Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ZombieVito
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:50 am

Hit only got hits in because of his time abilities.

Like, watch the fight please.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hakaishin Liquir » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:51 am

Bullza wrote:
Hakaishin Liquir wrote:In episode 104, we saw Dyspo beating SSG Goku, and then Hit destroyed Dyspo later on in that episode when they were both on an even playing field. The only thing that the Dyspo fight made very clear was that Hit is only SSG level without his techniques, unless you're one of those people who refuses to admit that Final Form Freeza is SSG level.
As I pointed out before.

1. Dyspo punched Hit in the face and Hit was knocked down, injured from the blow. Dyspo punched Golden Frieza in the face and it did not.

2. Dyspo was so fast that Hit couldn't even see him move. Golden Frieza was faster than Dyspo.
Dyspo wasn't going all-out against FF Freeza, which is why Zeno didn't have problems with seeing Dyspo's movements until after he used his Maximum Speed Mode. Also, Hit likely took more damage from Dyspo's first punch than he normally would have since he was off-guard when he got hit. Later on in the episode, we see Hit taking minimal damage from Dyspo's hits, and in 111, Hit was able to tank several punches from Jiren. Besides, like I said before, Hit's base stats are below SSB, but his techniques put him on SSB+ level.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PushoverMediaCritic » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:46 am

Here's my personal tier ranking of Super characters (went a little overboard, meant to only include the godly characters, ended up including damn near everyone):

-Slightly above Hakaishin: Jiren, UIO Goku, SS2 Kafla
-Hakaishin: the Hakaishin, GoD Toppo, SSB Vegetto, Beerus, Spirit Sword Trunks
-Slightly below Hakaishin: SS1 Kafla, SSB KKx20 Goku, SSB2 Vegeta, Fused Zamasu
-Mid KK SSB: Anilaza
-Low KK SSB: Koichiarator, Super Dyspo, Hit, base Toppo
-High SSB: SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, SSR Goku Black, True Golden Freeza
-Mid SSB: Golden Freeza in 'F', SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in the U6 tournament and the start of the Future Trunks arc
-Low SSB: SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in 'F', Gohan, SSI Future Trunks, Android 17, Gigantic Bergamo
-High SSG: base Kafla, Saonel, Pirina, Maji-Kayo, Dyspo
-Mid SSG: SSG Goku, Future Zamasu
-Low SSG: MBSS Kale
-Between SSG and SBG: BSS Kale
-SBG: SBG Goku, SBG Vegeta, SBG Goku Black, FF Freeza, Kahseral
-SS3: Fit Buu, SS3 Goku, Obuni, Android 18, Giant Ribrianne
-SS2: Piccolo, SS2 Saiyans, CBSS Kale, Present Zamasu
-Between SS2 and SS1: Magetta, Wrecking Ball Monna, Mr. Buu, Rubalt
-SS1: SS1 Saiyans, Super Ribrianne, Frost
-Between SS1 and base: Both Kamikaze Fireballs teams, Jimmies, U Katopesla, the rest of the Pride Troopers, Napapa, ToP mooks
-Base: base Saiyans, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Buff Roshi, almost all of U9, the U3 robots, more ToP mooks
-Slightly below base: Roshi, the rest of the mooks

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:12 am

PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Here's my personal tier ranking of Super characters (went a little overboard, meant to only include the godly characters, ended up including damn near everyone):

