Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ankokudaishogun
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:52 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:How likely is it that SSGod and SS4 have comparable multipliers/strength? I'm working on a potential theory where they're essentially alternate means of reaching a similar level of power.
Not necessarily: Goku:Xeno is older and more experienced than Goku:Super, so he might just have a much higher base-level.
Wasn't Goku:GT in Base supposed to be as strong as SS3 Goku during Z? Goku:Xeno might well be even stronger.

Personally, I do believe SS4 is the "final form for Mortal Ki" for Saiyans, the form that optimizes their bodies at the upmost level in dealing with Mortal Ki.
While the "Final form for God Ki" is Ultra Instinct, which doesn't change the body but it's the highest level of Ki Control Efficiency-

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:18 pm

Mountains of spoiler tags give me a headache, so there's no way in hades I'm going to bother using those.
Lord Beerus wrote:But... SSJ Kale on her own was able to be beat the shit out of Golden Freeza and overwhelm MSSJB Goku.
Three things to keep in mind here:

1. Kale's Super Saiyan form is highly unstable and so is its power, since Vados suggested that it continuously increases as she loses control. Kefla doesn't seem nearly as volatile in comparison, so that mechanic doesn't necessarily apply to the constituents of her strength.

2. Golden Freeza directly stated that he wasn't fighting Kale seriously.

3. Vegeta directly stated that Gohan has the potential to surpass both himself and Goku.

The comparison between Kale, Kefla and potentially Gohan isn't nearly as clear-cut with those factors coming into play, and people should probably wait for the actual chapter before prematurely assessing the scaling incorporated into the story.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:Mountains of spoiler tags give me a headache, so there's no way in hades I'm going to bother using those.
Lord Beerus wrote:But... SSJ Kale on her own was able to be beat the shit out of Golden Freeza and overwhelm MSSJB Goku.
Three things to keep in mind here:

1. Kale's Super Saiyan form is highly unstable and so is its power, since Vados suggested that it continuously increases as she loses control. Kefla doesn't seem nearly as volatile in comparison, so that mechanic doesn't necessarily apply to the constituents of her strength.

2. Golden Freeza directly stated that he wasn't fighting Kale seriously. Even if he somehow was, there's still the point above to consider.

3. Vegeta directly stated that Gohan has the potential to surpass both himself and Goku.

The comparison between Kale, Kefla and potentially Gohan isn't nearly as clear-cut with those factors coming into play, and people should probably wait for the actual chapter before prematurely assessing the scaling incorporated into the story.
Well, according to the spoilers, Gohan wants Goku to deal with Jiren (the strongest) while he faces Kefla, which confirms that Goku is indeed stronger than his son (something obvious, I think). So if Gohan is somehow able to fight Kefla alone, that would confirm that Kale is inferior to Goku (which would also confirm some of the points you quoted).

So perhaps the power of Kale is not great as we think and so Gohan will be able to face Kefla, but we have to wait for the translation to be sure

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:30 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Well, according to the spoilers, Gohan wants Goku to deal with Jiren (the strongest) while he faces Kefla, which confirms that Goku is indeed stronger than his son (something obvious, I think).
I was moreso just pointing out that there's a precedent in case Toyotaro decides to go that route, but I don't personally believe he will unless Gohan actually was worthy of Blue Kaioken Goku all along.

The first two points are the biggest ones to take note of in this case.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:16 pm

Kefla could hypothetically be less dangerous than Kale. It may be a Kid Buu type situation where Kefla is stronger, but because she isn't crazed like Kale, she's less of a threat.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:59 am

So who is it that is gonna give Kale enough trouble that they had to fuse?

And Gohan is going to fight Kefla? He's gonna end up beating her with his Ultimate form I suppose.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:19 am

Bullza wrote:So who is it that is gonna give Kale enough trouble that they had to fuse?

And Gohan is going to fight Kefla? He's gonna end up beating her with his Ultimate form I suppose.
I'm pretty sure she nearly got knocked off by Dyspo.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:12 am

Marlowe89 wrote:Mountains of spoiler tags give me a headache, so there's no way in hades I'm going to bother using those.
Lord Beerus wrote:But... SSJ Kale on her own was able to be beat the shit out of Golden Freeza and overwhelm MSSJB Goku.
Three things to keep in mind here:

1. Kale's Super Saiyan form is highly unstable and so is its power, since Vados suggested that it continuously increases as she loses control. Kefla doesn't seem nearly as volatile in comparison, so that mechanic doesn't necessarily apply to the constituents of her strength.

