Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat May 08, 2021 3:37 pm

That interview is referring to the strength of production. Not the plot of power levels.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat May 08, 2021 5:08 pm

Miracles wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 3:37 pm That interview is referring to the strength of production. Not the plot of power levels.
They conclude they want to execute even more amazing things in the next movie. If they are lowering the strength of production, that sentence wouldn’t make sense.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Yuji » Sat May 08, 2021 5:12 pm

Hugo Boss wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 5:08 pm
Miracles wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 3:37 pm That interview is referring to the strength of production. Not the plot of power levels.
They conclude they want to execute even more amazing things in the next movie. If they are lowering the strength of production, that sentence wouldn’t make sense.
In the context of the staff not being able to do everything they wanted. Toriyama's announcement for the new movie suggests they're going for a different visual style this time so that's likely what they were referring to.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat May 08, 2021 6:11 pm

Hugo Boss wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 5:08 pm
Miracles wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 3:37 pm That interview is referring to the strength of production. Not the plot of power levels.
They conclude they want to execute even more amazing things in the next movie. If they are lowering the strength of production, that sentence wouldn’t make sense.
All pertaining to the production of the movie [visuals, art, etc]. Nothing concerning the plot.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun May 09, 2021 9:47 am

Reading the whole conversation, it really feels out of place that line. But the lack of any note certainly suggests he is talking about the strength of the character.
Broli was too powerful, so I think it will probably go in an entirely different direction next time.
Unless you assume he meant “DBS: Broli’s [movie direction] was too powerful”. :eh:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Tue May 18, 2021 7:51 pm

Not sure what significance, if any, this detail could have but the technique used to execute Pui Pui is listed as a Double Galick Cannon. Galick Cannon happens to be described as Vegeta's equivalent signature move to the Kamehameha in the Daizenshuu.

Maybe this is just me but I find it peculiar how Vegeta would resort to a technique like this in finishing off Pui Pui when a more easily usable ability like the finger kiai used to kill Cui was an option. Is it that Vegeta felt like a more powerful technique was necessary for Pui Pui despite clearly being the superior in their fight?

What does the above action say of Pui Pui? We can infer that he's most powerful of his species and that he likely had his potential unlocked by Babidi after being inducted.

Our second glimpse into the Zoon-seijen species has Moro's subordinates easily killing them. Could we argue that fighters such as Yunba and Zauyogi were comparable to Pui Pui or even Buu arc base Vegeta? It would extensionally suggest that the human fighters were of a comparable level as well. I'm fairly certain base Vegeta in the Buu arc is estimated to be somewhere in the tens of millions, power level wise, when accounting to the base Saiyans' inferiority to Freeza in the BOG arc.

Are Krillin, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha as strong as the Buu arc base Saiyans come Moro? We know they have to be weaker than an unaltered Saganbo as they had their hands full with a lesser minion like Zauyogi. In addition, Krillin is admitted to being weaker than his wife at the beginning of the TOP arc. We can probably assume that she didn't train much at the time and may have been as strong as what we saw during the events of the Cell arc.
Last edited by Lionel on Tue May 18, 2021 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Tue May 18, 2021 8:15 pm

Lionel wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:51 pm Not sure what significance, if any, this detail could have but the technique used to execute Pui Pui is listed as a Double Galick Cannon. Galick Cannon happens to be described as Vegeta's equivalent signature move to the Kamehameha in the Daizenshuu.

Maybe this is just me but I find it peculiar how Vegeta would resort to a technique like this in finishing off Pui Pui when a more easily usable ability like the finger kiai used to kill Cui was an option. Is it that Vegeta felt like a more powerful technique was necessary for Pui Pui despite clearly being the superior in their fight?

What does the above action say of Pui Pui? We can infer that he's most powerful of his species and that he likely had his potential unlocked by Babidi after being inducted.

Our second glimpse into the Zoon-seijen species has Moro's subordinates easily killing them. Could we argue that fighters such as Yunba and Zauyogi were comparable to Pui Pui or even Buu arc base Vegeta? It would extensionally suggest that the human fighters were of a comparable level as well. I'm fairly certain base Vegeta in the Buu arc is estimated to be somewhere in the tens of millions, power level wife, when accounting to the base Saiyans' inferiority to Freeza in the BOG arc.

