Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Thani]

How would you lot rank all these

Beerus
Belmod
Jiren at 100%
God of Destruction Toppo
Super Saiyan 2 Kefla
Ultra Instinct Omen Goku
Super Saiyan Blue Evolved Vegeta
Super Saiyan Blue Vegito
Fused Zamasu Half Corrupted

If I may, I would put some numbers on these rankings. In fact, I'll be borrowing Toriyama's own Word of God for this.

Beerus - 10 (easy enough, it's where Toriyama put him on his scale for BoG)
Belmod - 10 (for simplicity sake, I'll keep the GoD's all very close on level)
Jiren at 100% - 10.1 (it was said that Jiren was stronger than Belmod anyway; to me, however, this means "shirtless jiren")
God of Destruction Toppo - 9 (this is, to me, the bare minimum of power needed to be on the "GoD tier", and Toppo being newly ascended would fit here)
Super Saiyan 2 Kefla - 9.1~9.2 (stronger than the first Omen, otherwise they wouldn't state that she could seriously hurt second Omen)
Ultra Instinct Omen Goku - 9 (first), 9.2 (second), 9.5 (third - this one is tricky since he was doing well against Jiren, but still, at the end, he was eventually getting overwhelmed)
Super Saiyan Blue Evolved Vegeta - 8 (where I would put Goku's maximum kaioken as well); 9.1 (with his "pride boost" and final explosion)
Super Saiyan Blue Vegito - 9.8 (close enough that he could rival Beerus, but not enough to outright overpower him)
Fused Zamasu Half Corrupted - 9.6 (he managed to keep up with Vegito, despite having the clear disadvantage in the fight)

now, if I could go even further, I'd add

UI Goku - 10 (what gave him the win was his enhanced reactions increasing speed and damage, not sheer power)
Broly (Ikari) - 7.5 (where I would put SSB Goku and Vegeta)
Broly (SSj) - 8.5 (the same level of power as SSj Kefla, Anilaza and the U7 Spirit Bomb)
Broly (LSSj) - 10.1 ("probably" even stronger than Beerus)
Gogeta (Blue) - 10.3 (enough to overpower Broly, not enough to do it in one hit)

Moro (elderly) - 5 (should be even lower, imo, since his feats came from Namek's power, not his own. still, he survived direct strikes from God Vegeta)
Moro (prime) - 10 (he was sure he had transcended the very gods, and he showed it by defeating UIO Goku)
Moro-73 - 10.2~10.3 (stronger than all prior enemies, according to Goku); 10.5 (with UI)
UI Goku (Moro) - 10.5 (he became stronger thanks to Merus' training)

Merus - Impossible to say, for sure.

Whis - 15 (well, that's expected)

[Xeno Goku Black]

The whole Beerus, Jiren and Broly comparison makes it awkward because of Beerus being a shifting goalpost all the time.

Marketing said Broly was the strongest opponent yet and the movie said he was maybe stronger than Beerus which would perhaps imply that Jiren was a bit weaker than Beerus.

But Jiren was supposed to be stronger than Belmod and that wouldn't be with his Super Full Power form. That'd then create a big gap between Beerus and Belmod when it didn't sound like that was the case.

Broly >= Beerus > Jiren SFP >> Jiren 100% > Belmod

Hmmm.

Then as I said I'd out Fused Zamasu above Super Saiyan 2 Kefla for a couple reasons.

Taking into account that Blue Goku Kaio-ken Goku and Blue Evolved Vegeta were equal then God of Destruction Toppo would definitely seem stronger than Super Saiyan Kefla.

Don't know about Super Saiyan 2 Kefla.

I'd probably also said God of Destruction Toppo would be above Super Saiyan Broly being that Golden Frieza did last an hour against the latter and certainly wouldn't have lasted that long against Toppo.

[SupremeKai25]

There's also the fact that Zamasu and Vegito have way more battle experience than Kefla, which would give them a massive advantage. Experience matters a lot in a fight. Kefla at the end of the day is just a brat, she's not an experienced fighter, she just tries to overwhelm the opponent with brute strength. Meanwhile Zamasu was specifically described as a fighting genius, and Vegito is obviously a battle-hardened warrior.

