Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[namekiansaiyan]

I think if Vegeta beats Frost in base it does not make Piccolo weak but Vegeta stronger than Goku.

[dbzfan7]

I think if Vegeta beats Frost in base it does not make Piccolo weak but Vegeta stronger than Goku.

Frost was weakened against Goku. If Vegeta can easily put down Frost in Base, than that means he's much stronger than Piccolo in base who couldn't win easily. If he goes Super Saiyan, that gives hope that even a tired Frost is at least stronger than base Vegeta, which can make Piccolo possibly above base saiyans.

[Neon Z]

To simplify what dbzfan7 said above: look at Piccolo vs Frost as a slightly more one-sided Goku vs Cell fight. Piccolo is Goku, someone who, while strong, needs a technique to overcome the gap between himself and his opponent. In the case of Goku, it was charging up a Kamehameha to power up enough to blow Cell in half, with Piccolo, it's charging up a Devil Drill Beam to blast his opponent out of the ring.

If Piccolo was confident that he could take Frost without using such a technique or without asking him to devolve into a lesser form, he would have but he doesn't. That doesn't mean Piccolo is fodder or a weakling, just that he needs an all or nothing tactic to compensate for an obvious gap between himself and Frost just like Goku did against Cell.

A very good comparison. Goku had to use a full power Kamehameha because he knew in the long run he'd lose. So he feigned an attempt to destroy earth and then teleported and hit Cell with all his might. Though I have no idea how the Makankosappo is gonna push Frost out. If anything it's going to pierce or kill him if Piccolo isn't careful.

Well, if Frost's body is anything like Freeza's he could survive even while being torn into pieces. Although I don't think Piccolo would know about that...

[dbzfan7]

To simplify what dbzfan7 said above: look at Piccolo vs Frost as a slightly more one-sided Goku vs Cell fight. Piccolo is Goku, someone who, while strong, needs a technique to overcome the gap between himself and his opponent. In the case of Goku, it was charging up a Kamehameha to power up enough to blow Cell in half, with Piccolo, it's charging up a Devil Drill Beam to blast his opponent out of the ring.

If Piccolo was confident that he could take Frost without using such a technique or without asking him to devolve into a lesser form, he would have but he doesn't. That doesn't mean Piccolo is fodder or a weakling, just that he needs an all or nothing tactic to compensate for an obvious gap between himself and Frost just like Goku did against Cell.

A very good comparison. Goku had to use a full power Kamehameha because he knew in the long run he'd lose. So he feigned an attempt to destroy earth and then teleported and hit Cell with all his might. Though I have no idea how the Makankosappo is gonna push Frost out. If anything it's going to pierce or kill him if Piccolo isn't careful.

Well, if Frost's body is anything like Freeza's he could survive even while being torn into pieces. Although I don't think Piccolo would know about that...

Well I wonder if he was gonna shoot his head, or through his own arms.

[ekrolo2]

Well I wonder if he was gonna shoot his head, or through his own arms.

Ehh, Piccolo could take a hit through the arms. Not like it matters for him.

[ZombieVito]

I think if Vegeta beats Frost in base it does not make Piccolo weak but Vegeta stronger than Goku.

Frost was weakened against Goku. If Vegeta can easily put down Frost in Base, than that means he's much stronger than Piccolo in base who couldn't win easily. If he goes Super Saiyan, that gives hope that even a tired Frost is at least stronger than base Vegeta, which can make Piccolo possibly above base saiyans.

The only way Vegeta is above Piccolo in base is if he is using his god powers. If Vegeta beats Frost in base then this could disprove the theory about switching base powers.

Man I really want to know this. Thank god I was a kid when Dragon ball was airing because the wait is unbearable,

[dbzfan7]

I think if Vegeta beats Frost in base it does not make Piccolo weak but Vegeta stronger than Goku.

Frost was weakened against Goku. If Vegeta can easily put down Frost in Base, than that means he's much stronger than Piccolo in base who couldn't win easily. If he goes Super Saiyan, that gives hope that even a tired Frost is at least stronger than base Vegeta, which can make Piccolo possibly above base saiyans.

The only way Vegeta is above Piccolo in base is if he is using his god powers. If Vegeta beats Frost in base then this could disprove the theory about switching base powers.

Man I really want to know this. Thank god I was a kid when Dragon ball was airing because the wait is unbearable,

I'm saying if he easily beats Frost, that means Frost isn't that special, and neither is Piccolo. If Vegeta goes Super Saiyan, that should give Piccolo some credibility, unless the whole two base theory is right. The summary says he crushes Frost. We saw Goku crush him as an SSJ, so that would be my guess. If he crushes him in base, then Piccolo is not even close to Vegeta.

[The Monkey King]

There is another interesting point that can be made about Piccolo's Power level and the use of the SBP.