-Slightly above Hakaishin: Jiren, UIO Goku, SS2 Kafla
-Hakaishin: the Hakaishin, GoD Toppo, SSB Vegetto, Beerus, Spirit Sword Trunks
-Slightly below Hakaishin: SS1 Kafla, SSB KKx20 Goku, SSB2 Vegeta, Fused Zamasu
-Mid KK SSB: Anilaza
-Low KK SSB: Koichiarator, Super Dyspo, Hit, base Toppo
-High SSB: SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, SSR Goku Black, True Golden Freeza
-Mid SSB: Golden Freeza in 'F', SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in the U6 tournament and the start of the Future Trunks arc
-Low SSB: SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in 'F', Gohan, SSI Future Trunks, Android 17, Gigantic Bergamo
-High SSG: base Kafla, Saonel, Pirina, Maji-Kayo, Dyspo
-Mid SSG: SSG Goku, Future Zamasu
-Low SSG: MBSS Kale
-Between SSG and SBG: BSS Kale
-SBG: SBG Goku, SBG Vegeta, SBG Goku Black, FF Freeza, Kahseral
-SS3: Fit Buu, SS3 Goku, Obuni, Android 18, Giant Ribrianne
-SS2: Piccolo, SS2 Saiyans, CBSS Kale, Present Zamasu
-Between SS2 and SS1: Magetta, Wrecking Ball Monna, Mr. Buu, Rubalt
-SS1: SS1 Saiyans, Super Ribrianne, Frost
-Between SS1 and base: Both Kamikaze Fireballs teams, Jimmies, U Katopesla, the rest of the Pride Troopers, Napapa, ToP mooks
-Base: base Saiyans, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Buff Roshi, almost all of U9, the U3 robots, more ToP mooks
-Slightly below base: Roshi, the rest of the mooks
SSJ2 Kefla is no where NEAR hakaishin tier. And neither is any form of current UI goku. I’m pretty sure if UI goku and Kefla were that strong, there would be statements about it, just like jiren has a statement of him being above a god of destruction, and toppo having a statement about him being on the level of a god of destruction. In fact, toppo is the only one with feats on the level of a hakaishin (that’s just because jiren has yet to even try) I’m pretty sure Goku UI will have a statement once the final fight with jiren starts.

Other than that, your list seems pretty solid in my opinion)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:31 am

PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Here's my personal tier ranking of Super characters (went a little overboard, meant to only include the godly characters, ended up including damn near everyone):

-Slightly above Hakaishin: Jiren, UIO Goku, SS2 Kafla
-Hakaishin: the Hakaishin, GoD Toppo, SSB Vegetto, Beerus, Spirit Sword Trunks
-Slightly below Hakaishin: SS1 Kafla, SSB KKx20 Goku, SSB2 Vegeta, Fused Zamasu
-Mid KK SSB: Anilaza
-Low KK SSB: Koichiarator, Super Dyspo, Hit, base Toppo
-High SSB: SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, SSR Goku Black, True Golden Freeza
-Mid SSB: Golden Freeza in 'F', SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in the U6 tournament and the start of the Future Trunks arc
-Low SSB: SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in 'F', Gohan, SSI Future Trunks, Android 17, Gigantic Bergamo
-High SSG: base Kafla, Saonel, Pirina, Maji-Kayo, Dyspo
-Mid SSG: SSG Goku, Future Zamasu
-Low SSG: MBSS Kale
-Between SSG and SBG: BSS Kale
-SBG: SBG Goku, SBG Vegeta, SBG Goku Black, FF Freeza, Kahseral
-SS3: Fit Buu, SS3 Goku, Obuni, Android 18, Giant Ribrianne
-SS2: Piccolo, SS2 Saiyans, CBSS Kale, Present Zamasu
-Between SS2 and SS1: Magetta, Wrecking Ball Monna, Mr. Buu, Rubalt
-SS1: SS1 Saiyans, Super Ribrianne, Frost
-Between SS1 and base: Both Kamikaze Fireballs teams, Jimmies, U Katopesla, the rest of the Pride Troopers, Napapa, ToP mooks
-Base: base Saiyans, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Buff Roshi, almost all of U9, the U3 robots, more ToP mooks
-Slightly below base: Roshi, the rest of the mooks
How is Kefla over Vegetto?
Kale is not SSG tier. She couldn't even beat a tired SSG Goku.
There's no Saiyan beyond God.
I'm guessing Hit's that high because of his time techniques correct?
Future Zamasu isn't SSG tier. If he was then initial Merged Zamasu would be a lot more stronger.
How are 18 and Ribrianne SS3 tier? That Rildo looking guy obtained all of Ribrianne's power and couldn't even land a hit on an exhausted base Goku.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Black Hawk » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:05 am

Just off the top of my head for characters I remember at the moment...

