Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Kenneth La Torre
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:36 pm

Bullza wrote:Not much to say here except Android 17 is definitely stronger than I earlier gave him credit for. He's still not current Super Saiyan Blue level but he's probably on the low or even mid end of that power.
Hakaishin Liquir wrote:So much for the "Golden Freeza > Hit" crowd.
He's definitely above Hit. Hit fought a suppressed Jiren, even more suppressed than his lesser suppressed level from the past few episodes. This is a full power Jiren, big difference.
Nothing about jiren being full power in the episode. The only thing said about how much effort he is exerting is that he started getting serious. Still no confirmation of full power.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by buutenks » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:38 pm

Man, I'm really going to miss super. All these asspulls and salty people flaming. Will miss it dearly.

For 2 years I've eagerly awaited each sunday to watch an episode of super. A fun ride.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:52 pm

Hakaishin Liquir wrote:So much for the "Golden Freeza > Hit" crowd.
A beat up enraged Frieza who isn't thinking clearly against a powered up Jiren isn't really comparable to a clear minded Hit using tactics against a weaker version of Jiren.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:54 pm

Jiren said that Vegeta can not defeat him with those wounds.

So Vegeta supposed is not to have his full power yet?

Despite this, he and Goku fought against powered up Jiren (much more than before) well I guess

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SayianBeyondGod » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:15 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:Jiren said that Vegeta can not defeat him with those wounds.

So Vegeta supposed is not to have his full power yet?

Despite this, he and Goku fought against powered up Jiren (much more than before) well I guess
Agreed, the same Vegeta that was overpowering Toppo would've put up a better fight and probably hold his own against this powered Jiren. I have a feeling people are going to argue that the gap between mastered UI and Beyond Blue is going to big, but before it comes to that people should realize Vegeta was very fatigue during 127 up to 128 potentially, making it harder to scale.

Considering that Jiren compliments Vegeta's punch with him throwing more attacks than Goku, I believe his performance was still better than SSBKK Goku.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:55 am

It’s made clear in this episode that jiren is way above a regular Hakaishin. If jiren isn’t above G.o.D level in general, he is definitely at the peak of G.o.D levels. Kinda crazy how strong his 100% is going to be.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by AvatarReiko » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:36 am

There is pretty much no way you can argue that 17 isn’t definitively SSJB level after this episode. He has done more damage to Jiren than a full power SSJB Final Flash and was the last one standing among the 3 fighters after Jiren’s assault. He survived against Toppo, forced Goku to go blue, tanked Aniraza’s energy attack with his barrier and held back Jiren’s strongest attack for sometime before going down. There is simply no way that he is not SSJB tier. Even if you don't necessarily subscribe to him being as strong as the saiyans, he at least in the same tier

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:41 am

AvatarReiko wrote:There is pretty much no way you can argue that 17 isn’t definitively SSJB level after this episode. He has done more damage to Jiren than a full power SSJB Final Flash and was the last one standing among the 3 fighters after Jiren’s assault. He survived against Toppo, forced Goku to go blue, tanked Aniraza’s energy attack with his barrier and held back Jiren’s strongest attack for sometime before going down. There is simply no way that he is not SSJB tier. Even if you don't necessarily subscribe to him being as strong as the saiyans, he at least in the same tier
It was obvious since before this episode. Tho is also very clear that his barrier can hold attacks far stronger than his. But yes, android 17 is ssb, solidly. And being well above ssb level when he self destructs.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SayianBeyondGod » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:23 am

AvatarReiko wrote:There is pretty much no way you can argue that 17 isn’t definitively SSJB level after this episode. He has done more damage to Jiren than a full power SSJB Final Flash and was the last one standing among the 3 fighters after Jiren’s assault. He survived against Toppo, forced Goku to go blue, tanked Aniraza’s energy attack with his barrier and held back Jiren’s strongest attack for sometime before going down. There is simply no way that he is not SSJB tier. Even if you don't necessarily subscribe to him being as strong as the saiyans, he at least in the same tier
I'm pretty sure it was explained Jiren was off guard hence was 17 could do minor damage to him, but he couldn't do the same tactic later on as Jiren realizes his mistake. It's consistent that characters are easily to damage when off guard. I don't think 17 rivals the spirit bomb or SSBKK let alone which are much inferior to the full powered Final Flash.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by avasatu » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:27 am

Considering the fact that Goku and Vegeta have gotten absurdly more powerful even since 109-110, 17 is at least Recruitment Arc SSB level.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Issei189 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:36 am

I don't understand Super's logic. 17 is much weaker than God toppo, but he somehow injured Jiren with his Off guard attack and let's not forget Final Form frieza who's only SSJ Goku level and he somehow send Jiren flying through Boulders. I mean, Jiren is stronger than God Toppo, so Final form Frieza's blow shouldn't have even flinched a off guard Jiren because the gap b/w them is like the distance b/w Earth and Sun. This should have been like off guard cell tanking Kuririn's blows.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:39 am

Issei189 wrote:I don't understand Super's logic. 17 is much weaker than God toppo, but he somehow injured Jiren with his Off guard attack and let's not forget Final Form frieza who's only SSJ Goku level and he somehow send Jiren flying through Boulders. I mean, Jiren is stronger than God Toppo, so Final form Frieza's blow shouldn't have even flinched a off guard Jiren because the gap b/w them is like the distance b/w Earth and Sun. This should have been like off guard cell tanking Kuririn's blows.
This post highlights exactly why I despise power-scaling.

