Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

I'll admit I haven't read the chapter but from seeing Geekdom's review it looks like Vegeta needed to weakened Moro and just trading blows wouldn't have worked.

Even so could Moro eat Omen? If Moro can eat evolution and cant eat Omen then Vegeta would be a better meal than Goku.

Why didn’t you read the chapter?

Moro praises Vegeta’s power at the same time he tells that will be his finest meal (which pretty much implies only that power already eclipses any other he has faced before). Also, if he catches Goku like he did before he can absorb his energy if he wanted too. Nothing really difficult for him. If anything, Goku is just faster than Vegeta.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Omen is not viable to Goku at this point so Goku is capped at completed Blue. Vegeta has evolved Blue as his cap.

This Vegeta has surpassed Goku.

Goku has already learned how to use UI Omen at will. If there are comparisons between Goku and Vegeta (as happened in this chapter), then Vegeta's SSBE will automatically be compared to the strongest form Goku is able to use, which is the UIO

Goku can not use it at will. The second he gets Uncomfortable against an opponent he reverted back to fighting like a super saiyan and lost the form, or atleast that is how I saw it.

Goku can get into Omen when he wants but he can't stay their comfortably. Omen right now is almost like Ssj on namek.

Omen has more Raw power but it is hard to use.

Moro implies Vegeta’s power is greater.

I'll admit I haven't read the chapter but from seeing Geekdom's review it looks like Vegeta needed to weakened Moro and just trading blows wouldn't have worked.

Even so could Moro eat Omen? If Moro can eat evolution and cant eat Omen then Vegeta would be a better meal than Goku.

Goku can use UI Omen for as long as he is able to withstand the energy expenditure of this form. He just returned to normal because he ran out of energy

And Moro considers all energy sources to be meals. He said that Vegeta would be his best meal, which pretty much confirms that Vegeta had more raw power than UIO Goku

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I've been reading earlier chapters of the arc and started thinking about something about the battle between God Vegeta and Moro.

Moro said at the height of his power, someone like God Vegeta would've been an insect to him. Despite being old and weakened, Moro still appeared to be in God Vegeta's league--though it required real effort on his part.

It's really hard to tell how strong Moro is early on. Feasting on Goku and Vegeta helped him grow tremendously, but he was still far inferior to Boo. Boo later says that Moro's magic power being restored isn't the same as his raw power, which is why he's going to try and eat Namek. We do see Moro pummel Dai Kaioshin with ease, so that alone shows us that Moro did indeed become quite powerful with the return of his magic. He also consumed some of Namek, though there was still a lot of energy left after all of that.

Despite his magic power being restored, it's stated that the Full-Power of Super Saiyan Blue is undoubtedly superior to Moro.

So these questions came to mind: is the jump from God to Blue that significant to have Vegeta go from having his hands full with weakened Moro to not being worried about Moro with the full-extent of his magic? Or was Moro's power increase via his restored magic really not that impressive overall?

These are all thoughts I just felt like putting down.

[Miracles]

^It's definitely the latter. The jump between Red and Blue is huge. Since Vegeta said; "magic aside," Blue was still superior to Moro, after getting his powers restored by the Dragonball's. So Moro's magic was always something formidable.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I've been reading earlier chapters of the arc and started thinking about something about the battle between God Vegeta and Moro.

Moro said at the height of his power, someone like God Vegeta would've been an insect to him. Despite being old and weakened, Moro still appeared to be in God Vegeta's league--though it required real effort on his part.

It's really hard to tell how strong Moro is early on. Feasting on Goku and Vegeta helped him grow tremendously, but he was still far inferior to Boo. Boo later says that Moro's magic power being restored isn't the same as his raw power, which is why he's going to try and eat Namek. We do see Moro pummel Dai Kaioshin with ease, so that alone shows us that Moro did indeed become quite powerful with the return of his magic. He also consumed some of Namek, though there was still a lot of energy left after all of that.

Despite his magic power being restored, it's stated that the Full-Power of Super Saiyan Blue is undoubtedly superior to Moro.

