Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:56 pm

Manga Piccolo should be at least far above SSJ3 tier given his great feats against Saganbo and Moro.

DBS Super Hero Piccolo is probably between Base and SSJ tier, since his power level didn't increase much in that continuity due to not training with Ultimate Gohan since Moro apparently didn't happen there. In the Super Hero continuity he only spent time training by himself for all of those 3 years between Broly and Super Hero (you know, his usual meditating), so his power kept being in the same tier since we know Piccolo only makes big gains when he trains with someone else.

It's like Goku and Vegeta, who don't have UI and UE in Super Hero while they do have them in the manga. Piccolo is the same case here, in Super Hero he managed to reach God tier after his potential was unlocked and got his two new forms. We'll just need to wait how the manga will handle this.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:06 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:32 pmThe issue with this Base Saiyans thing is, Toriyama writes Beerus saying Goku can’t beat Freeza and we take it exactly as it is, but Kaioshin, Babidi and Dabra all think Kaioshin can’t handle Pui Pui or Yakon and it’s supposed to just be a huge misunderstanding? What kind of double standard is that? Between these two contradictory lines, I’m obviously taking the one that makes the most sense over the one from a character who consistently lies to motivate Goku throughout the saga.
The same Kaioshin who can hold Super Saiyan 2 Gohan for a time. I guess either Gohan is weaker than Pui Pui and Yakon or *laughs nervously* this is indeed a huge misunderstanding, guys! hehehe! *laughs nervously*

Dragon Ball is full of statements not meant to be taken exactly as they are, characters themselves are allowed to assume and to be wrong. They are not infallible. "hurr but they haven't been corrected yet durr", yeah, well, a lot of Saiyans died knowing Super Saiyan is just a legend or that their planet was destroyed by meteor, not by Freeza. Nobody told them the real stuff, so dying under a false knowledge is nothing new here, let alone living under those circumstances. Old Kaioshin probably still thinks Potara fusion has no limits as he hasn't been corrected yet.

Not that Beerus is wrong, mind you. It's people being literal of the presentation of the verb in the present form, instead of reading it in the past. All of this because of semantics (and because people don't want to acknowledge the purpose of the Beerus and Whis talking while the former is eating breakfast and the latter showing Goku fighting Freeza scene). I don't think we can have a worse double standard situation than the Android 17 one.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:38 pm

My personal take is that Gohan, while rusty, retains his anime-centric power when he actually gets invested in the fight and is on-par with Goku and Vegeta in similar forms.

In that vein, him and Piccolo are similarly strong in their base forms, but Gohan has Super Saiyan 1 and 2 to pepper in-between Ultimate while Piccolo has to jump straight to his Ultimate state.

But again, that's just my basic read on assuming that the movies factor in anime-watching audiences and thus the anime, even if Toriyama writes them a bit differently than either main continuity. I'm neither fully right nor fully wrong on that front; there isn't much absolutely concrete to say with absolute certainty.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:36 pm

Skar wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:41 am
Most of these various attempts to discredit it imply that Toriyama or Toei intended us to read between the lines to determine this statement was wrong rather than not include the line in the first place to avoid confusion or have someone correct Beerus. I'm going to agree to disagree since I don't want to go through those again.
I don't see how understanding context means "reading between the lines". We are expected to do the same thing when Piccolo concedes defeat to Kaioshin. But anyways, your argument is fair. Thanks for the discussion.

On topic, I would say Manga Piccolo is likely above Android 17 and fairly close to Ultimate Gohan given his performance against Saganbo relative to 17's. That would naturally place them within Blue tier but given how Goku had progressed during the Moro Arc, I can see how both could be weaker than God Goku. At the very least, they should be near God Goku IMO. In respect to the anime, Piccolo seems below the Base Saiyans given that he plays back-up during Gohan's fight against Base Goku. Then, Piccolo can no longer keep up once Goku and Gohan begin to dial it up.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:57 pm

dragonball0900 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:56 pm Manga Piccolo should be at least far above SSJ3 tier given his great feats against Saganbo and Moro.
May I question why SS3 and not SSG or SSB? If we really should consider Piccolo to be somewhat close to Ultimate Gohan, he should definitely be up there with SSB level, as 17 is. I don’t understand the logic behind thinking he could be SS3 or SSG level as Gohan himself is far beyond those, based on the opponents he faced in ToP and Moro arcs. Of course, the problem in this reasoning is that 18 is also there in the fights against Saganbo and Moro, and since Gohan and Piccolo fail to do anything better than 17 and 18, you can probably call those anti-feats for Piccolo.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:19 pm