Are Krillin, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha as strong as the Buu arc base Saiyans come Moro? We know they have to be weaker than an unaltered Saganbo as they had their hands full with a lesser minion like Zauyogi. In addition, Krillin is admitted to being weaker than his wife at the beginning of the TOP arc. We can probably assume that she didn't train much at the time and may have been as strong as what we saw during the events of the Cell arc.
It's important to mention that, by that point, they were already empowered by Moro, so they're stronger than usual.

So the humans' training indeed payed off considerably, not that it matters really by now, but I don't mind they're being at least in the million range of BP.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Tue May 18, 2021 8:27 pm

Thani wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:15 pm
Lionel wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:51 pm Not sure what significance, if any, this detail could have but the technique used to execute Pui Pui is listed as a Double Galick Cannon. Galick Cannon happens to be described as Vegeta's equivalent signature move to the Kamehameha in the Daizenshuu.

Maybe this is just me but I find it peculiar how Vegeta would resort to a technique like this in finishing off Pui Pui when a more easily usable ability like the finger kiai used to kill Cui was an option. Is it that Vegeta felt like a more powerful technique was necessary for Pui Pui despite clearly being the superior in their fight?

What does the above action say of Pui Pui? We can infer that he's most powerful of his species and that he likely had his potential unlocked by Babidi after being inducted.

Our second glimpse into the Zoon-seijen species has Moro's subordinates easily killing them. Could we argue that fighters such as Yunba and Zauyogi were comparable to Pui Pui or even Buu arc base Vegeta? It would extensionally suggest that the human fighters were of a comparable level as well. I'm fairly certain base Vegeta in the Buu arc is estimated to be somewhere in the tens of millions, power level wife, when accounting to the base Saiyans' inferiority to Freeza in the BOG arc.

Are Krillin, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha as strong as the Buu arc base Saiyans come Moro? We know they have to be weaker than an unaltered Saganbo as they had their hands full with a lesser minion like Zauyogi. In addition, Krillin is admitted to being weaker than his wife at the beginning of the TOP arc. We can probably assume that she didn't train much at the time and may have been as strong as what we saw during the events of the Cell arc.
It's important to mention that, by that point, they were already empowered by Moro, so they're stronger than usual.

So the humans' training indeed payed off considerably, not that it matters really by now, but I don't mind they're being at least in the million range of BP.
We also see Tenshinhan, Krillin, and Roshi avoid an attack from Magetta in tandem with Piccolo and Gohan during the TOP. It's probably a detail we shouldn't look too much into though.

It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but it's fun to speculate. Do you think they're still weaker than Namek Freeza? Personally I don't see anything to indicate otherwise.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Tue May 18, 2021 8:30 pm

Lionel wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:27 pm
Thani wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:15 pm
Lionel wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:51 pm Not sure what significance, if any, this detail could have but the technique used to execute Pui Pui is listed as a Double Galick Cannon. Galick Cannon happens to be described as Vegeta's equivalent signature move to the Kamehameha in the Daizenshuu.

Maybe this is just me but I find it peculiar how Vegeta would resort to a technique like this in finishing off Pui Pui when a more easily usable ability like the finger kiai used to kill Cui was an option. Is it that Vegeta felt like a more powerful technique was necessary for Pui Pui despite clearly being the superior in their fight?

What does the above action say of Pui Pui? We can infer that he's most powerful of his species and that he likely had his potential unlocked by Babidi after being inducted.

Our second glimpse into the Zoon-seijen species has Moro's subordinates easily killing them. Could we argue that fighters such as Yunba and Zauyogi were comparable to Pui Pui or even Buu arc base Vegeta? It would extensionally suggest that the human fighters were of a comparable level as well. I'm fairly certain base Vegeta in the Buu arc is estimated to be somewhere in the tens of millions, power level wife, when accounting to the base Saiyans' inferiority to Freeza in the BOG arc.

Are Krillin, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha as strong as the Buu arc base Saiyans come Moro? We know they have to be weaker than an unaltered Saganbo as they had their hands full with a lesser minion like Zauyogi. In addition, Krillin is admitted to being weaker than his wife at the beginning of the TOP arc. We can probably assume that she didn't train much at the time and may have been as strong as what we saw during the events of the Cell arc.
It's important to mention that, by that point, they were already empowered by Moro, so they're stronger than usual.