So these questions came to mind: is the jump from God to Blue that significant to have Vegeta go from having his hands full with weakened Moro to not being worried about Moro with the full-extent of his magic? Or was Moro's power increase via his restored magic really not that impressive overall?

These are all thoughts I just felt like putting down.

Imo the increase in power was just not impressive. The jump from God to Blue can't and shouldn't change now, or again, in any media.

It went down like this for me:

—Elder Moro < God Vegeta
->with a little bit of magic and energy manipulation, he evens the stage (he takes off his tunic)
—Moro using Namek for attacks < Blue Evolution Vegeta
->Moro proceeds to power up by absorbing Namek's energy
–Elder Moro (Powered Up) < Blue (according to Vegeta)
[basically what you questioned. Moro grew stronger in this instance but not enough to overcome the gap between God and Blue. Besides, it's safe to assume that he possesses the same power than Namek granted him to overwhelm God Vegeta, which makes sense for him to say that Blue is still beyond his reach. But I want to continue for the fun of it lol]
->Moro also eats a Galick Gun, but the difference shouldn't be evident at all
->Absorbing Goku and Vegeta's energy directly, Moro accesses his Pre-Prime (as I call it) (interestingly enough he comments how Goku and Vegeta were beings that did not exist in his Era and the only threat was Daikaioshin. So given this and Vegeta's statements on Blue, it's possible that Daikaioshin was blue tier already, will make sense later, on top of stealing Moro's abilities)
—Moro >>>> Namekian Savior (ig comparable to Saonel or Pirina (below God tier) given how they admired U7 Namekian in the face of Piccolo which could mean dozens of U7 assimilated Namekians ≈ the entire U6 Namek race assimilated. Their numbers shouldn't be drastically bigger, and this whole thing makes sense)
->Vegeta saying that Moro got stronger may mean that he got a tiny bit stronger, or he doesn't know that he absorbed his and Goku's energies while passed out. I go with the second option)
—Pre-Prime Moro < Powered Up Buu (Buu enters a powered up state which is probably a trigger from Daikaioshin's memories and is on even terms with Moro. But that's also given his abilities as Buu, which eventually overwhelm Moro)
->Moro powers up but states that if he was at full strength or could absorb the entire planet, that would help him win. But Buu says that he isn't anything compared to him.
->Porunga restores Moro's magic (only hax, no strength)
—Daikaioshin < Moro (who absorbs more of Namek's energy and can take on Daikaioshin)
->Moro eats one of Daikaioshin's attacks (Daikaioshin doesn't have the same strength as he used to, per Moro. Given what I said a while back, he now scales off to Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta, but his actual power must be above that, hense Moro's statements earlier in the arc) (as for Vegeta saying that Perfected Blue will get the job done, we can say that up until now, Blue tier was around half that power. Hense why Daikaioshin performs like that and why Moro does as well)
[at this point it is probably specified more or less that Vegeta's early arc statements reffered to the full potential of Blue and not the form itself. Which is why despite Daikaioshin being above God and Moro having powered up enough to be above God too, Blue is still hinted to get the job done]
->Moro absorbs more energy when the prisoners fight Goku and Vegeta and eats it in the next chapter, reaching his Prime
->He then absorbs Zoon's energy. A good planet in his words, perhaps near Namek's energy
->We can assume that the 3 girls contacted him to absorb the energy from the planet they found too
->2 months pass and despite us seeing some planets, it's unknown how many Moro has consumed. But given how he battles Goku later, he has grown significant
—Prime Moro > Omen and Power Stressed Omen Goku
->Albeit he needed to show his true strength
—Prime Moro > Blue Evolution Spirit Control Vegeta (Vegeta with Spirit Fission performs very well tho)
->Moro gets drained once and his strength falls below Vegeta's. His blows have impact.
->A second drain pushes Moro to the edge
->The third drain has Moro on his knees
->Moro eats 7-3 and restores his power at max, defeating Vegeta

To sum up now (a scale):

Namekians Savior = 0.01 (it doesn't rly matter if it's a highball or not)