Hugo Boss wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:57 pm
dragonball0900 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:56 pm Manga Piccolo should be at least far above SSJ3 tier given his great feats against Saganbo and Moro.
May I question why SS3 and not SSG or SSB? If we really should consider Piccolo to be somewhat close to Ultimate Gohan, he should definitely be up there with SSB level, as 17 is. I don’t understand the logic behind thinking he could be SS3 or SSG level as Gohan himself is far beyond those, based on the opponents he faced in ToP and Moro arcs. Of course, the problem in this reasoning is that 18 is also there in the fights against Saganbo and Moro, and since Gohan and Piccolo fail to do anything better than 17 and 18, you can probably call those anti-feats for Piccolo.
I said SSJ3 as lowballing him and the minimum he could be. He could potentially be far higher around SSG level or even above given he did last a good while against Saganbo, which would certainly not be possible for someone around SSJ tier or lower to do so. It also shows Android 18 was that strong as well if she could keep up too. I have no problems with that since it doesn't contradict anything in the plot, and what happens in the manga has nothing to do with what happens in Super Hero (just look at Goku and Vegeta).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:30 am

Grimlock wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:06 pmDragon Ball is full of statements not meant to be taken exactly as they are, characters themselves are allowed to assume and to be wrong. They are not infallible. "hurr but they haven't been corrected yet durr", yeah, well, a lot of Saiyans died knowing Super Saiyan is just a legend or that their planet was destroyed by meteor, not by Freeza. Nobody told them the real stuff, so dying under a false knowledge is nothing new here, let alone living under those circumstances. Old Kaioshin probably still thinks Potara fusion has no limits as he hasn't been corrected yet.
Are there many other examples of statements that are intended to be wrong and never corrected by anyone? The story addresses why the remaining Saiyans thought a meteor destroyed their planet because Freeza didn't want to reveal the truth to them. Potara was permanent at the time but the retcon means he was wrong about it being permanent for mortals.

I don't understand the double standard. Believing what the story presents isn't the same as liking it or thinking it makes sense. 17's powerup is crazy regardless of how strong base Goku is since he reached the power of Goku's fifth transformation with minimal training. The stronger Goku is in base, the bigger the powerup for 17 would've been.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:49 pm

Skar wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:30 amAre there many other examples of statements that are intended to be wrong and never corrected by anyone?
Don't know, most of what I remember are out-universe issues, that is, retcon. But regardless, the point stands as this is meant to be seen from an in-universe perspective, nobody went to Old Kaioshin and corrected him on the Potara thing as far as we know, so he is still wrong to this very day, for example.

EDIT: Just saw this thread. If it is true, then Freeza is wrong and was never corrected by anyone. Whatever his increase in power was thanks to whatever he did in just four months, his "first form" couldn't possibly have that power level. Then again, there are also those who think that gaining power in base form won't affect the power one will have when they transform, or vice-versa (gaining power in a transformed state won't affect the base power level).
Skar wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:30 amI don't understand the double standard. Believing what the story presents isn't the same as liking it or thinking it makes sense.
Indeed, but then there is having an issue with it or accepting it without having an issue. The latter seems to be the case with a few here. You will even find some "trying to reason" Android 17 power. So if there are those willing to casually accept it, why is it so "baffling" the idea that Goku is stronger than Freeza? Again, the gap between Freeza saga and Movie 14 is bigger than the gap between Cell saga and Universe Survival saga. Not only that, Saiyans get more power than the androids.

If the Android 17 situation is okay but the Goku one isn't, then it's very easy to understand the double standard.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:57 pm

Grimlock wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:49 pmDon't know, most of what I remember are out-universe issues, that is, retcon. But regardless, the point stands as this is meant to be seen from an in-universe perspective, nobody went to Old Kaioshin and corrected him on the Potara thing as far as we know, so he is still wrong to this very day, for example.

EDIT: Just saw this thread. If it is true, then Freeza is wrong and was never corrected by anyone. Whatever his increase in power was thanks to whatever he did in just four months, his "first form" couldn't possibly have that power level. Then again, there are also those who think that gaining power in base form won't affect the power one will have when they transform, or vice-versa (gaining power in a transformed state won't affect the base power level).
Well those would be more of a mistake of the author forgetting something than intentionally writing a character to be wrong. I think saying Toriyama forgetting how strong he had base Goku would be more convincing than arguing he intended for Beerus to be wrong in that moment and didn't have anyone correct him. These are fictional characters so their dialogue isn't spontaneous. The author has to sit down and decide what they're going to say so it's an unlikely they would needlessly confusion the audience with dialogue that the author doesn't intend to be true.
Indeed, but then there is having an issue with it or accepting it without having an issue.
There's always going to be some fans who try to justify any type of writing after it happens. I definitely think 17's power-up needed a better explanation to be more believable but I'm only acknowledging the story presented he reached Blue tier with barely any training. I don't really care how strong base Goku is compared to Freeza so it was nice having a direct statement implying one or the other.