So the humans' training indeed payed off considerably, not that it matters really by now, but I don't mind they're being at least in the million range of BP.
We also see Tenshinhan, Krillin, and Roshi avoid an attack from Magetta in tandem with Piccolo and Gohan during the TOP. It's probably a detail we shouldn't look too much into though.

It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but it's fun to speculate. Do you think they're still weaker than Namek Freeza? Personally I don't see anything to indicate otherwise.
It's never stated one way or another, but if it took Goku training with Whis to (perhaps) surpass that level in his normal form, I don't see the earthlings getting there too with their regular training. Maybe they did, but I'm not sure I can see it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Tue May 18, 2021 8:35 pm

Thani wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:30 pm
Lionel wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:27 pm
Thani wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:15 pm

It's important to mention that, by that point, they were already empowered by Moro, so they're stronger than usual.

So the humans' training indeed payed off considerably, not that it matters really by now, but I don't mind they're being at least in the million range of BP.
We also see Tenshinhan, Krillin, and Roshi avoid an attack from Magetta in tandem with Piccolo and Gohan during the TOP. It's probably a detail we shouldn't look too much into though.

It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but it's fun to speculate. Do you think they're still weaker than Namek Freeza? Personally I don't see anything to indicate otherwise.
It's never stated one way or another, but if it took Goku training with Whis to (perhaps) surpass that level in his normal form, I don't see the earthlings getting there too with their regular training. Maybe they did, but I'm not sure I can see it.
Yeah, they would need some kind of extraordinary training method to break through the ceiling if we're considering the Saiyans' own hurdles with overcoming Freeza untransformed. The only one I can see having occurred is Krillin training with his genetically modified wife. Shame we never hear anything about their potential sparring sessions with each other.

Do you think there's still a place left for them in the fighting or do you think they're past their time?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Tue May 18, 2021 9:10 pm

The anime version of the humans have been inflated since Namek. Super continues that trend and basically puts them alongside the base Saiyans. Krillin himself is often comparative to #18 before she got a big power boost against Ribrianne. I think it's clear that most fighters in the ToP, at least anime-wise are stronger than Namek arc Frieza. I think only fighters like Shantza are possibly that weak, but everyone else is fairly competitive.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue May 18, 2021 11:50 pm

The current arc has Namek Freeza as a pretty important power benchmark, so I doubt fodder from the previous arc was above that. That would extend to the humans, who at best I think could beat Namek Freeza ganging up on him relying on strategy and technique.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Tue May 18, 2021 11:55 pm

Well in light of the determined estimations for where the humans stand from a martial standpoint, you have to wonder where generic humanoid aliens like Saganbo spawned since he can be reasonably determined to have surpassed Freeza even without enhancements from Moro going by Vegeta's comment. What training did he undergo and how is it that he's able to surpass the feared tyrant of the galaxy from his heyday? I would like to learn about that

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed May 19, 2021 1:22 am

Lionel wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:55 pm Well in light of the determined estimations for where the humans stand from a martial standpoint, you have to wonder where generic humanoid aliens like Saganbo spawned since he can be reasonably determined to have surpassed Freeza even without enhancements from Moro going by Vegeta's comment. What training did he undergo and how is it that he's able to surpass the feared tyrant of the galaxy from his heyday? I would like to learn about that
I don't know, I'm not so sure Saganbo surpassed Freeza. I was under the impression that the Galactic Patrol didn't mess with Freeza, at least Cheelai joining the army to get away from the Galactic Patrol hints at that, but I could be missing some statement from Jaco about it or something else. If I'm not forgetting anything, then Saganbo being imprisoned and unable to break free, puts him below Freeza.