18 = 0.02
Piccolo = 0.02
SS3 Goku = 0.03
17 = 0.04
Gohan = 0.05

7-3 = 0.05
(Moro powers, energy absorbed) = 0.1

Saganbo = 0.01
Slightly Empowered = 0.1
Empowered = 1
Powerhouse = 2

Buu (Powered Up)/Daikaioshin = 2.5

God Vegeta (and Goku)= 1
Blue Vegeta (Normal) = 3
Blue Vegeta (Perfected/Full potential) = 5
Blue Evolved Vegeta = 120
Omen Goku = 150
Blue Evolved Vegeta (after Spirit Training) = 165
Power Stressed Omen Goku = 300

Elder Moro = 0.7
(Namek used for attacks) = 5+
(Namek power absorbed #1) = 1.5
(Galick Gun eaten) = 1.6
Pre-Prime (initial) (Goku and Vegeta energy absorbed) = 2
(kinda powered up & magic restored) = 2.3
(Namek power absorbed #2) = 3
(Daikaioshin attack eaten) = 3.1
Prime (initial) (Namek power absorbed #3) = >3.1, 4.5 (?)
(Zoon power absorbed) = 5
(the Planet the 3 girls found was possibly absorbed) = 6
(unknown number of planets eaten, after 2 months) = 300+
(drained #1) = 100 (?)
(drained #2) = 50 (?)
(drained #3) = 2 (?)
7-Moro-3 = equal or greater to his peak Prime

[God]

Piccolo = 0.02
17 = 0.04

Gohan = 0.05
7-3 = 0.05
(Moro powers, energy absorbed) = 0.1

SS3 Goku = 0.03
Saganbo = 0.01
Slightly Empowered = 0.1

Piccolo below 17 even though he was fighting Saganbo while 17 was in the background, all beat up, and commented that they were outmatched?
Gohan equal to Seven-Three even though Seven-Three didn't land a single hit on Gohan?
Also I don't know if by "slightly empowered" you mean the initial strength Moro gave to all the prisoners or not, but if not this is yet another absurdity considering Saganbo beat SS3 Goku and is above him.

Really questioning if we even read the same manga or not.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Piccolo = 0.02
17 = 0.04

Gohan = 0.05
7-3 = 0.05
(Moro powers, energy absorbed) = 0.1

SS3 Goku = 0.03
Saganbo = 0.01
Slightly Empowered = 0.1

Piccolo below 17 even though he was fighting Saganbo while 17 was in the background, all beat up, and commented that they were outmatched?
Gohan equal to Seven-Three even though Seven-Three didn't land a single hit on Gohan?
Also I don't know if by "slightly empowered" you mean the initial strength Moro gave to all the prisoners or not, but if not this is yet another absurdity considering Saganbo beat SS3 Goku and is above him.

Really questioning if we even read the same manga or not.

Added those for fun. They don't matter. Change them, do whatever you want with them if you don't like them dude.

Moro is the one I wanted to research.

[God]

Piccolo = 0.02
17 = 0.04

Gohan = 0.05
7-3 = 0.05
(Moro powers, energy absorbed) = 0.1

SS3 Goku = 0.03
Saganbo = 0.01
Slightly Empowered = 0.1

Piccolo below 17 even though he was fighting Saganbo while 17 was in the background, all beat up, and commented that they were outmatched?
Gohan equal to Seven-Three even though Seven-Three didn't land a single hit on Gohan?
Also I don't know if by "slightly empowered" you mean the initial strength Moro gave to all the prisoners or not, but if not this is yet another absurdity considering Saganbo beat SS3 Goku and is above him.

Really questioning if we even read the same manga or not.

Added those for fun. They don't matter. Change them, do whatever you want with them if you don't like them dude.

Moro is the one I wanted to research.

Your research is really put under scrutiny if you believe 17 > Piccolo (despite the manga showing otherwise) and Gohan = Seven-Three (despite the manga showing otherwise).

[Grand Marshal 1]

Piccolo below 17 even though he was fighting Saganbo while 17 was in the background, all beat up, and commented that they were outmatched?
Gohan equal to Seven-Three even though Seven-Three didn't land a single hit on Gohan?
Also I don't know if by "slightly empowered" you mean the initial strength Moro gave to all the prisoners or not, but if not this is yet another absurdity considering Saganbo beat SS3 Goku and is above him.