2. Golden Freeza directly stated that he wasn't fighting Kale seriously.

3. Vegeta directly stated that Gohan has the potential to surpass both himself and Goku.

The comparison between Kale, Kefla and potentially Gohan isn't nearly as clear-cut with those factors coming into play, and people should probably wait for the actual chapter before prematurely assessing the scaling incorporated into the story.
Your first point is the big one and even the anime was consistent about it. Completely out of control Kale was able to smash Blue Goku around like a rag doll, prompting a direct intervention from Jiren to stop her. Then in their rematch, she "masters" her power but a fatigued SSGod Goku is enough to summarily kick her ass. Not to the degree he beats on Caulifla but he's still obviously quite a bit above her. It's pretty easy to say the same thing will apply to the manga. It's also why I don't believe Kefla's SS forms yield ridiculous strength gains as others do.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:04 am

Aniraza is weaker than Tupper in the manga.

Enough said, really.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:48 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Well, according to the spoilers, Gohan wants Goku to deal with Jiren (the strongest) while he faces Kefla, which confirms that Goku is indeed stronger than his son (something obvious, I think).
Blasphemy! Gohan simply wants Goku to have fun while simultaneously keeping an eye open to make sure Goku doesn't get hurt, the kind of making sure that an all powerful fusion beating entity does..

This Gohan fight I am looking forward to, this is gonna be so good, bangless Gohan shines in a fight for the first time in history of the manga, here's hoping he somewhat helps against Jiren too, but I am pretty sure dyspo's gonna be his final picking after which he goes down. In style.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:09 pm

So, SS Goku > Tupper > Berserker Kale > SSB Goku = Golden Freeza.

That's what I've managed to gather. Can't find any faults here.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:14 pm

God. Damn. Kale is a beast in the manga.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:15 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:God. Damn. Kale is a beast in the manga.
Makes you wonder why she got blown the fuck out by a group of Pride Troopers whom SS1 Goku could handle.

And how Gohan is gonna deal with Kefla.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:17 pm

Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:God. Damn. Kale is a beast in the manga.
Makes you wonder why she got blown the fuck out by a group of Pride Troopers whom SS1 Goku could handle.

And how Gohan is gonna deal with Kefla.
The site I read the chapter on had disjointed pages so I'm not sure but it looks like her overwhelming power started to backfire on her. Might've missed something there.

Gohan vs Kefla is gonna be hilarious either way it goes, he'll either get stomped or take her down. Either way, nerds will riot.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:30 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:God. Damn. Kale is a beast in the manga.
Makes you wonder why she got blown the fuck out by a group of Pride Troopers whom SS1 Goku could handle.

And how Gohan is gonna deal with Kefla.
The site I read the chapter on had disjointed pages so I'm not sure but it looks like her overwhelming power started to backfire on her. Might've missed something there.

Gohan vs Kefla is gonna be hilarious either way it goes, he'll either get stomped or take her down. Either way, nerds will riot.
No, according to Herms, Kale is just "predictable" in this state. The Troopers were just predicting her next attack, which is stupid following the original series' logic, since Kale should be much faster than them and they shouldn't have time to react. But, whatever, I'm getting used to Super pulling this kind of bullshit every time in order to have weaker fighters stand a chance against stronger ones rather than write a competent and consistent scenario where this could be possible following the series' internal logic.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:50 pm

WTF Base Gohan deflected a ki blast from SSJ Kefla like it was nothing.
    Next month is gonna be the biggest shitshow, R.I.P to the powerscaling in the manga.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by Omniboy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:08 pm

    Am I correct in saying that Kale's super saiyan form is nowhere near as strong as SSB Goku and Golden Frieza?

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by Doctor. » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:17 pm

    Omniboy wrote:Am I correct in saying that Kale's super saiyan form is nowhere near as strong as SSB Goku and Golden Frieza?
    She defeated Golden Freeza, she slapped Toppo and SSB Vegeta away and she defeated Anilaza. Yes, she is, no matter how incompetent Toyo is at portraying that strength during her scuffle with the Pride Troopers.

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    Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

    Post by Rhuagh » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:20 pm

    The gr wrote:WTF Base Gohan deflected a ki blast from SSJ Kefla like it was nothing.
      Next month is gonna be the biggest shitshow, R.I.P to the powerscaling in the manga.
      He is Ultimate. Look at the way his eyes are drawn.

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      Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

      Post by Omniboy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:22 pm

      Doctor. wrote:
      Omniboy wrote:Am I correct in saying that Kale's super saiyan form is nowhere near as strong as SSB Goku and Golden Frieza?
      She defeated Golden Freeza, she slapped Toppo and SSB Vegeta away and she defeated Anilaza. Yes, she is, no matter how incompetent Toyo is at portraying that strength during her scuffle with the Pride Troopers.


      But Frieza stated that he wasn't even trying. Vegeta and Toppo were caught off guard. And Anilaza's strength from the anime doesn't translate into the manga.

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