Yes, Trunks is stronger than both, Freeza and Saganbo, but Vegeta's comment only puts Saganbo below the weakest SS around(and by now the weakest power of his close circle of acquaintances), never ranks him or anything.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Wed May 19, 2021 2:04 am

Koitsukai wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 1:22 am
Lionel wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:55 pm Well in light of the determined estimations for where the humans stand from a martial standpoint, you have to wonder where generic humanoid aliens like Saganbo spawned since he can be reasonably determined to have surpassed Freeza even without enhancements from Moro going by Vegeta's comment. What training did he undergo and how is it that he's able to surpass the feared tyrant of the galaxy from his heyday? I would like to learn about that
I don't know, I'm not so sure Saganbo surpassed Freeza. I was under the impression that the Galactic Patrol didn't mess with Freeza, at least Cheelai joining the army to get away from the Galactic Patrol hints at that, but I could be missing some statement from Jaco about it or something else. If I'm not forgetting anything, then Saganbo being imprisoned and unable to break free, puts him below Freeza.

Yes, Trunks is stronger than both, Freeza and Saganbo, but Vegeta's comment only puts Saganbo below the weakest SS around(and by now the weakest power of his close circle of acquaintances), never ranks him or anything.
When did Merus join the Galatic Patrol? We could write off the GP's detainment of more powerful inmates as the product of Merus' participation. They may be hesitant to attempt a break out knowing that Merus can recapture them at any time.

To be fair, we see Trunks handling multiple Cell Jrs at once in the one page depiction of him and Goten on #17's island. It's a bit of a chasm to be positioned in between Cell Jrs and Freeza. Vegeta's words also seem to imply that while Saganbo is nothing to the likes of himself, Trunks "defeating" him may not be just a casual execution -- otherwise I would think that Vegeta would include Trunks in his projections of Saganbo not being a worthy opponent for him.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sun May 23, 2021 7:15 pm

How strong, do you guys think, Granola was before powering up to fight UI SSB Goku?? (damn, finally the day came when I said those words).

And who is the strongest UI SSG Goku could defeat? what about Merged Zamasu, who was CSSB tier. Could current SSG Goku using his instinct, as Vegeta put it, be FT arc CSSB tier?
Could UI SSG Goku take on Ikari Broly? what about SS Broly?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon May 24, 2021 8:23 am

Koitsukai wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 7:15 pm How strong, do you guys think, Granola was before powering up to fight UI SSB Goku?? (damn, finally the day came when I said those words).

And who is the strongest UI SSG Goku could defeat? what about Merged Zamasu, who was CSSB tier. Could current SSG Goku using his instinct, as Vegeta put it, be FT arc CSSB tier?
Could UI SSG Goku take on Ikari Broly? what about SS Broly?
There’s no way to know the answer to all of these questions at all. Besides, there’s no definitive proof that Goku is using UI in SSJ Blue now. (He might do it in the next chapter) but until we get confirmation, we can not say that for sure.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Jack Bz » Mon May 24, 2021 8:34 am

I agree. In the last chapter, Goku seems to not be using UI unless he does the specific indicator of closing his eyes. And when he does, he basically only uses it as an auto-dodge and not as an offensive tool, so it's hard to gauge his strength level. It's probably fair to say that super saiyan God UI Goku can dodge people significantly stronger than him but that's all we've seen so far.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon May 24, 2021 9:41 am

(Initial level) Granolah is stronger than current SSG Goku and is able to counter Ultra Instinct with his sharp eye.

In another hand, if his performance side by side with Vegeta is any indication, it’s possible that Ultra Instinct makes all Goku’s forms perform more or less a hair behind his next form, so perhaps current SSG Goku could beat someone that Moro Arc SSB Goku could beat, for example. Maybe Buffed Saganbo? Yet it doesn’t seem like (Initial level) Granolah was stronger than current SSB Goku, so it’s equally possible that this difference becomes more noticeable the more Goku upgrades his transformations.

My personal take is that current SSG Goku can soundly beat anyone that he couldn’t before powering-up to SSB, like Hit or Goku Black. For now, I will exclude CSSB level threats from his scope.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue May 25, 2021 5:09 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 7:15 pm How strong, do you guys think, Granola was before powering up to fight UI SSB Goku?? (damn, finally the day came when I said those words).

And who is the strongest UI SSG Goku could defeat? what about Merged Zamasu, who was CSSB tier. Could current SSG Goku using his instinct, as Vegeta put it, be FT arc CSSB tier?
Could UI SSG Goku take on Ikari Broly? what about SS Broly?
Goku didn't even used CSSB on the chapter so it's hard to gauge.

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