Really questioning if we even read the same manga or not.

Added those for fun. They don't matter. Change them, do whatever you want with them if you don't like them dude.

Moro is the one I wanted to research.

Your research is really put under scrutiny if you believe 17 > Piccolo (despite the manga showing otherwise) and Gohan = Seven-Three (despite the manga showing otherwise).

I didn't pay attention to them. I didn't care. That's all. Be my guest and believe it. I don't doubt it. I just included them for appearances.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I've been reading earlier chapters of the arc and started thinking about something about the battle between God Vegeta and Moro.

Moro said at the height of his power, someone like God Vegeta would've been an insect to him. Despite being old and weakened, Moro still appeared to be in God Vegeta's league--though it required real effort on his part.

It's really hard to tell how strong Moro is early on. Feasting on Goku and Vegeta helped him grow tremendously, but he was still far inferior to Boo. Boo later says that Moro's magic power being restored isn't the same as his raw power, which is why he's going to try and eat Namek. We do see Moro pummel Dai Kaioshin with ease, so that alone shows us that Moro did indeed become quite powerful with the return of his magic. He also consumed some of Namek, though there was still a lot of energy left after all of that.

Despite his magic power being restored, it's stated that the Full-Power of Super Saiyan Blue is undoubtedly superior to Moro.

So these questions came to mind: is the jump from God to Blue that significant to have Vegeta go from having his hands full with weakened Moro to not being worried about Moro with the full-extent of his magic? Or was Moro's power increase via his restored magic really not that impressive overall?

These are all thoughts I just felt like putting down.

Imo the increase in power was just not impressive. The jump from God to Blue can't and shouldn't change now, or again, in any media.

It went down like this for me:

—Elder Moro < God Vegeta
->with a little bit of magic and energy manipulation, he evens the stage (he takes off his tunic)
—Moro using Namek for attacks < Blue Evolution Vegeta
->Moro proceeds to power up by absorbing Namek's energy
–Elder Moro (Powered Up) < Blue (according to Vegeta)
[basically what you questioned. Moro grew stronger in this instance but not enough to overcome the gap between God and Blue. Besides, it's safe to assume that he possesses the same power than Namek granted him to overwhelm God Vegeta, which makes sense for him to say that Blue is still beyond his reach. But I want to continue for the fun of it lol]
->Moro also eats a Galick Gun, but the difference shouldn't be evident at all
->Absorbing Goku and Vegeta's energy directly, Moro accesses his Pre-Prime (as I call it) (interestingly enough he comments how Goku and Vegeta were beings that did not exist in his Era and the only threat was Daikaioshin. So given this and Vegeta's statements on Blue, it's possible that Daikaioshin was blue tier already, will make sense later, on top of stealing Moro's abilities)
—Moro >>>> Namekian Savior (ig comparable to Saonel or Pirina (below God tier) given how they admired U7 Namekian in the face of Piccolo which could mean dozens of U7 assimilated Namekians ≈ the entire U6 Namek race assimilated. Their numbers shouldn't be drastically bigger, and this whole thing makes sense)
->Vegeta saying that Moro got stronger may mean that he got a tiny bit stronger, or he doesn't know that he absorbed his and Goku's energies while passed out. I go with the second option)
—Pre-Prime Moro < Powered Up Buu (Buu enters a powered up state which is probably a trigger from Daikaioshin's memories and is on even terms with Moro. But that's also given his abilities as Buu, which eventually overwhelm Moro)
->Moro powers up but states that if he was at full strength or could absorb the entire planet, that would help him win. But Buu says that he isn't anything compared to him.
->Porunga restores Moro's magic (only hax, no strength)
—Daikaioshin < Moro (who absorbs more of Namek's energy and can take on Daikaioshin)
->Moro eats one of Daikaioshin's attacks (Daikaioshin doesn't have the same strength as he used to, per Moro. Given what I said a while back, he now scales off to Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta, but his actual power must be above that, hense Moro's statements earlier in the arc) (as for Vegeta saying that Perfected Blue will get the job done, we can say that up until now, Blue tier was around half that power. Hense why Daikaioshin performs like that and why Moro does as well)
[at this point it is probably specified more or less that Vegeta's early arc statements reffered to the full potential of Blue and not the form itself. Which is why despite Daikaioshin being above God and Moro having powered up enough to be above God too, Blue is still hinted to get the job done]
->Moro absorbs more energy when the prisoners fight Goku and Vegeta and eats it in the next chapter, reaching his Prime
->He then absorbs Zoon's energy. A good planet in his words, perhaps near Namek's energy
->We can assume that the 3 girls contacted him to absorb the energy from the planet they found too
->2 months pass and despite us seeing some planets, it's unknown how many Moro has consumed. But given how he battles Goku later, he has grown significant
—Prime Moro > Omen and Power Stressed Omen Goku
->Albeit he needed to show his true strength
—Prime Moro > Blue Evolution Spirit Control Vegeta (Vegeta with Spirit Fission performs very well tho)
->Moro gets drained once and his strength falls below Vegeta's. His blows have impact.
->A second drain pushes Moro to the edge
->The third drain has Moro on his knees
->Moro eats 7-3 and restores his power at max, defeating Vegeta

