Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[brett wheeler]

So how many God's of Destruction could Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku beat at the same time now? All of them? All of them minus Beerus? A few? One?

Seeing as Beerus took out a few and was holding his own against several of them at once with his imperfect Ultra Instinct....you'd think Goku could probably take them all on and do quite well.

Especially considering that Full Power Jiren would be stronger than a God of Destruction by a fair amount and he was child's play compared to Goku at that point.

well if all the GoDs teamed up I say goku would have one hell of a fight, honestly it could go either way there goku MUI is strong but this is taking on 12 GoDs at once here, MUI could maby do it but no way would it be easy if he can.

[Kenneth La Torre]

@bullza
Btw, my comment wasnt directed at you, you just gave me the idea by mentioning beetus taking on the hakaishins. My comment is for everyone

[Bullza]

Beerus along with Quitela were the last two God's standing so they each must have taken out a couple, he at least knocked out Rumshhi.

He's still one of the top characters in the series. Outside of Zeno and the Angels, only Ultra Instinct Goku and Jiren are clearly above him. Super Saiyan Vegito is a maybe and Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta....is at best on par too.

[JazzMazz]

So uh, can we all agree that 17 really isn't as powerful as the level characters.

I mean, a weakened Jiren, who was only a match for a weakened Freeza was able to toss him aside extremely easily.

So I guess that suggests something about something.

[dbgtFO]

So uh, can we all agree that 17 really isn't as powerful as the level characters.

I mean, a weakened Jiren, who was only a match for a weakened Freeza was able to toss him aside extremely easily.

So I guess that suggests something about something.

Classic Toei power inconsistency for the sake of a cool fight.
Nothing more nothing less.
I don't really know where I'd put him anyways.

[picc]

So uh, can we all agree that 17 really isn't as powerful as the level characters.

I mean, a weakened Jiren, who was only a match for a weakened Freeza was able to toss him aside extremely easily.

So I guess that suggests something about something.

Classic Toei power inconsistency for the sake of a cool fight.
Nothing more nothing less.
I don't really know where I'd put him anyways.

Exactly this.

Nothing means anything with them. Just whatever's most captivating to 8 year olds at the moment.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Much like a few other people, I'm pretty sure that Vegeta's power against Toppo was just a temporary power up much like his previous rage/pride boosts. His normal SSJBE power is equal to SSJBKKx20.

It was not temporary. If it was, then Vegeta would still be weaker than Toppo after EP 126, but in EP 127, Jiren confirms that Vegeta is stronger when he says he understood why he was able to defeat Toppo

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Does the original Japanese context say different?

Because I don't interpret the Crunchyroll subs the same way. I find that Jiren is merely noting how Vegeta used his newfound ESSB power effectively against Hakaishin Toppo without resorting to giving up everything for more power and is trying to do that against him as well.

In the same vein, I don't view the second half of Vegeta's fight with Toppo to be an instance of him increasing his overall strength, merely strengthening his resolve and giving him the momentum needed to land sharper and heavier blows with concentrated power before ultimately needing a limit-breaking Final Explosion to completely defeat Toppo.

[Helios518]

Much like a few other people, I'm pretty sure that Vegeta's power against Toppo was just a temporary power up much like his previous rage/pride boosts. His normal SSJBE power is equal to SSJBKKx20.

It was not temporary. If it was, then Vegeta would still be weaker than Toppo after EP 126, but in EP 127, Jiren confirms that Vegeta is stronger when he says he understood why he was able to defeat Toppo

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Does the original Japanese context say different?

Because I don't interpret the Crunchyroll subs the same way. I find that Jiren is merely noting how Vegeta used his newfound ESSB power effectively against Hakaishin Toppo without resorting to giving up everything for more power and is trying to do that against him as well.

This is also how I interpreted the line as well.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Much like a few other people, I'm pretty sure that Vegeta's power against Toppo was just a temporary power up much like his previous rage/pride boosts. His normal SSJBE power is equal to SSJBKKx20.

It was not temporary. If it was, then Vegeta would still be weaker than Toppo after EP 126, but in EP 127, Jiren confirms that Vegeta is stronger when he says he understood why he was able to defeat Toppo

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Does the original Japanese context say different?

Because I don't interpret the Crunchyroll subs the same way. I find that Jiren is merely noting how Vegeta used his newfound ESSB power effectively against Hakaishin Toppo without resorting to giving up everything for more power and is trying to do that against him as well.

In the same vein, I don't view the second half of Vegeta's fight with Toppo to be an instance of him increasing his overall strength, merely strengthening his resolve and giving him the momentum needed to land sharper and heavier blows with concentrated power before ultimately needing a limit-breaking Final Explosion to completely defeat Toppo.

Before this speech, Jiren praises the strength of Vegeta's punch. If he felt the power of this punch and said he understands why Vegeta defeated Toppo, then he is confirming that Vegeta is stronger

In the first part of the fight, Vegeta could not hit any effective blow to Toppo, and he was clearly already determined enough, saying that to win the SDB and keep his promise, he could not lose. In the second part, he dominated Toppo completely and stopped the Hakai, this was clearly a power up.

In any case, Vegeta's full power (Final Explosion) was able to surpass Toppo's full power with Hakai (a technique that also has as one of its functions to cancel any type of energy)

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

And that's why I subscribe to the strength of one's blows and their weight/momentum, rather the strength of the person in their entirety.

===

I can tell that this is just one of those things no one can ever agree on, like many strength debates in this franchise.

At least we'll always have this in the downtime between productions

[Raphael_Z]

It's way too early to judge the Gods of Destructions' power considering that so far we've only seen them in their base form so to speak. Also, who's to say that Beerus won't be able to awaken Ultra Instinct Mastered if he were to fight against Goku? Goku went from being way below Beerus to being equal/superior to Beerus thanks to UIM. Now imagine if Beerus awakened UIM...

[Kenneth La Torre]

You guys realise that when jiren and goku have their rematch, they both will be much more powerful than they were at the end of the tournament of power, right?

[jeffbr92]

You guys realise that when jiren and goku have their rematch, they both will be much more powerful than they were at the end of the tournament of power, right?

Don't get your hopes up as the same as said about Hit a time ago.

[Kenneth La Torre]

You guys realise that when jiren and goku have their rematch, they both will be much more powerful than they were at the end of the tournament of power, right?

Don't get your hopes up as the same as said about Hit a time ago.

Hit did get much more powerful tho. That why jiren will come back more powerful than ever.

[jeffbr92]

Don't think so, they probably will introduce someone many times stronger than Jiren, that's a common DB trope: the new always surpass the old.

[Simere]

I'll be surprised to even see Jiren again, much less have a rematch.

[Helios518]

I'll be surprised to even see Jiren again, much less have a rematch.

Honestly, I don't doubt seeing him again, but I'll be really surprised if he's in the 2018 movie.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Of course we will see him again. Yall guys acting as if you didnt see episode 131. A rematch is guaranteed.

[Kenneth La Torre]

And a villian manytimes stronger than him i gind unlikel until a couple arcs after his introduction.
Toriyama is still threating hakaishin level very seriously.

[Marlowe89]

I'll be surprised to even see Jiren again, much less have a rematch.

Yeah, the only way I can really see it happening is if Goku ventures to Universe 11 for some reason.

And a villian manytimes stronger than him i gind unlikel until a couple arcs after his introduction.
Toriyama is still threating hakaishin level very seriously.

Just some helpful advice, but you know that you can just use the edit button, right? There's no need to clutter the thread with needless Jiren hypotheticals when you can just throw all of this nonsense into a single post.