I hate literally every point made in it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Issei189 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:43 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Issei189 wrote:I don't understand Super's logic. 17 is much weaker than God toppo, but he somehow injured Jiren with his Off guard attack and let's not forget Final Form frieza who's only SSJ Goku level and he somehow send Jiren flying through Boulders. I mean, Jiren is stronger than God Toppo, so Final form Frieza's blow shouldn't have even flinched a off guard Jiren because the gap b/w them is like the distance b/w Earth and Sun. This should have been like off guard cell tanking Kuririn's blows.
This post highlights exactly why I despise power-scaling.

I hate literally every point made in it.
Well, It's clear that Super has no logic. Goku keeps recovering his Stamina in a few secs and Vegeta somehow was using ASSB despite using all of his power in the previous episode. Toei only cares about the flashy stuff and fan service

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:21 am

Issei189 wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Issei189 wrote:I don't understand Super's logic. 17 is much weaker than God toppo, but he somehow injured Jiren with his Off guard attack and let's not forget Final Form frieza who's only SSJ Goku level and he somehow send Jiren flying through Boulders. I mean, Jiren is stronger than God Toppo, so Final form Frieza's blow shouldn't have even flinched a off guard Jiren because the gap b/w them is like the distance b/w Earth and Sun. This should have been like off guard cell tanking Kuririn's blows.
This post highlights exactly why I despise power-scaling.

I hate literally every point made in it.
Well, It's clear that Super has no logic. Goku keeps recovering his Stamina in a few secs and Vegeta somehow was using ASSB despite using all of his power in the previous episode. Toei only cares about the flashy stuff and fan service
It was always like this with Toei.
I wonder if people are ever going to realize this?
Just look at Jiren, he finally unleashes all of his power, but he barely does better than before, Goku and Vegeta can still exchange punches and kicks with him and #17 can dodge him. Even Final Form Freeza could exchange blows with him before getting beaten.
Fact is people taking any of these events, as clear proof, that "this and that character is this and that level", is clearly basing it on some totally arbitrary feats, that only exist to make things look cool, rather than just have it go the boring route by having Jiren instantly demolish them, as such a massive power up would logically entail.
Toei are presenting this earnestly, but really it's all just one big joke, that shouldn't be taken seriously in the slightest, kinda like what Herms once said about Freeza having all those power-ups on Namek.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Raphael_Z » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:04 am

In the preview of next episode, Base Vegeta is seen holding his own against Full Power Jiren. Whoa....TOIE really hates consistency.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Ice85 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:33 am

Issei189 wrote:I don't understand Super's logic. 17 is much weaker than God toppo, but he somehow injured Jiren with his Off guard attack and let's not forget Final Form frieza who's only SSJ Goku level and he somehow send Jiren flying through Boulders. I mean, Jiren is stronger than God Toppo, so Final form Frieza's blow shouldn't have even flinched a off guard Jiren because the gap b/w them is like the distance b/w Earth and Sun. This should have been like off guard cell tanking Kuririn's blows.
That's nothing new for Super. Back in episode 57, SSJ2 Trunks caught SSJR Black off guard and knocked him into a building. I guess Super really wants to emphasize that good strategy can close the power gap between characters.
Last edited by Ice85 on Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:35 am

Raphael_Z wrote:In the preview of next episode, Base Vegeta is seen holding his own against Full Power Jiren. Whoa....TOIE really hates consistency.
Well, he can't exactly do much else if he doesn't have enough power to transform. Plus, Jiren's not the type to instantly vaporize opponents.

Overall, because it's just Jiren, there's really nothing to say about the power-scaling. Jiren is the strongest there is, nothing else to say.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:09 am

I'm really starting to wonder about Frieza's durability. Every episode he comes back like nothing happened.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:15 am

Just want to make it clear that Jiren, holding back, could block SS2 Goku's attacks without moving and SSG Goku's blows with a finger but he got pushed back and needed to dodge final form Freeza's attacks :roll:

Who here still wants to argue that he's base tier?
TheUltimateNinja wrote:I'm really starting to wonder about Frieza's durability. Every episode he comes back like nothing happened.
Woah, so the guy who got hit with a Genkidama, got sliced in half, got blown up by a massive blast from SS Goku and still survived a planet explosion on top of that has insane durability? Color me shocked.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by MajinVegetaPD » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:29 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:I'm really starting to wonder about Frieza's durability. Every episode he comes back like nothing happened.
Well, dude can survive planets exploding with him on it. I'd say he is pretty durable. It never showed him shielded by 17 either, but he never rung out, so I'm sure he survived that as well. He'll be there in the end in some form.

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