To sum up now (a scale):

Namekians Savior = 0.01 (it doesn't rly matter if it's a highball or not)

18 = 0.02
Piccolo = 0.02
SS3 Goku = 0.03
17 = 0.04
Gohan = 0.05

7-3 = 0.05
(Moro powers, energy absorbed) = 0.1

Saganbo = 0.01
Slightly Empowered = 0.1
Empowered = 1
Powerhouse = 2

Buu (Powered Up)/Daikaioshin = 2.5

God Vegeta (and Goku)= 1
Blue Vegeta (Normal) = 3
Blue Vegeta (Perfected/Full potential) = 5
Blue Evolved Vegeta = 120
Omen Goku = 150
Blue Evolved Vegeta (after Spirit Training) = 165
Power Stressed Omen Goku = 300

Elder Moro = 0.7
(Namek used for attacks) = 5+
(Namek power absorbed #1) = 1.5
(Galick Gun eaten) = 1.6
Pre-Prime (initial) (Goku and Vegeta energy absorbed) = 2
(kinda powered up & magic restored) = 2.3
(Namek power absorbed #2) = 3
(Daikaioshin attack eaten) = 3.1
Prime (initial) (Namek power absorbed #3) = >3.1, 4.5 (?)
(Zoon power absorbed) = 5
(the Planet the 3 girls found was possibly absorbed) = 6
(unknown number of planets eaten, after 2 months) = 300+
(drained #1) = 100 (?)
(drained #2) = 50 (?)
(drained #3) = 2 (?)
7-Moro-3 = equal or greater to his peak Prime

Love this post. You really went in-depth with the breakdowns.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I've been reading earlier chapters of the arc and started thinking about something about the battle between God Vegeta and Moro.

Moro said at the height of his power, someone like God Vegeta would've been an insect to him. Despite being old and weakened, Moro still appeared to be in God Vegeta's league--though it required real effort on his part.

It's really hard to tell how strong Moro is early on. Feasting on Goku and Vegeta helped him grow tremendously, but he was still far inferior to Boo. Boo later says that Moro's magic power being restored isn't the same as his raw power, which is why he's going to try and eat Namek. We do see Moro pummel Dai Kaioshin with ease, so that alone shows us that Moro did indeed become quite powerful with the return of his magic. He also consumed some of Namek, though there was still a lot of energy left after all of that.

Despite his magic power being restored, it's stated that the Full-Power of Super Saiyan Blue is undoubtedly superior to Moro.

So these questions came to mind: is the jump from God to Blue that significant to have Vegeta go from having his hands full with weakened Moro to not being worried about Moro with the full-extent of his magic? Or was Moro's power increase via his restored magic really not that impressive overall?

These are all thoughts I just felt like putting down.