I used the Wafer cards earlier as an example which have Base Goku and Vegeta stronger than Piccolo by Super Hero. I'm fine with believing they're weaker by BoG and surpass base Piccolo some time after during their training with Whis. That's a supplementary source so Toriyama's perspective could be different and he could imply the opposite in another film.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:42 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:32 pm I’ve seen people suggesting the Gammas get stronger as they fight, and it that’s the case then Piccolo comparing them to Goku and Vegeta is even more confusing now. What do you make of that? Just a ballpark estimative from Piccolo’s part?
I can't add much since I don't have the direct statement, but Ultimate Gohan is usually around the same power as a low to mid level SSB in both manga and anime as of the ToP, so logically the Gammas are there and get even stronger by the time Cell Max shows up ... unless Piccolo's statement was made after Cell Max shows up. Either way, comparing them to Goku and Vegeta as SSB seems legit though I'm sure they're not quite as strong as them.
Hugo Boss wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:27 pm Don’t you think a “good fight” is more a matter of opinion than subtext or evidence? Frost is weaker than Super Saiyans and 7-3 is arguably weaker than Frost (Saganbo was the strongest Moro’s henchmen even before the massive power-up he received and he was still weaker than Trunks, according to Vegeta).
I'm not sure why you bring up pre-powered up Saganbo. When he fought Gohan, Piccolo, and the androids he was SSB level. He was strengthened even more when he fought Goku.

So Frost is weaker than the SSJ but he's stronger than their base forms which means about as strong if not stronger than Frieza from RoF who was way stronger in his 1st form than Piccolo and SSJ Gohan during RoF. If Piccolo (manga) can fight that Frost to a stalemate it means he's stronger than 1st Form Frieza > SSJ Gohan > and himself from RoF. It means he is way stronger than SSJ Gohan who isn't just a normal SSJ but a MSSJ. And there's no reason to assume Gohan is as weak as his Cell arc self, since he got additional training in the Buu arc that increased his power prior to the Elder Kai ritual. He could effortlessly wield the Zetto Sword in base while Goku struggled with it. Any power loss would likely revert to a rusty form of that level, not Cell or early Buu arc levels. So by the U6 tourney, Piccolo is well above Buu arc MSSJ level since he can force Frost into a stalemate.

Frost is about as strong or stronger as Frieza's RoF Final Form and so Piccolo, while weaker than that still is able to push himself to fight at that level, which again, is much much higher than SSJ Gohan. In every version of RoF including the movie promo manga by Toyotaro which is unaffiliated with DBS, SSJ Gohan < Base Goku and first form Frieza. I know this arc is missing in the manga, but this power scaling detail is virtually identical in 3 different continuities including the one Toyotaro worked on directly. So I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be the same in the DBS manga.

And 7-3 tanked multiple blows from Ultimate Gohan (post ToP with 2 months of intense training) so there's no way Frost is close to his level unless you think Frost is Kefla/Kale level. This is what I mean when I say your logic takes you to some extreme conclusions. 7-3 was probably not too special when he took Piccolo's power the first time, but he's always shown some great durability feats. Once he took Gohan and Piccolo's power though, it immediately put him at their level offensively with his already impressive durability and infinite stamina. So offensively, he's above Kale/Kefla from ToP when using Gohan's power.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:57 am

BWri wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:42 am Frost is about as strong or stronger as Frieza's RoF Final Form and so Piccolo, while weaker than that still is able to push himself to fight at that level, which again, is much much higher than SSJ Gohan. In every version of RoF including the movie promo manga by Toyotaro which is unaffiliated with DBS, SSJ Gohan < Base Goku and first form Frieza. I know this arc is missing in the manga, but this power scaling detail is virtually identical in 3 different continuities including the one Toyotaro worked on directly. So I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be the same in the DBS manga.
Frost is definitely stronger than FF Freeza from the RoF arc. Goku/Vegeta needed Super Saiyan to fight him.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:23 am

Bwri just opened up a whole new can of worms with that statement.

