whis saw Broly in action. So it's odd that Broly never even popped into Whis' mind outside of Toyo avoiding Broly like the plague.Berserker1921 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:10 pm I just thought about something. When Vegeta talks about jiren’s disciplined mind and ki control is what made him so dangerous and a tough opponent.
What if with Broly and cell max, they needed to have control over their minds. Then they pose a threat? Maybe cause Broly can’t control his mind, so he rages out, thus he can’t be as powerful as he could become? Maybe this is why whis didn’t consider Broly being that powerful?
Also, both Cell Max and Broly were threats since they would destroy themselves on top of everything around them. The difference being is that they would be unstoppable if they knew how to used their power. It's very much like the current arc where both Gas and Granaloh are noobs with their new power and can be outplayed by people weaker than them until they asspull more power.
I read the translated drafts from toriyama about cell max and Broly.
He said that if cell was complete. He would pose a threat to Broly. And from what I understood cell max was lacking a brain. And had he have that control. He could defeat Broly. A mindless Broly.
Maybe mental control plays a big part in strength. And like you said gas and granolah should be much stronger than what they are. However they lack experience and control to be truly dangerous.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Assuming that Broly is incapable of using/controlling FP at will, I think you can handwave it with the same reasoning. Broly is only stronger than Goku and Vegeta when his strongest form is (unintentionally) triggered.
Of course, handwaving is just that — handwaving. The truth of the matter is that Toriyama started scripting Super Hero years ago and likely had no distinct idea or conception of what story content he'd collaborate with Toyotaro on later. I don't think he's actively trying to establish another branching continuity or anything like that, but as the director said, they're not thinking too much about the overarching timeline in general.
What this means is that there can be some hiccups that require fans to explain away or otherwise ignore. I'm not in love with the idea, but it is what it is. At least they had enough foresight to leave Goku and Vegeta out of the action, considering the time it was written.
Last edited by Mr Baggins on Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Why would Goku be wrong about a foe that took Gogeta Blue to beat and Whis wasn't there when Goku said Broly might be stronger than Beerus. So how could Whis confirmed Goku's statement on Broly? And even if Broly was weaker than Beerus he was still stronger than both Goku and Vegeta and forced them to fused, so Whis saying 'I can't think of anyone stronger than Goku and Vegeta' still makes no sense.Berserker1921 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:43 pm
Maybe Goku was wrong? Whis would be a more reliable narrator in this circumstances, he knows Beerus fully. He did train him after all. I mean he immediately agree with vegeta after his assessment about Jiren. He would have agreed with Goku had it been true.
I read the translated drafts from toriyama about cell max and Broly.
He said that if cell was complete. He would pose a threat to Broly. And from what I understood cell max was lacking a brain. And had he have that control. He could defeat Broly. A mindless Broly.
Maybe mental control plays a big part in strength. And like you said gas and granolah should be much stronger than what they are. However they lack experience and control to be truly dangerous.
Herms' translation was that not even Broly could beat Cell Max if he was complete.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Didn’t whis laugh when beerus sneezed as he looked up in the sky. After Goku said that statement. Wasn’t that signaling or implying he knew what Goku was saying. In Japanese culture if you say something bad about someone. Don’t they sneeze? Beerus looking pissed. Whis laughing in responses, meant he heard the sentence. As they broke the fourth wall.HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:02 pmWhy would Goku be wrong about a foe that took Gogeta Blue to beat and Whis wasn't there when Goku said Broly might be stronger than Beerus. So how could Whis confirmed Goku's statement on Broly? And even if Broly was weaker than Beerus he was still stronger than both Goku and Vegeta and forced them to fused, so Whis saying 'I can't think of anyone stronger than Goku and Vegeta' still makes no sense.Berserker1921 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:43 pm
Maybe Goku was wrong? Whis would be a more reliable narrator in this circumstances, he knows Beerus fully. He did train him after all. I mean he immediately agree with vegeta after his assessment about Jiren. He would have agreed with Goku had it been true.
I read the translated drafts from toriyama about cell max and Broly.