Z Tier - Jiren
SSS Tier - SSJ Blue Vegetto, Destroyer Deity Top
SS Tier - Ultra Instinct Omen Gokū, Agnlasa, LSSJ2 Kafla
S Tier - LSSJ Kafla, SSJ Blue Kaiōken Gokū, SSJ Royal Blue Vegeta, Koichiarator
A Tier - SSJ Blue Gokū, SSJ Blue Vegeta, Ultimate Gohan, Golden Freeza, Top, Full Speed Dispo
B Tier - SSJ Red Gokū, SSJ Red Vegeta, No. 17, Freeza, Hit, Dispo, LSSJ Kale
C Tier - Saonail, Pilina, Obuni, Ribrianne, Bergamo, Koitsukai, Panchia, Bolarator, Biara

Feel free to disagree or state any corrections you'd personally make.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:05 am

I think there will be statements on where Toppo stand in power in 126. I personally believe that toppo is very strong as a god of Destruction (of course somewhat weaker than beerus and belmod). Maybe they will state how he compares to certain hakaishins.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:13 am

pacz360 wrote:Hit literally traded blows with ssjb goku
That'd largely thanks is to his Time Skip abilities though. Back in the U6 Tournament he was getting clearly outmatched when he wasn't using those abilities.
Dyspo only did shit when the former had Intel on Hits timeskip and muscle vibration
When Hit figure him out it was a one sided ass whooping to the point Dyspo could barely stand
Seriously WTF am I'm reading here
Yeah but unlike Hit, Golden Frieza didn't have to figure anything out. Whereas Hit couldn't see Dyspo move and had to come up with a strategy that involved having to use his Time Skip and listening to his movements, Golden Frieza was just plain faster than him.

Hakaishin Liquir wrote:Dyspo wasn't going all-out against FF Freeza, which is why Zeno didn't have problems with seeing Dyspo's movements until after he used his Maximum Speed Mode. Also, Hit likely took more damage from Dyspo's first punch than he normally would have since he was off-guard when he got hit. Later on in the episode, we see Hit taking minimal damage from Dyspo's hits, and in 111, Hit was able to tank several punches from Jiren.
Well Final Form Frieza is something else, I wouldn't comment on that part. However Dyspo hit Golden Frieza and it didn't hurt him at all. Hit was knocked down multiple times however and was clearly injured.

Also if you watch both fights again, you can see Dyspo blitzing Hit who is far too slow to keep up as he couldn't see Dyspo move whereas Golden Frieza was blitzing Dyspo and Belmod said he was faster than him.
Besides, like I said before, Hit's base stats are below SSB, but his techniques put him on SSB+ level.
Yeah I'd say this was true, I think he's probably somewhere around the level of Super Saiyan God Goku up to Super Saiyan Blue Goku back in the Resurrection F saga and considerably below the current Super Saiyan Blue level.

With his abilities he's probably give anybody not at Ultra Instinct/God of Destruction level a really tough time.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Birusu16 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:08 am

apex_pretador wrote:My theory:
Toppo didn't get much stronger. He only started using hakai and GoD ki.
He became more durable because of hakai shield. This theory is supported by Freeza sensing him.
That's wrong. 17 even says his normal energy attacks are "unbelievably more powerful." He's also beating Vegeta in the new episode preview. So yes, he most certainly did become stronger. Much stronger.

And Freeza never sensed him. Not sure where you're getting that from. Nobody but the Gods were able to sense Toppo's power.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:53 am

Black Hawk wrote:Just off the top of my head for characters I remember at the moment...

Z Tier - Jiren
SSS Tier - SSJ Blue Vegetto, Destroyer Deity Top
SS Tier - Ultra Instinct Omen Gokū, Agnlasa, LSSJ2 Kafla
S Tier - LSSJ Kafla, SSJ Blue Kaiōken Gokū, SSJ Royal Blue Vegeta, Koichiarator
A Tier - SSJ Blue Gokū, SSJ Blue Vegeta, Ultimate Gohan, Golden Freeza, Top, Full Speed Dispo
B Tier - SSJ Red Gokū, SSJ Red Vegeta, No. 17, Freeza, Hit, Dispo, LSSJ Kale
C Tier - Saonail, Pilina, Obuni, Ribrianne, Bergamo, Koitsukai, Panchia, Bolarator, Biara