Considering that Mastered Super Saiyan Blue is fighting on an equal footing with a fusion (in which one of the components was already Blue tier) and a candidate for God of Destruction, then the gap between God and Blue is definitely big. And between God and Blue Evolution (used against Moro) it's even bigger

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Considering that Mastered Super Saiyan Blue is fighting on an equal footing with a fusion (in which one of the components was already Blue tier) and a candidate for God of Destruction, then the gap between God and Blue is definitely big. And between God and Blue Evolution (used against Moro) it's even bigger

This leads me to another question:

Spoiler:

Arak says this about God Goku and Toppo. How do you interpret that comment?

Because this Goku is basically as strong as Vegeta, and we saw Beerus easily end the fight by slamming Vegeta into the ground. I understand Beerus' whole, "It'll take you a million years to become my rival" is hyperbole. It just makes me wonder how significant the difference between Beerus and Goku/Vegeta really is.

[Koitsukai]

Buu (Powered Up)/Daikaioshin = 2.5

God Vegeta (and Goku)= 1
Blue Vegeta (Normal) = 3
Blue Vegeta (Perfected/Full potential) = 5
Blue Evolved Vegeta = 120
Omen Goku = 150
Blue Evolved Vegeta (after Spirit Training) = 165
Power Stressed Omen Goku = 300

Elder Moro = 0.7
(Namek used for attacks) = 5+
(Namek power absorbed #1) = 1.5
(Galick Gun eaten) = 1.6
Pre-Prime (initial) (Goku and Vegeta energy absorbed) = 2
(kinda powered up & magic restored) = 2.3
(Namek power absorbed #2) = 3
(Daikaioshin attack eaten) = 3.1
Prime (initial) (Namek power absorbed #3) = >3.1, 4.5 (?)
(Zoon power absorbed) = 5
(the Planet the 3 girls found was possibly absorbed) = 6
(unknown number of planets eaten, after 2 months) = 300+
(drained #1) = 100 (?)
(drained #2) = 50 (?)
(drained #3) = 2 (?)
7-Moro-3 = equal or greater to his peak Prime

This works, yes. I would lower Moro using Namek's power though, Blue Vegeta(or did he go straight to SSBE?) had no problem overcoming that. Even his god form was somewhat hanging in there, but I think you make a pretty accurate Moro analysis during the Namek encounter and what follows.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Buu (Powered Up)/Daikaioshin = 2.5

God Vegeta (and Goku)= 1
Blue Vegeta (Normal) = 3
Blue Vegeta (Perfected/Full potential) = 5
Blue Evolved Vegeta = 120
Omen Goku = 150
Blue Evolved Vegeta (after Spirit Training) = 165
Power Stressed Omen Goku = 300

Elder Moro = 0.7
(Namek used for attacks) = 5+
(Namek power absorbed #1) = 1.5
(Galick Gun eaten) = 1.6
Pre-Prime (initial) (Goku and Vegeta energy absorbed) = 2
(kinda powered up & magic restored) = 2.3
(Namek power absorbed #2) = 3
(Daikaioshin attack eaten) = 3.1
Prime (initial) (Namek power absorbed #3) = >3.1, 4.5 (?)
(Zoon power absorbed) = 5
(the Planet the 3 girls found was possibly absorbed) = 6
(unknown number of planets eaten, after 2 months) = 300+
(drained #1) = 100 (?)
(drained #2) = 50 (?)
(drained #3) = 2 (?)
7-Moro-3 = equal or greater to his peak Prime

This works, yes. I would lower Moro using Namek's power though, Blue Vegeta(or did he go straight to SSBE?) had no problem overcoming that. Even his god form was somewhat hanging in there, but I think you make a pretty accurate Moro analysis during the Namek encounter and what follows.

Thx I appreciate it!

He went straight Evo. Which kinda doesn't make sense at first thought, but we can argue that Moro using Namek for attacks was his power at the time with all 3 Namek powerups he got later combined, hense why this was the case. 5+ was the least I could give it given Perfected Blue is below Evo.