I would definitely agree that Universe 6 onwards, Piccolo was definitely stronger than SSJ Gohan based on his performance with Frost and he was consistently training since then presumably since that's practically all he does. I don't see any issue with Piccolo having surpassed SSJ2 Gohan. By the time of the Moro Arc, he's holding off Saganbo better than 17 could so he should logically have reached ToP Blue level in the manga.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:54 am

RoF itself is a can of worms that, power-wise, doesn't fit in with neither the manga nor the anime. Funnily enough, it does fit with the movies, since Final Form Freeza also took a brutal beating from SS Broly and was still holding himself well enough to not only go Golden but still last an entire hour against Broly.

Otherwise I just consider RoF an outlier. They used the concept of "Saiyan Beyond God" in the movie (and in the anime, in some lesser arcs), but disregarded it in the major arcs (U6, Future Trunks and Universe Survival, Galactic Prisoner and Granolah the Survivor in the manga) so as to not make the power creep too bizarre.

It is required, too, since if anybody and their mothers could reach a level of power capable of challenging Beerus (i.e. BoG's SSG Goku level), more people would take note of it in-universe.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:04 am

RoF is indeed the outlier but we can't exactly ignore it (though I did for many years). It's true that U6 immediately ignores/retcons RoF's use of SBG. So, SBG is no longer a thing. However, that still leaves us with Goku's base being way stronger than Gohan's SSJ at that point (in 3 continuities) which in turn raises the overall strength of U6's competitors which also raises Piccolo's strength. All is justified at the end of the day. Goku trained with Whis to get that strong, Piccolo also trained and all the U6 fighters are simply that strong.

I don't think anything contradicts everyone listed above including the U6 fighters simply being stronger than ROF SSJ Gohan. Some would say Future Trunks being as strong as he is in comparison to this crazy overpowered Goku makes no logical sense. But, heck, he trained too apparently lol.

We've had all sorts of theories to make this make sense, two base theory, SSJ multipliers being less in Super (which I'm still eyeballing), etc. But I just accept that everyone is much stronger.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:00 am

Pan was born in May 779 so the fight against Freeza took place towards the end of that year then the Champa arc a few days/weeks later. That would be some impressive gains for Piccolo who couldn't surpass any SSJ Gohan in the 12 years since the Cell Games but is able to do it a few days or weeks between RoF and Champa. Training gains aren't consistent but it should be the same regular Earth gravity training he's been doing. It's usually a new method of training that results in a quicker powerup but not the same usual training and this time it happened to be more effective. Does anything imply SSJ Gohan in Super Hero is that much stronger than he was during the Cell Games?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:08 am

It requires to suspend a great deal of disbelief, taking into consideration what happened in RoF.

For starters, people who hit a wall for years have now broken the limits of other people, not just theirs, and reached godhood just like that, in Big Green's case, just doing the same ol same ol... in a few days. Like if there was some kind of SSG mist left in the air on Capsule Corp, and people breathed that and now the power runs through their veins, powering them up in no time.

Frost being the SS version of RoF Freeza actually makes U7 a joke, even base Cabba could take on SSG. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but hardly the authorial intent. What does that say about Trunks, not even having proper meals yet being 400x stronger than RoF Freeza after struggling with Dabura a year ago, and later on being said to have surpassed SS2 Gohan. He should be compared to BoG Beerus at least, why's the author using such an outdated benchmark if everybody is so much stronger?

The THEY MUST BE STRONGER take usually hits a wall, like Piccolo in SH being nothing like what people thought he was in the manga, and when the manga adapts it, Piccolo will not be already a blue tier character that unlocks a new blue level form, he'll be a regular guy with a blue level form or close. It was also the idea about Goku and co and Freeza during the last portion of Z, yet BoG actually had a line that threw a wrench in that, whether you buy it or not.

Even the anime didn't know when to use it, to me it was just a temporary boost that wore off by the time the arcs landed. At least the out-of-universe concept of it did.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:05 pm

There are multiple discrepancies between RoF and the manga (and later, the anime), which I've discussed an untold number of times before in this thread and don't care to go over again. What I will add is that I think it's totally okay to ignore it, only keeping in mind the parts that the Super manga directly references; the manga ignores it, after all. There's more than enough throughout the first few arcs to suggest the base Saiyans only modestly got stronger after the original run in DBS's first half.

As a general rule, I find it helpful to endorse giant leaps only where directly stated or implied by the story. Is it weird that 17 made Blue tier strides while doing next to nothing? Sure, but at least the manga makes that clear, and even jokes about how much of an outlier 17 actually is in that regard. That tells you that characters like him are the exception, not the rule.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:43 pm

BWri wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:42 am I'm not sure why you bring up pre-powered up Saganbo.
The point is that (pre-powered up) Saganbo is the strongest bandit brigade member, which by consequence makes him stronger than default 7-3. The only thing to watch out for is 7-3’s copying ability. Then you have default 7-3 grabbing Piccolo’s neck without him noticing, suggesting Piccolo wasn’t that far off from him. Note that after the time skip, 7-3 uses the stealth ability to grab Piccolo and Gohan’s neck, while in this case he just used quick movement.