Feel free to disagree or state any corrections you'd personally make.
I would lower Agnlasa and Koichiarator each a tier. And raise Hit to A tier.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Myzt0gun » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:04 am

ZombieVito wrote:
PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Here's my personal tier ranking of Super characters (went a little overboard, meant to only include the godly characters, ended up including damn near everyone):

-Slightly above Hakaishin: Jiren, UIO Goku, SS2 Kafla
-Hakaishin: the Hakaishin, GoD Toppo, SSB Vegetto, Beerus, Spirit Sword Trunks
-Slightly below Hakaishin: SS1 Kafla, SSB KKx20 Goku, SSB2 Vegeta, Fused Zamasu
-Mid KK SSB: Anilaza
-Low KK SSB: Koichiarator, Super Dyspo, Hit, base Toppo
-High SSB: SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, SSR Goku Black, True Golden Freeza
-Mid SSB: Golden Freeza in 'F', SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in the U6 tournament and the start of the Future Trunks arc
-Low SSB: SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in 'F', Gohan, SSI Future Trunks, Android 17, Gigantic Bergamo
-High SSG: base Kafla, Saonel, Pirina, Maji-Kayo, Dyspo
-Mid SSG: SSG Goku, Future Zamasu
-Low SSG: MBSS Kale
-Between SSG and SBG: BSS Kale
-SBG: SBG Goku, SBG Vegeta, SBG Goku Black, FF Freeza, Kahseral
-SS3: Fit Buu, SS3 Goku, Obuni, Android 18, Giant Ribrianne
-SS2: Piccolo, SS2 Saiyans, CBSS Kale, Present Zamasu
-Between SS2 and SS1: Magetta, Wrecking Ball Monna, Mr. Buu, Rubalt
-SS1: SS1 Saiyans, Super Ribrianne, Frost
-Between SS1 and base: Both Kamikaze Fireballs teams, Jimmies, U Katopesla, the rest of the Pride Troopers, Napapa, ToP mooks
-Base: base Saiyans, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Buff Roshi, almost all of U9, the U3 robots, more ToP mooks
-Slightly below base: Roshi, the rest of the mooks
How is Kefla over Vegetto?
Kale is not SSG tier. She couldn't even beat a tired SSG Goku.
There's no Saiyan beyond God.
I'm guessing Hit's that high because of his time techniques correct?
Future Zamasu isn't SSG tier. If he was then initial Merged Zamasu would be a lot more stronger.
How are 18 and Ribrianne SS3 tier? That Rildo looking guy obtained all of Ribrianne's power and couldn't even land a hit on an exhausted base Goku.
Yeah, you overestimated Kefla's power, her SSJ2 form is atleast Low KK SSB for me

Ribrianne is Base Goku level but gets stronger depends on her feeling i guess (cause her ki is love i guess)
Kamikazee Fireballs =or> Trio De Dangers =or> the 3 green robots of U3

Android 18 is just SSJ1 Level for me, and Krillin/Tien are below Base Saiyans

Rest of Pride Troopers, Napapa, Jimeze, and Frost are even weaker than each of the Trio De Dangers I'm afraid

God Toppo is not equal Beerus, IMO he is just on Sidra's Level or possibly even weaker than Sidra (Who is one of the weaker Gods IMO)

Super Dyspo in terms of Power Level and Strength is just SSJ3 or SSJ2 Tier

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheDipDap1234 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:58 am

ZombieVito wrote: That Rildo looking guy obtained all of Ribrianne's power and couldn't even land a hit on an exhausted base Goku.
He didn't have 2 other transformations like Ribrianne did.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Pannaliciour » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:08 am

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Here's my personal tier ranking of Super characters (went a little overboard, meant to only include the godly characters, ended up including damn near everyone):