Back in the saiyan saga when he used it against Raditz his PL more than trippled:

Spoiler:

So maybe Piccolo used to the power boost given to him by the SBP before firing to keep up with and already tired Frost...

[namekiansaiyan]

The only way Vegeta is above Piccolo in base is if he is using his god powers. If Vegeta beats Frost in base then this could disprove the theory about switching base powers.

Man I really want to know this. Thank god I was a kid when Dragon ball was airing because the wait is unbearable,

I'm saying if he easily beats Frost, that means Frost isn't that special, and neither is Piccolo. If Vegeta goes Super Saiyan, that should give Piccolo some credibility, unless the whole two base theory is right.

The two base theory is just made up crap like Goku deliberately losing against Frost. It looks like he does go Super Saiyan for two reasons:
Vegeta does not fight Magetta until episode 36.
In the preview for episode 35 at the it has Frost moving in for an attack and then looks surprised and the next bit shows Vegeta as a Super Saiyan.

[dbzfan7]

The only way Vegeta is above Piccolo in base is if he is using his god powers. If Vegeta beats Frost in base then this could disprove the theory about switching base powers.

Man I really want to know this. Thank god I was a kid when Dragon ball was airing because the wait is unbearable,

I'm saying if he easily beats Frost, that means Frost isn't that special, and neither is Piccolo. If Vegeta goes Super Saiyan, that should give Piccolo some credibility, unless the whole two base theory is right.

The two base theory is just made up crap like Goku deliberately losing against Frost. It looks like he does go Super Saiyan for two reasons:
Vegeta does not fight Magetta until episode 36.
In the preview for episode 35 at the it has Frost moving in for an attack and then looks surprised and the next bit shows Vegeta as a Super Saiyan.

Dude you rub people the wrong way because you are not interested in discussing theories and opinions on an ongoing show. You are only interested in being right, and believing your way is the right way. You are free to think what you want, but don't insult someone's theory because you don't like it. Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. Do not act like you are correct right now.

[namekiansaiyan]

The two base theory is just made up crap like Goku deliberately losing against Frost. It looks like he does go Super Saiyan for two reasons:
Vegeta does not fight Magetta until episode 36.
In the preview for episode 35 at the it has Frost moving in for an attack and then looks surprised and the next bit shows Vegeta as a Super Saiyan.

Dude you rub people the wrong way because you are not interested in discussing theories and opinions on an ongoing show. You are only interested in being right, and believing your way is the right way. You are free to think what you want, but don't insult someone's theory because you don't like it. Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. Do not act like you are correct right now.

Everyone on here is making shit up to try and prove theories pulled out of their arse which have no weight behind them and it ends up like some kind of fanfiction. What I find is that if you had to think hard for your reason to prove something in these kind of shows then it is most probably wrong and you are just over thinking simple things. Also this made up crap gets spread around the internet and people start thinking it is fact and that is something you don't want.

[dbzfan7]

The two base theory is just made up crap like Goku deliberately losing against Frost. It looks like he does go Super Saiyan for two reasons:
Vegeta does not fight Magetta until episode 36.
In the preview for episode 35 at the it has Frost moving in for an attack and then looks surprised and the next bit shows Vegeta as a Super Saiyan.

Dude you rub people the wrong way because you are not interested in discussing theories and opinions on an ongoing show. You are only interested in being right, and believing your way is the right way. You are free to think what you want, but don't insult someone's theory because you don't like it. Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. Do not act like you are correct right now.

Everyone on here is making shit up to try and prove theories pulled out of their arse which have no weight behind them and it ends up like some kind of fanfiction. What I find is that if you had to think hard for your reason to prove something in these kind of shows then it is most probably wrong and you are just over thinking simple things.

No that is not what I see. I see someone merely upset people don't agree with him about Piccolo. Someone who I have seen get upset when someone has anything bad to say about him. Everyone who disagree's with you is based on theories and observation which do have support. But like all theories, they can be wrong. I don't think they believe they are right and you are wrong. As of now no one is really right. We're theorizing on a show. You're sucking the fun out of it by telling people they are wrong and forcing your theory as the only way things can be.

You could be right, or you could be wrong. This is an ongoing show that isn't finished. We don't know all the details. I don't parade that Vegeta tidbit as anything yet, because I don't really know the full context of it yet. It's the same with me for Piccolo. I don't have all my answers yet. I'm not dead convinced he's a god tier. I am skeptical. You don't need to try and shove your theory as a fact when Super will do it for you sooner or later if those theories come to pass.

Yet that isn't good enough. It's apparently an insult to you if someone doesn't believe you. This is an ongoing show and so people are going to have different observations than you. What you might see, someone will see differently. What you might think is one way, someone thinks is different. The show will sooner or later clarify, so there's no need to get defensive about Piccolo.