So, when you have Trunks above Saganbo and default 7-3, and with Piccolo not that far ahead of either one of them, you can conclude Piccolo and Trunks are probably comparable (at the start of Moro arc’s transition). Of course, Piccolo gets stronger two months later, but this is just to point out how strong he has been until ToP.

In every version of RoF including the movie promo manga by Toyotaro which is unaffiliated with DBS, SSJ Gohan < Base Goku and first form Frieza. I know this arc is missing in the manga, but this power scaling detail is virtually identical in 3 different continuities including the one Toyotaro worked on directly. So I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be the same in the DBS manga.
I think your argument falls apart here because Goku and Freeza were fighting with power similar to that of Super Saiyan God in RoF (Toyotaro ironically is the one that illustrates this better), while against U6 competitors the Saiyans got dialed back down to be slightly stronger than their Boo arc selves. It means Base Goku from RoF is far stronger than SS Goku from Champa arc, and SS Gohan from RoF is probably around rookie SS Cabba and stronger than Frost. Different power structures, different rules. This is a discussion that has been occurring practically every month, everyone commenting on this page has already stated their position, and it’s not necessary to bring them up again.

And 7-3 tanked multiple blows from Ultimate Gohan (post ToP with 2 months of intense training) so there's no way Frost is close to his level unless you think Frost is Kefla/Kale level. This is what I mean when I say your logic takes you to some extreme conclusions. 7-3 was probably not too special when he took Piccolo's power the first time, but he's always shown some great durability feats. Once he took Gohan and Piccolo's power though, it immediately put him at their level offensively with his already impressive durability and infinite stamina. So offensively, he's above Kale/Kefla from ToP when using Gohan's power.
I just checked the manga and 7-3 doesn’t “tank” Gohan’s attacks. He was completely overwhelmed by them. Anyway, in that state 7-3 was stronger than Frost. When I compared them, I was talking about default 7-3, the one that grabbed Piccolo before he had his ability copied. Since Piccolo was weaker than Frost in ToP, I assume there wasn’t a significant difference between his level back then and when he first met 7-3. That’s why I suppose Frost still comes out as the strongest among these 3.

I don’t see the point in using Piccolo feats against 7-3 using copied abilities, since 1. He can’t beat 7-3 with Piccolo’s data, 2. He can’t beat 7-3 with Gohan’s data, and 3. He can’t beat 7-3 using Moro’s data. So, I thought you were talking about default 7-3 all along.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:01 pm

Skar wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:57 pmThe author has to sit down and decide what they're going to say so it's an unlikely they would needlessly confusion the audience with dialogue that the author doesn't intend to be true.
Gogeta says Freeza doesn't know about fusion (true, but only for the movie continuity) after the anime had shown his brief interaction with Gotenks (and possibly Kafla, though we don't know how the events of Universe Survival saga unfolded in the movie continuity).

Bulma and Nappa mentioned Vegeta's brother (true, Vegeta has a brother), a character not many Westerners are familiar with.

So I would say we also have examples of confusing dialogues already.

Remembered one more: Bulma's and Mai's ages in Movie 14. Are they true or are they lying about it?
Skar wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:57 pmI don't really care how strong base Goku is compared to Freeza so it was nice having a direct statement implying one or the other.
"As you are now" isn't as direct as you think it is. You can take it at face value and assume Beerus means the current Goku, or you can associate such line with a prior scene and assume Beerus means Freeza saga Goku. Beerus uses the verb in present form because that's how Goku presents himself at that moment to Beerus, but he could have said "as you were", and no ambiguity would exist.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:04 pm

About 7-3, Granny, who is on the low end of the Ginyu Force spectrum easily disposed of an army of those guys.
This means 7-3 isn't anything out of the ordinary when he's not copying somebody else, but since Granny is using a special technique that seems to allow him to punch above his weight, hitting weakspots and whatnot, 7-3 could be stronger than Granny.

Just how strong, that's anyone's guess. The weakest would be weaker than Granny, so as strong as Recoome or Jeese. The strongest, definitely below Freeza level, probably weaker than Gas.

Now, I don't recall anything implying the OG73 we've seen is any different from the rest of the army, aside of his data, so they should all be equally strong in their "base" state.

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