-Slightly above Hakaishin: Jiren, UIO Goku, SS2 Kafla
-Hakaishin: the Hakaishin, GoD Toppo, SSB Vegetto, Beerus, Spirit Sword Trunks
-Slightly below Hakaishin: SS1 Kafla, SSB KKx20 Goku, SSB2 Vegeta, Fused Zamasu
-Mid KK SSB: Anilaza
-Low KK SSB: Koichiarator, Super Dyspo, Hit, base Toppo
-High SSB: SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, SSR Goku Black, True Golden Freeza
-Mid SSB: Golden Freeza in 'F', SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in the U6 tournament and the start of the Future Trunks arc
-Low SSB: SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in 'F', Gohan, SSI Future Trunks, Android 17, Gigantic Bergamo
-High SSG: base Kafla, Saonel, Pirina, Maji-Kayo, Dyspo
-Mid SSG: SSG Goku, Future Zamasu
-Low SSG: MBSS Kale
-Between SSG and SBG: BSS Kale
-SBG: SBG Goku, SBG Vegeta, SBG Goku Black, FF Freeza, Kahseral
-SS3: Fit Buu, SS3 Goku, Obuni, Android 18, Giant Ribrianne
-SS2: Piccolo, SS2 Saiyans, CBSS Kale, Present Zamasu
-Between SS2 and SS1: Magetta, Wrecking Ball Monna, Mr. Buu, Rubalt
-SS1: SS1 Saiyans, Super Ribrianne, Frost
-Between SS1 and base: Both Kamikaze Fireballs teams, Jimmies, U Katopesla, the rest of the Pride Troopers, Napapa, ToP mooks
-Base: base Saiyans, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Buff Roshi, almost all of U9, the U3 robots, more ToP mooks
-Slightly below base: Roshi, the rest of the mooks
SSJ2 Kefla is no where NEAR hakaishin tier. And neither is any form of current UI goku. I’m pretty sure if UI goku and Kefla were that strong, there would be statements about it, just like jiren has a statement of him being above a god of destruction, and toppo having a statement about him being on the level of a god of destruction. In fact, toppo is the only one with feats on the level of a hakaishin (that’s just because jiren has yet to even try) I’m pretty sure Goku UI will have a statement once the final fight with jiren starts.

Other than that, your list seems pretty solid in my opinion)
About Kefla ssj2 you might be right. Its hard to tell how strong she really is. She could one shot a universe (thats a Hakai level maximum). But UI Goku is at least Hakai level or above. And about the statements> All the gods where worried and even Beerus was besides worried also jealous. Because even he has trouble with UI (mastering or something). If person A is consider to be Hakai level or above and person B is doing better then person A then person B is consider also to be at the same level of Hakai or above. Its simple as that. Jiren didn't supressed/reduce his ki after the statement of Whis and Kaioshin and Goku was doing better then Jiren until his UI run out.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:12 am

Myzt0gun wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Here's my personal tier ranking of Super characters (went a little overboard, meant to only include the godly characters, ended up including damn near everyone):

-Slightly above Hakaishin: Jiren, UIO Goku, SS2 Kafla
-Hakaishin: the Hakaishin, GoD Toppo, SSB Vegetto, Beerus, Spirit Sword Trunks
-Slightly below Hakaishin: SS1 Kafla, SSB KKx20 Goku, SSB2 Vegeta, Fused Zamasu
-Mid KK SSB: Anilaza
-Low KK SSB: Koichiarator, Super Dyspo, Hit, base Toppo
-High SSB: SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, SSR Goku Black, True Golden Freeza
-Mid SSB: Golden Freeza in 'F', SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in the U6 tournament and the start of the Future Trunks arc
-Low SSB: SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in 'F', Gohan, SSI Future Trunks, Android 17, Gigantic Bergamo
-High SSG: base Kafla, Saonel, Pirina, Maji-Kayo, Dyspo
-Mid SSG: SSG Goku, Future Zamasu
-Low SSG: MBSS Kale
-Between SSG and SBG: BSS Kale
-SBG: SBG Goku, SBG Vegeta, SBG Goku Black, FF Freeza, Kahseral
-SS3: Fit Buu, SS3 Goku, Obuni, Android 18, Giant Ribrianne
-SS2: Piccolo, SS2 Saiyans, CBSS Kale, Present Zamasu
-Between SS2 and SS1: Magetta, Wrecking Ball Monna, Mr. Buu, Rubalt
-SS1: SS1 Saiyans, Super Ribrianne, Frost
-Between SS1 and base: Both Kamikaze Fireballs teams, Jimmies, U Katopesla, the rest of the Pride Troopers, Napapa, ToP mooks
-Base: base Saiyans, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Buff Roshi, almost all of U9, the U3 robots, more ToP mooks
-Slightly below base: Roshi, the rest of the mooks
How is Kefla over Vegetto?
Kale is not SSG tier. She couldn't even beat a tired SSG Goku.
There's no Saiyan beyond God.
I'm guessing Hit's that high because of his time techniques correct?
Future Zamasu isn't SSG tier. If he was then initial Merged Zamasu would be a lot more stronger.
How are 18 and Ribrianne SS3 tier? That Rildo looking guy obtained all of Ribrianne's power and couldn't even land a hit on an exhausted base Goku.
Yeah, you overestimated Kefla's power, her SSJ2 form is atleast Low KK SSB for me