[namekiansaiyan]

No that is not what I see. I see someone merely upset people don't agree with him about Piccolo. Someone who I have seen get upset when someone has anything bad to say about him. Everyone who disagree's with you is based on theories and observation which do have support. But like all theories, they can be wrong. I don't think they believe they are right and you are wrong. As of now no one is really right. We're theorizing on a show. You're sucking the fun out of it by telling people they are wrong and forcing your theory as the only way things can be.

You could be right, or you could be wrong. This is an ongoing show that isn't finished. We don't know all the details. I don't parade that Vegeta tidbit as anything yet, because I don't really know the full context of it yet. It's the same with me for Piccolo. I don't have all my answers yet. I'm not dead convinced he's a god tier. I am skeptical. You don't need to try and shove your theory as a fact when Super will do it for you sooner or later if those theories come to pass.

Yet that isn't good enough. It's apparently an insult to you if someone doesn't believe you. This is an ongoing show and so people are going to have different observations than you. What you might see, someone will see differently. What you might think is one way, someone thinks is different. The show will sooner or later clarify, so there's no need to get defensive about Piccolo.

I don't care what you say about Piccolo, the thing that annoys me is the 2 base Goku rumour which I am starting to hear all over the internet, which many people are starting to think is fact.

[dbzfan7]

No that is not what I see. I see someone merely upset people don't agree with him about Piccolo. Someone who I have seen get upset when someone has anything bad to say about him. Everyone who disagree's with you is based on theories and observation which do have support. But like all theories, they can be wrong. I don't think they believe they are right and you are wrong. As of now no one is really right. We're theorizing on a show. You're sucking the fun out of it by telling people they are wrong and forcing your theory as the only way things can be.

You could be right, or you could be wrong. This is an ongoing show that isn't finished. We don't know all the details. I don't parade that Vegeta tidbit as anything yet, because I don't really know the full context of it yet. It's the same with me for Piccolo. I don't have all my answers yet. I'm not dead convinced he's a god tier. I am skeptical. You don't need to try and shove your theory as a fact when Super will do it for you sooner or later if those theories come to pass.

Yet that isn't good enough. It's apparently an insult to you if someone doesn't believe you. This is an ongoing show and so people are going to have different observations than you. What you might see, someone will see differently. What you might think is one way, someone thinks is different. The show will sooner or later clarify, so there's no need to get defensive about Piccolo.

I don't care what you say about Piccolo, the thing that annoys me is the 2 base Goku rumour which I am starting to hear all over the internet, which many people are starting to think is fact.

And why do you care? The show isn't over yet. So that theory may be proven right or wrong. This isn't DBZ when a theory on a concluded show would probably not get answer eventually. Once again that theory you don't like, because it discredits Piccolo. So you do care what people have to say, otherwise you wouldn't care about a theory that isn't set in stone just yet. You can feel free to disagree with it, but remember Super is not over yet. Everyone has story or battle theories on an ongoing show. We just had a bunch of theories of Goku forfeiting on purpose. That's just how it is. We are fans speculating. But you suck out the fun of that speculating by getting upset that people don't agree with your Piccolo is awesome speculations.

We get it you like Piccolo and he hasn't had a good moment in a long time. It's cool to be a fan, but let's not let that fan loyalty get upset when someone doesn't think the same way. It's only natural since each and every episode sparks a bunch of wild theories and speculation. I bet there's a theory in 5 days he fund the namekian book of legends somewhere. Maybe maybe not. Let's respect all theories and speculation. We can say why we disagree with them, but let's not stomp on them because they go against what you personality want for the series.

[namekiansaiyan]

No that is not what I see. I see someone merely upset people don't agree with him about Piccolo. Someone who I have seen get upset when someone has anything bad to say about him. Everyone who disagree's with you is based on theories and observation which do have support. But like all theories, they can be wrong. I don't think they believe they are right and you are wrong. As of now no one is really right. We're theorizing on a show. You're sucking the fun out of it by telling people they are wrong and forcing your theory as the only way things can be.

You could be right, or you could be wrong. This is an ongoing show that isn't finished. We don't know all the details. I don't parade that Vegeta tidbit as anything yet, because I don't really know the full context of it yet. It's the same with me for Piccolo. I don't have all my answers yet. I'm not dead convinced he's a god tier. I am skeptical. You don't need to try and shove your theory as a fact when Super will do it for you sooner or later if those theories come to pass.

Yet that isn't good enough. It's apparently an insult to you if someone doesn't believe you. This is an ongoing show and so people are going to have different observations than you. What you might see, someone will see differently. What you might think is one way, someone thinks is different. The show will sooner or later clarify, so there's no need to get defensive about Piccolo.

I don't care what you say about Piccolo, the thing that annoys me is the 2 base Goku rumour which I am starting to hear all over the internet, which many people are starting to think is fact.