As for SSB Evolution Vegeta, I put him above Toppo because I thought he was compared to Omen Goku, but now I realize that he was actually compared to Kaioken x20 Goku, so he's definitely lower on the list.

What I'm sure of is that Jiren is > Beerus/Belmod, as it's made clear from the get go that he is the mortal stronger than the Gods of Destruction. MUI Goku would be > Beerus/Belmod (since all the Destroyers stood up in admiration/shock when Goku mastered UI), but Omen would be weaker as he hasn't mastered it yet.

I still don't put Fused Zamasu/Vegito below Kefla. Again, these statements were made about Halo Fused Zamasu:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

All of these statements are 100% reliable. Vegeta fought Beerus in the past, Shin knows Beerus very well, Gowasu knows Rumsshi very well, they are people working closely with Gods of Destruction, so they know what they're talking about, they are experts on the subject. These are people who know very well what the Destroyers are capable of, and they still can't comprehend how Zamasu is so powerful -- or what he is at all (his mere standing as a God is beyond their comprehension).

Then we have to remember that Corrupted Zamasu >>>>> Halo Zamasu and that Vegito was equal or slightly stronger than Corrupted Zamasu. It becomes clear that Fused Zamasu and Vegito remain top-tiers in the ToP arc.

This would be my definitive ranking based on statements:

Jiren at 100% > Beerus/Belmod> Omen Goku > Blue Vegito/Fused Zamasu > SSB Evolved Vegeta > GoD Toppo > SS2 Kefla.

[Noah]

Is there any media that confirms Broly > Jiren?

Cuz, I don't think so.

[Xeno Goku Black]

No it was just something in a magazine as promotion.

By all means Jiren 100% seemed as though he should be above Broly. Super Full Power Jiren should be significantly higher than him.

[ZombieVito]

There's absolutely no way shirtless Jiren is weaker than Broly.

As for the list:

Limit Breaker Jiren: 110
Beerus: 100
Jiren: 96
Belmod: 90
Super Saiyan Blue Vegito: 65
Power Stressed Fused Zamasu Half Corrupted: 60
Enraged Super Saiyan Blue Evolved Vegeta: 55
God of Destruction Toppo: 50
Super Saiyan 2 Kefla: 48
Fused Zamasu Half Corrupted: 30
Ultra Instinct Omen Goku: No idea since Moro arc screwed up how I understood it. Going to have to wait for the anime on this one.

[shadd21]

Has it ever been disputed that Beerus is only as strong as Zamasu arc Vegito Blue?

[Hugo Boss]

Has it ever been disputed that Beerus is only as strong as Zamasu arc Vegito Blue?

On the series itself, no. At the moment, Gogeta, Broly, Jiren and Moro were implied to be probably stronger than him and Vegetto as his equal. But the series never showed Beerus going all-out either, so anything is possible.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Has it ever been disputed that Beerus is only as strong as Zamasu arc Vegito Blue?

On the series itself, no. At the moment, Gogeta, Broly, Jiren and Moro were implied to be probably stronger than him and Vegetto as his equal. But the series never showed Beerus going all-out either, so anything is possible.

I really wish both mediums wouldn't keep wiffle-waffling the line and just come out clearly and obviously.

I don't even care if Beerus is made stronger or not, I just want outright indisputable confirmation.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I have a question, guys. I've seen someone say that manga Broly is much weaker than movie Broly based on these images:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Is the image of Gogeta launching his attack actually Super Saiyan Gogeta?

Not that I believe this. I'm just wondering if there's any validity to this.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Looks fairly similar. It could be a less obvious way of showing the Kamehameha lighting up his hair, since we see that SSB Gogeta is present and shown in the first image.

[Koitsukai]

I have a question, guys. I've seen someone say that manga Broly is much weaker than movie Broly based on these images:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Is the image of Gogeta launching his attack actually Super Saiyan Gogeta?

Not that I believe this. I'm just wondering if there's any validity to this.

That Gogeta sure was "coloured" like a SS and not SSB, but I wouldn't put much thought into it, after all the manga basically is saying "remember the movie? yeah, we are not pretending it never happened, here's a recap, let's move on now".

I'd attribute that to a mistake from the guy inking the manga, after all why would Gogeta go from blue to SS when trying to finish the fight? it would imply a whole different dynamic of that battle(one that would definitely require to be expanded upon), and would be the first time someone demotes theirself for the finishing blow.