Ribrianne is Base Goku level but gets stronger depends on her feeling i guess (cause her ki is love i guess)
Kamikazee Fireballs =or> Trio De Dangers =or> the 3 green robots of U3

Android 18 is just SSJ1 Level for me, and Krillin/Tien are below Base Saiyans

Rest of Pride Troopers, Napapa, Jimeze, and Frost are even weaker than each of the Trio De Dangers I'm afraid

God Toppo is not equal Beerus, IMO he is just on Sidra's Level or possibly even weaker than Sidra (Who is one of the weaker Gods IMO)

Super Dyspo in terms of Power Level and Strength is just SSJ3 or SSJ2 Tier
You are severely underestimating toppo and Sidra. We don’t know how toppo compares to other gods, cause he was just stated be at hakaishin level very vaguely. And there’s nothing stating Sidra being the weakest gods either. Toppo is on beerus level the same way every other god is on beerus level, they are all gods of destruction, we can’t say much besides that. Unless they make a clear reference. Also, toppo isn’t an inexperienced god of destruction, theres a reason Marcarita said “let us see the fruits of our training”, she was the one who trained him for the role. And about Kefla, she is very well comparable to a ssb kaioken x20.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Rally 07 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:29 am

ZombieVito wrote:
How is Kefla over Vegetto?
Kale is not SSG tier. She couldn't even beat a tired SSG Goku.
There's no Saiyan beyond God.
First off, Kefla is likely beyond Future Trunks story arc Vegetto Blue. Even if you go the manga route, she'd still be beyond Vegetto Blue due to the fact she was stated to rival the Genkidama as a Super Saiyan, then further transforming into Super Saiyan 2. Making her twice as powerful as the Genkidama. And that same Genkidama is likely Hakaishin level in power due to Belmod being concerned about it. And you can argue that Shin stated Vegetto is beyond Beerus in power; one, Toyotaru claimed that Shin's word could mean nothing for all we know, and second, it was likely Vegetto's attack that might've surpassed Beerus. But a hypothetical Tournament of Power Vegetto is simply a different story though.

Second, you must not have watched the Super Saiyan God Gokou vs. Beerus fight in the Battle of Gods story arc dude. You must not believe Gokou absorbed the power of the Super Saiyan God into his Base form if you claim there is no Saiyan beyond God. I don't understand how you can claim that when it's stated several times in the series by the narrators and characters confirming it. Did you just only watch the Battle of Gods movie instead of watching Super?!

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Rally 07 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:33 am

Kenneth La Torre wrote: And about Kefla, she is very well comparable to a ssb kaioken x20.
Oh yeah indeed, even in her suppressed state. Then she slaps Blue Gokou w/Kaioken like it's nothing. Then there's Ultra Instinct Gokou for the second time. A stronger Ultra Instinct, whom Kefla as a Super Saiyan 2 is comparable to as well.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by brett wheeler » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:31 am

Rally 07 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
How is Kefla over Vegetto?
Kale is not SSG tier. She couldn't even beat a tired SSG Goku.
There's no Saiyan beyond God.
First off, Kefla is likely beyond Future Trunks story arc Vegetto Blue. Even if you go the manga route, she'd still be beyond Vegetto Blue due to the fact she was stated to rival the Genkidama as a Super Saiyan, then further transforming into Super Saiyan 2. Making her twice as powerful as the Genkidama. And that same Genkidama is likely Hakaishin level in power due to Belmod being concerned about it. And you can argue that Shin stated Vegetto is beyond Beerus in power; one, Toyotaru claimed that Shin's word could mean nothing for all we know, and second, it was likely Vegetto's attack that might've surpassed Beerus. But a hypothetical Tournament of Power Vegetto is simply a different story though.