But ig less can work too. I just thought that unlike Evo, God Vegeta didn't even go on the offensive and chose to avoid all attacks, which may mean that they were lethal for his level. Maybe a 4.5 times God would work as being near Perfected Blue levels and enough to still have God Vegeta try that much.

[Miracles]

Because this Goku is basically as strong as Vegeta, and we saw Beerus easily end the fight by slamming Vegeta into the ground. I understand Beerus' whole, "It'll take you a million years to become my rival" is hyperbole. It just makes me wonder how significant the difference between Beerus and Goku/Vegeta really is.

It shows that Battle power among gods vary. Beerus told Vegeta it would take him a long time to be his rival. However, he told him he could be a candidate for god in another universe. So the statement about Goku/Toppo being at the level of gods is pretty accurate. Since we already surpassed one god in Belmond and another god level character in Jiren already.

[GodVegetto91]

Old Moro was nowhere near SSJ God Vegeta in terms of sheer power. The only reason he fared aswell as he did against him was because of his magic and nothing more. He used the planet’s own energy to attack Vegeta (which strangely is powerful enough to overcome God Vegeta, but hey! Writing) So Old Moro never used his own power to fight on par with or overpower God Vegeta.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Considering that Mastered Super Saiyan Blue is fighting on an equal footing with a fusion (in which one of the components was already Blue tier) and a candidate for God of Destruction, then the gap between God and Blue is definitely big. And between God and Blue Evolution (used against Moro) it's even bigger

This leads me to another question:

Spoiler:

Arak says this about God Goku and Toppo. How do you interpret that comment?

Because this Goku is basically as strong as Vegeta, and we saw Beerus easily end the fight by slamming Vegeta into the ground. I understand Beerus' whole, "It'll take you a million years to become my rival" is hyperbole. It just makes me wonder how significant the difference between Beerus and Goku/Vegeta really is.

I think that just reinforces what we saw in BoG. That Super Saiyan God is the gateway to the realm of the Gods and a transformation powerful enough to be worthy of a fight against Gods of Destruction. Not enough to get close to their true power, but to at least make them put in some effort.

I would say that in the anime the gap between God and Blue is also big. Especially considering that heavily suppressed Jiren was able to stop SSG Goku's blows with one finger, while SSB Goku was able to fly Jiren across several mountains with a single punch. Not to mention the fight against Kefla (where the gap between God and Blue proved to be as big as the base Kefla and Super Saiyan Berserker Kefla)

[Grand Marshal 1]

Old Moro was nowhere near SSJ God Vegeta in terms of sheer power. The only reason he fared aswell as he did against him was because of his magic and nothing more. He used the planet’s own energy to attack Vegeta (which strangely is powerful enough to overcome God Vegeta, but hey! Writing) So Old Moro never used his own power to fight on par with or overpower God Vegeta.

Can't disagree, but seeing Moro simply performing like this with no powering up sequence, tells me that although weaker to God Vegeta, he is near his level. He completely thrashed SS2 Vegeta, even if you count that his telekinesis was magic based.



So being below God a bit makes the most sense. I also support the idea that there is no need for absolutely massive gaps in power to change the tide of battle. And even if they end up being massive, characters can still deal damage. This is the case of the former here.

So yeah, Elder Moro never overpowered Vegeta. But he wasn't far from his league.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Can't disagree, but seeing Moro simply performing like this with no powering up sequence, tells me that although weaker to God Vegeta, he is near his level. He completely thrashed SS2 Vegeta, even if you count that his telekinesis was magic based.



So being below God a bit makes the most sense. I also support the idea that there is no need for absolutely massive gaps in power to change the tide of battle. And even if they end up being massive, characters can still deal damage. This is the case of the former here.

So yeah, Elder Moro never overpowered Vegeta. But he wasn't far from his league.

Yeah, Elder Moro's power was definitely close to SSG Vegeta. If he weren't he probably wouldn't even be able to react to Vegeta's speed and defend his attacks using Namek's energy

[Xeno Goku Black]

It's when people start making math equations out of it is when I lose interest.

Moro doesn't sound seem as strong as Broly or Jiren just yet at least.