He said that if cell was complete. He would pose a threat to Broly. And from what I understood cell max was lacking a brain. And had he have that control. He could defeat Broly. A mindless Broly.
Maybe mental control plays a big part in strength. And like you said gas and granolah should be much stronger than what they are. However they lack experience and control to be truly dangerous.
Herms' translation was that not even Broly could beat Cell Max if he was complete.
Well wasn’t it because they couldn’t turn into Ui? Had Goku turned Ui, he probably could have defeated Broly.
And that’s what I said. That Cell Max was incomplete because the RR control or cell’s mind wasn’t finished.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Sneezing after someone says your is when someone is talking about you. If you sneeze three times, that means someone is talking badly about you.Berserker1921 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:23 pm
Didn’t whis laugh when beerus sneezed as he looked up in the sky. After Goku said that statement. Wasn’t that signaling or implying he knew what Goku was saying. In Japanese culture if you say something bad about someone. Don’t they sneeze? Beerus looking pissed. Whis laughing in responses, meant he heard the sentence. As they broke the fourth wall.
Well wasn’t it because they couldn’t turn into Ui? Had Goku turned Ui, he probably could have defeated Broly.
And that’s what I said. That Cell Max was incomplete because the RR control or cell’s mind wasn’t finished.
"Whis laughing in responses, meant he heard the sentence. As they broke the fourth wall."
That isn't what that means at all since sneezing in Japanese culture just means someone was talking about Beerus. That's the joke.
Goku going UI has nothing to do with Broly beating two Super Saiyan God Super Saiyans and forcing them to fused. Meaning, Whis saw someone who was stronger than Goku and Vegeta who was still alive.
Cell Max was still a threat because he could destroy himself and everything around him. Him having a mind would just mean he would be cunning enough to make the best use of his power. Think Kid Buu who was a ball of destruction, but he wasn't completely mindless given he made the best use of his unique body, mastered teleportation just by seeing it once, and realized that Goku wouldn't throw the Spirit Bomb if Vegeta was in the way.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I know what you mean about cell being a threat to the planet. Wouldn’t Broly have been the same thing? This could be why Goku and vegeta fused. Fearing that they had to take him down before he accidentally destroyed the planet? That’s why I saw their urgency for them fuse, not because they couldn’t defeat Broly. But they risked Broly causing further harm to the planet if they didn’t act quickly. Frieza lasted against him for an hour. So they could have stood a chance against Broly, but risked the destruction of the planet.HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:01 pmSneezing after someone says your is when someone is talking about you. If you sneeze three times, that means someone is talking badly about you.Berserker1921 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:23 pm
Didn’t whis laugh when beerus sneezed as he looked up in the sky. After Goku said that statement. Wasn’t that signaling or implying he knew what Goku was saying. In Japanese culture if you say something bad about someone. Don’t they sneeze? Beerus looking pissed. Whis laughing in responses, meant he heard the sentence. As they broke the fourth wall.
Well wasn’t it because they couldn’t turn into Ui? Had Goku turned Ui, he probably could have defeated Broly.
And that’s what I said. That Cell Max was incomplete because the RR control or cell’s mind wasn’t finished.
"Whis laughing in responses, meant he heard the sentence. As they broke the fourth wall."
That isn't what that means at all since sneezing in Japanese culture just means someone was talking about Beerus. That's the joke.
Goku going UI has nothing to do with Broly beating two Super Saiyan God Super Saiyans and forcing them to fused. Meaning, Whis saw someone who was stronger than Goku and Vegeta who was still alive.