Second, you must not have watched the Super Saiyan God Goku vs. Beerus fight in the Battle of Gods story arc dude. You must not believe Gokou absorbed the power of the Super Saiyan God into his Base form if you claim there is no Saiyan beyond God. I don't understand how you can claim that when it's stated several times in the series by the narrators and characters confirming it. Did you just only watch the Battle of Gods movie instead of watching Super?!
about sbg, it doesnt exist as a separate form, nor has it ever, goku does hold back a lot to have a fair fight but that doesnt mean sbg is a thing. personally I dont believe gokus base is ssg lvl just really strong ( above ssj vegito buu saga definitely ), this is further shown when he takes on a fit buu that has trained and was able to push buu and give him a good fight, also just because goku transforms doesn't mean he was forced to do it we have seen on multiple occasions goku transforming with little need to do so( best example is ssb vs berserk kale ), goku isnt the best indicator on power for base lvl fighters. lastly if you want a good indicator for where the humans lye judging from frieza being the strongest of u7 ( nemak saga of course ) I say most of the normal fighters are about that lvl all the way up to andriod 17/18 lvl and mid normal fighters are probably cell lvl max, this is pretty consistent so the humans are probably around ff frieza lvl ( namek saga ), this makes sense to how well the humans have done and to why andriod 18 ( who has gotten a little bit stronger ) can do so well as well, they can close the gap with strategy, the rest of the fighters where strong enough to be around goku, vegeta,ff frieza ( post rof ), piccolo,17 ( top ), and gohan and those fighters have all been the fighters labeled as extremely exceptional in there respective universes. Over all no sbg just writing inconsistencies and goku holding back or transforming for no reason.

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TheSaiyanGod
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:52 pm

PushoverMediaCritic wrote:Here's my personal tier ranking of Super characters (went a little overboard, meant to only include the godly characters, ended up including damn near everyone):

-Slightly above Hakaishin: Jiren, UIO Goku, SS2 Kafla
-Hakaishin: the Hakaishin, GoD Toppo, SSB Vegetto, Beerus, Spirit Sword Trunks
-Slightly below Hakaishin: SS1 Kafla, SSB KKx20 Goku, SSB2 Vegeta, Fused Zamasu
-Mid KK SSB: Anilaza
-Low KK SSB: Koichiarator, Super Dyspo, Hit, base Toppo
-High SSB: SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, SSR Goku Black, True Golden Freeza
-Mid SSB: Golden Freeza in 'F', SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in the U6 tournament and the start of the Future Trunks arc
-Low SSB: SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in 'F', Gohan, SSI Future Trunks, Android 17, Gigantic Bergamo
-High SSG: base Kafla, Saonel, Pirina, Maji-Kayo, Dyspo
-Mid SSG: SSG Goku, Future Zamasu
-Low SSG: MBSS Kale
-Between SSG and SBG: BSS Kale
-SBG: SBG Goku, SBG Vegeta, SBG Goku Black, FF Freeza, Kahseral
-SS3: Fit Buu, SS3 Goku, Obuni, Android 18, Giant Ribrianne
-SS2: Piccolo, SS2 Saiyans, CBSS Kale, Present Zamasu
-Between SS2 and SS1: Magetta, Wrecking Ball Monna, Mr. Buu, Rubalt
-SS1: SS1 Saiyans, Super Ribrianne, Frost
-Between SS1 and base: Both Kamikaze Fireballs teams, Jimmies, U Katopesla, the rest of the Pride Troopers, Napapa, ToP mooks
-Base: base Saiyans, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Buff Roshi, almost all of U9, the U3 robots, more ToP mooks
-Slightly below base: Roshi, the rest of the mooks
- Kefla SSJ2 not even be near the power of a Hakaishin. That was never even said. At most, it is SSB level KK x20.