[Hugo Boss]

More importantly, am I seeing the movie version of Super Saiyan Broly (full power)? I thought Toyotaro only drew the armored version of Super Saiyan.

[The Undying]

Is the image of Gogeta launching his attack actually Super Saiyan Gogeta?

Very likely not. The volume interstitial shows SSB Gogeta and shirtless Broly, and as others have said, it's contextually just a glorified advertisement for the film.

More importantly, am I seeing the movie version of Super Saiyan Broly (full power)? I thought Toyotaro only drew the armored version of Super Saiyan.

Refer to the link above, although the colorized edition does give him this god-awful bronze hair color even without the armor. I assume the colorists just dropped the ball there. Either way, it's terrible and I hate it.

[Cipher]

All of the allusions to the evens of the Broly movie (the summary panels in Chapter 42, the interstitial in Volume 9, and that backup feature), are essentially just there to imply/remind you that the events of the movie happened, in generally the same terms, lest anyone think it's totally separate from the manga continuity or something.

If you take the summary panels at super-duper-literal face value, the events happen a little differently in the manga's continuity (we see Freeza in his "first" form, even though in a more recent back-up comic he's hanging around all the time in his final form, as in the film, and Super Saiyan Broly is tangling with SSB Goku and Vegeta before their outfits are roughed up and while the ice is all still in tact), but that's seriously getting lost in the weeds, and the second of those two summary panels reuses an illustration Toyotaro had already done in promotion of the film.

[GodVegetto91]

I have a question, guys. I've seen someone say that manga Broly is much weaker than movie Broly based on these images:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Is the image of Gogeta launching his attack actually Super Saiyan Gogeta?

Not that I believe this. I'm just wondering if there's any validity to this.

Where are you getting this from??? I FAIL to see a yellow haired Gogeta here.. Looks perfectly like SSJ Blue to me..

[Thani]

I have a question, guys. I've seen someone say that manga Broly is much weaker than movie Broly based on these images:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Is the image of Gogeta launching his attack actually Super Saiyan Gogeta?

Not that I believe this. I'm just wondering if there's any validity to this.

Where are you getting this from??? I FAIL to see a yellow haired Gogeta here.. Looks perfectly like SSJ Blue to me..

The second image. Gogeta's hair is not colored, so it looks like regular Super Saiyan.

Which it's not, of course.

[GodVegetto91]

I have a question, guys. I've seen someone say that manga Broly is much weaker than movie Broly based on these images:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Is the image of Gogeta launching his attack actually Super Saiyan Gogeta?

Not that I believe this. I'm just wondering if there's any validity to this.

Where are you getting this from??? I FAIL to see a yellow haired Gogeta here.. Looks perfectly like SSJ Blue to me..

The second image. Gogeta's hair is not colored, so it looks like regular Super Saiyan.

Which it's not, of course.

I don’t see it.. It’s only slightly lighter than the regular SSJ Blue hair.. Not enough to make me think it was SSJ1. There’s still some ink in involved here. But zero with SSJ1. That’s what people fail to see.

[ankokudaishogun]

the movie is direct canon to the manga, so there is no "manga gogeta" and "manga broly"

[Dragon Wukong]

All of the allusions to the evens of the Broly movie (the summary panels in Chapter 42, the interstitial in Volume 9, and that backup feature), are essentially just there to imply/remind you that the events of the movie happened, in generally the same terms, lest anyone think it's totally separate from the manga continuity or something.

If you take the summary panels at super-duper-literal face value, the events happen a little differently in the manga's continuity (we see Freeza in his "first" form, even though in a more recent back-up comic he's hanging around all the time in his final form, as in the film, and Super Saiyan Broly is tangling with SSB Goku and Vegeta before their outfits are roughed up and while the ice is all still in tact), but that's seriously getting lost in the weeds, and the second of those two summary panels reuses an illustration Toyotaro had already done in promotion of the film.

People want to take those "yeah the movie happened" illustrations way too literally. I see too many people try to justify it as some kinda "OH BUT EVENTS IN THE MANGA HAPPENED DIFFERENTLY" when really no, Toyotaro just couldn't be arsed to draw battle damage or forgot some minor detail while saying "yeah this movie happened".