Cell Max was still a threat because he could destroy himself and everything around him. Him having a mind would just mean he would be cunning enough to make the best use of his power. Think Kid Buu who was a ball of destruction, but he wasn't completely mindless given he made the best use of his unique body, mastered teleportation just by seeing it once, and realized that Goku wouldn't throw the Spirit Bomb if Vegeta was in the way.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
He was, which was Goku and Vegeta fused. The movie made it very clear that Broly was a universal threat.Berserker1921 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:34 pmI know what you mean about cell being a threat to the planet. Wouldn’t Broly have been the same thing? This could be why Goku and vegeta fused. Fearing that they had to take him down before he accidentally destroyed the planet? That’s why I saw their urgency for them fuse, not because they couldn’t defeat Broly. But they risked Broly causing further harm to the planet if they didn’t act quickly. Frieza lasted against him for an hour. So they could have stood a chance against Broly, but risked the destruction of the planet.HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:01 pmSneezing after someone says your is when someone is talking about you. If you sneeze three times, that means someone is talking badly about you.Berserker1921 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:23 pm
Didn’t whis laugh when beerus sneezed as he looked up in the sky. After Goku said that statement. Wasn’t that signaling or implying he knew what Goku was saying. In Japanese culture if you say something bad about someone. Don’t they sneeze? Beerus looking pissed. Whis laughing in responses, meant he heard the sentence. As they broke the fourth wall.
Well wasn’t it because they couldn’t turn into Ui? Had Goku turned Ui, he probably could have defeated Broly.
And that’s what I said. That Cell Max was incomplete because the RR control or cell’s mind wasn’t finished.
"Whis laughing in responses, meant he heard the sentence. As they broke the fourth wall."
That isn't what that means at all since sneezing in Japanese culture just means someone was talking about Beerus. That's the joke.
Goku going UI has nothing to do with Broly beating two Super Saiyan God Super Saiyans and forcing them to fused. Meaning, Whis saw someone who was stronger than Goku and Vegeta who was still alive.
Cell Max was still a threat because he could destroy himself and everything around him. Him having a mind would just mean he would be cunning enough to make the best use of his power. Think Kid Buu who was a ball of destruction, but he wasn't completely mindless given he made the best use of his unique body, mastered teleportation just by seeing it once, and realized that Goku wouldn't throw the Spirit Bomb if Vegeta was in the way.
Goku outright said they needed to fused to fight Broly, not that time was urgent. And keep in mind, they lost an hour because they failed to fused twice. That’s more than the entire length of the TOP. They had no way of knowing that Frieza would last that long and he didn’t. Whis took over after Frieza got pounded onto a rock.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
He wasn’t a threat to the universe. And frieza lasted for an hour. Whis took over a minute or two after Freeza’s beating. And gogeta arrived. Had it been the case of them needing fusion was put down Goku quickly. I mean whis wouldn’t reverse time again. Especially because of what happened after the Goku black saga So, they needed to act quickly or else it would be like RoF again. And Broly accidentally destroys the planet.HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:45 pmHe was, which was Goku and Vegeta fused. The movie made it very clear that Broly was a universal threat.Berserker1921 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:34 pmI know what you mean about cell being a threat to the planet. Wouldn’t Broly have been the same thing? This could be why Goku and vegeta fused. Fearing that they had to take him down before he accidentally destroyed the planet? That’s why I saw their urgency for them fuse, not because they couldn’t defeat Broly. But they risked Broly causing further harm to the planet if they didn’t act quickly. Frieza lasted against him for an hour. So they could have stood a chance against Broly, but risked the destruction of the planet.HeroR wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:01 pm
Sneezing after someone says your is when someone is talking about you. If you sneeze three times, that means someone is talking badly about you.
"Whis laughing in responses, meant he heard the sentence. As they broke the fourth wall."
That isn't what that means at all since sneezing in Japanese culture just means someone was talking about Beerus. That's the joke.
Goku going UI has nothing to do with Broly beating two Super Saiyan God Super Saiyans and forcing them to fused. Meaning, Whis saw someone who was stronger than Goku and Vegeta who was still alive.
Cell Max was still a threat because he could destroy himself and everything around him. Him having a mind would just mean he would be cunning enough to make the best use of his power. Think Kid Buu who was a ball of destruction, but he wasn't completely mindless given he made the best use of his unique body, mastered teleportation just by seeing it once, and realized that Goku wouldn't throw the Spirit Bomb if Vegeta was in the way.
Goku outright said they needed to fused to fight Broly, not that time was urgent. And keep in mind, they lost an hour because they failed to fused twice. That’s more than the entire length of the TOP. They had no way of knowing that Frieza would last that long and he didn’t. Whis took over after Frieza got pounded onto a rock.