-And Kefla SSJ is not above Vegeta SSB2 and Goku SSB KK x20 current, no way. According to Whis, his power was only comparable to that of Genkidama (EP 109). But both Goku and Vegeta are much stronger than the SSB KK x20 of the EP 109. Goku (EP 123) only in SSB managed to exchange blows with Jiren (who was stronger than in the fight against UI Goku), not to mention the fact that he and Vegeta were able to pressure this Jiren. So Kefla SSJ is currently far below them.

- And why is Koichiarator so overrated? Even Ultimate Gohan was able to overcome him with a Kamehameha.

-Kale is not near SSG, she nek managed to scratch Goku God tired.

-Why is Android 18 and Ribrianne level SSJ3?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Guesswhoo » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:16 pm

I can't understand how someone can tell kelfa is stronger than SSB vegito, it just contradict the logic in and out of the universe. The only thing that might support that is Fused Zamasu being damaged by Goku which is open to interpretation seeing how Zamasu was (too) cocky and his body (and power) was unstable since the beginning of the fusion (or Fused zamasu was just one big inconsistency) .

Also we should stop the hakaishin wank, it will only hurt the franchise in the long run because nobody seems to be allowed to be stronger than a GoD in fan's headcanon. I don't think Toriyama wanted the GoD to be this powerful to begin with but when people's interest on Beerus ( and GoD in general) shifted toward their apparent "invincibility" and how badass they can be, making someone more powerful than them (even if it make sense) would strike down that interest (thus the merch potential).
Last edited by Guesswhoo on Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SupremeKai25
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:25 pm

Here's my personal tier ranking of Super characters (went a little overboard, meant to only include the godly characters, ended up including damn near everyone):

-Slightly above Hakaishin: Jiren, UIO Goku, SS2 Kafla
-Hakaishin: the Hakaishin, GoD Toppo, SSB Vegetto, Beerus, Spirit Sword Trunks
-Slightly below Hakaishin: SS1 Kafla, SSB KKx20 Goku, SSB2 Vegeta, Fused Zamasu
-Mid KK SSB: Anilaza
-Low KK SSB: Koichiarator, Super Dyspo, Hit, base Toppo
-High SSB: SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, SSR Goku Black, True Golden Freeza
-Mid SSB: Golden Freeza in 'F', SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in the U6 tournament and the start of the Future Trunks arc
-Low SSB: SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta in 'F', Gohan, SSI Future Trunks, Android 17, Gigantic Bergamo
-High SSG: base Kafla, Saonel, Pirina, Maji-Kayo, Dyspo
-Mid SSG: SSG Goku, Future Zamasu
-Low SSG: MBSS Kale
-Between SSG and SBG: BSS Kale
-SBG: SBG Goku, SBG Vegeta, SBG Goku Black, FF Freeza, Kahseral
-SS3: Fit Buu, SS3 Goku, Obuni, Android 18, Giant Ribrianne
-SS2: Piccolo, SS2 Saiyans, CBSS Kale, Present Zamasu
-Between SS2 and SS1: Magetta, Wrecking Ball Monna, Mr. Buu, Rubalt
-SS1: SS1 Saiyans, Super Ribrianne, Frost
-Between SS1 and base: Both Kamikaze Fireballs teams, Jimmies, U Katopesla, the rest of the Pride Troopers, Napapa, ToP mooks
-Base: base Saiyans, Krillin, Tenshinhan, Buff Roshi, almost all of U9, the U3 robots, more ToP mooks
-Slightly below base: Roshi, the rest of the mooks
Super Saiyan Rosè Goku Black should be Low KK SSB at the very least. In ep. 64, he states that his power had gone beyond even his own divine understanding. And later on, in ep. 65, Gowasu called Black 'the most powerful'. Black transcended time and space like Jiren, and was able to overpower both SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta with his endless army of clones.

I don't see Infinite Zamasu in you list. He would possibly be Hakaishin level or even slightly above. Since he transcended time and space and was immortal, so even the all-mighty Hakai technique wouldn't work on him. And he easily repelled a combined attack of three extremely powerful Saiyans. Even Beerus and Whis themselves, who were very distant from Earth, felt the energy of Zamasu ripping through time and space; an energy that even made Whis' skin tingle. And it was just a tiny fraction of his true power, as the bulk of Infinite Zamasu was in the Future timeline.
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