And why do you care? The show isn't over yet. So that theory may be proven right or wrong. This isn't DBZ when a theory on a concluded show would probably not get answer eventually. Once again that theory you don't like, because it discredits Piccolo. So you do care what people have to say, otherwise you wouldn't care about a theory that isn't set in stone just yet. You can feel free to disagree with it, but remember Super is not over yet. Everyone has story or battle theories on an ongoing show. We just had a bunch of theories of Goku forfeiting on purpose. That's just how it is. We are fans speculating. But you suck out the fun of that speculating by getting upset that people don't agree with your Piccolo is awesome speculations.

We get it you like Piccolo and he hasn't had a good moment in a long time. It's cool to be a fan, but let's not let that fan loyalty get upset when someone doesn't think the same way. It's only natural since each and every episode sparks a bunch of wild theories and speculation. I bet there's a theory in 5 days he fund the namekian book of legends somewhere. Maybe maybe not. Let's respect all theories and speculation. We can say why we disagree with them, but let's not stomp on them because they go against what you personality want for the series.

The 2 base theory could never get proved or disproved, but with the Goku losing on purpose theory, we knew we were going to get an answer so this is something that is not good if people keep thinking its fact.

[dbzfan7]

The 2 base theory could never get proved or disproved, but with the Goku losing on purpose theory, we knew we were going to get an answer so this is something that is not good if people keep thinking its fact.

You don't know that. Super is not over. Again what bad comes out of people thinking this? It's a fan theory they are allowed to have. It has no power over the show. It only seems bad because you don't like people thinking Piccolo isn't that special. You've made that very clear. The show will give us answers. It's only just begun it's first original arc.

[namekiansaiyan]

The 2 base theory could never get proved or disproved, but with the Goku losing on purpose theory, we knew we were going to get an answer so this is something that is not good if people keep thinking its fact.

You don't know that. Super is not over. Again what bad comes out of people thinking this? It's a fan theory they are allowed to have. It has no power over the show. It only seems bad because you don't like people thinking Piccolo isn't that special. You've made that very clear. The show will give us answers. It's only just begun it's first original arc.

People can have fan theories but facts take precedence over them. So saying Piccolo is stronger than base Goku which has evidence has more truth and weight to it than the 2 base theories which has no evidence right now.

[dbzfan7]

The 2 base theory could never get proved or disproved, but with the Goku losing on purpose theory, we knew we were going to get an answer so this is something that is not good if people keep thinking its fact.

You don't know that. Super is not over. Again what bad comes out of people thinking this? It's a fan theory they are allowed to have. It has no power over the show. It only seems bad because you don't like people thinking Piccolo isn't that special. You've made that very clear. The show will give us answers. It's only just begun it's first original arc.

People can have fan theories but facts take precedence over them. So saying Piccolo is stronger than base Goku which has evidence has more truth and weight to it than the 2 base theories which has no evidence right now.

That's not what I see. I'm seeing "My word take precedence over what they say". I've seen plenty of support to the theory. It's not good enough for you to disagree, it must be wrong. Which is why this thread has become an unwelcoming close minded thread, run by pure fanboyism. There's no point in having a conversation with you because you don't care about what other people have to say, you only care about what you have to say unless someone else has something you agree with. I can acknowledge the other points. I can see where they come from. There is no fun in this thread, when we can't have fun speculation, without upset fans trying to shove their opinions as fact.

[buutenks]

Jeez.

Its simple. Goku doesnt channel his god strength so he fights with his former power prior to the god power up.

or he simply always has this power and he used it to the max vs third form frost.

Which would put frost on the 1-10 scale and so would piccolo.

But we do know this, in the cell games piccolo was able to hold his own vs a cell jr(or atleast take the beating and still stand) then he trains with gohan for quite an amount of time. So he definitely got much stronger.

ofc then we have piccolo stating that he cannot keep up with goku and vegeta, implying he is not at god tier.

[dbzfan7]

Jeez.

Its simple. Goku doesnt channel his god strength so he fights with his former power prior to the god power up.

or he simply always has this power and he used it to the max vs third form frost.

Which would put frost on the 1-10 scale and so would piccolo.

But we do know this, in the cell games piccolo was able to hold his own vs a cell jr(or atleast take the beating and still stand) then he trains with gohan for quite an amount of time. So he definitely got much stronger.

ofc then we have piccolo stating that he cannot keep up with goku and vegeta, implying he is not at god tier.

That's another point I forgot about. While training with Whis, Goku and Vegeta purposely didn't use SSJ, so they'd purposely be stronger when they transformed, while also making training harder. If Piccolo was at least in the league of Base Goku and Vegeta, he'd be the perfect sparing partner for them. But instead he says he couldn't keep up. So it's unlikely in a couple days he suddenly could, at least not without some form of proper explanation. So if Piccolo got super powerful in 5 or 6 days to be on par with Base Goku or above, an explanation is needed.