Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:37 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
shadd21 wrote:With all this goalpost shifting regarding Beerus’ power, i’m inclined to believe Beerus only used less than 20% of his power against SSG Goku during BoG.

Try like .00000002% of his power
yeah that seems more accurate to be honest even though I would imagine you're saying that in a hyperbolic type of way.
GodVegetto91 wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:
shadd21 wrote:With all this goalpost shifting regarding Beerus’ power, i’m inclined to believe Beerus only used less than 20% of his power against SSG Goku during BoG.

Try like .00000002% of his power
Nah more like .0000000000000000000000000001% of his power. And i’m not even joking. They might even retcon his strength again at a later point in the story to where he is then above SSJ Blue Gogeta and Broly combined.
you're definitely joking lol. I'm pretty sure he used more than like 10^-20% of his power. At this point it is an extremely small amount but not THAT small

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:56 pm

Even if you lowball him Beerus literally used less than a millionth of his power.

User avatar
supersaiyangodgogeta
Regular
Posts: 588
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:04 pm

Beerus used 10% against SSJ2 Vegeta and more power against Goku. The amounts that people are stating here completely contradict what was already stated in the story.

RecolorSaiyan
Regular
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:40 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:08 pm

supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Beerus used 10% against SSJ2 Vegeta and more power against Goku. The amounts that people are stating here completely contradict what was already stated in the story.

Those lines were just fuckups by the anime staff early in super. There is no way he used 10% vs Vegeta and more vs SSG Goku considering ssb kkx10 goku at the u6 tournament was no match for him

User avatar
Kenneth La Torre
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1584
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:18 pm

Beerus hasnt been retcon, we just never knew his limits and no opponent was ever compared to him. Jiren was in the domain beerus encompased, but as it turns out that didnt put him as strong as beerus.

Broly has been the first ever antagonist to be at least compared to him. It took 5 arcs, but now we have someone that is officially stated in canon.
Goku didnt even compare jiren to beerus.

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:22 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:Even if you lowball him Beerus literally used less than a millionth of his power.
a millionth as a lowball? How do you figure? Could you elaborate?

User avatar
Son-Kakaroto
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Son-Kakaroto » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:26 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Beerus used 10% against SSJ2 Vegeta and more power against Goku. The amounts that people are stating here completely contradict what was already stated in the story.

Those lines were just fuckups by the anime staff early in super. There is no way he used 10% vs Vegeta and more vs SSG Goku considering ssb kkx10 goku at the u6 tournament was no match for him
lol, so we should just disregard what the shows states, and just follow after your headcanon? Yeah, sure dude.

User avatar
TheSaiyanGod
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:27 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:Beerus hasnt been retcon, we just never knew his limits and no opponent was ever compared to him. Jiren was in the domain beerus encompased, but as it turns out that didnt put him as strong as beerus.

Broly has been the first ever antagonist to be at least compared to him. It took 5 arcs, but now we have someone that is officially stated in canon.
Goku didnt even compare jiren to beerus.
I thought it was common sense that Jiren is stronger than Beerus ...

Whis basically confirmed that Jiren was the stronger human than a GoD (who was stronger than Beerus). At the end of the tournament, Jiren went far beyond his limits and even surpassed for a moment MUI Goku (also stronger than Beerus).

Goku said that Broly maybe can be stronger than Beerus, not a confirmation. At most, Broly is comparable to him, which means that Jiren is still stronger than the two

RecolorSaiyan
Regular
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:40 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:28 pm

Son-Kakaroto wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Beerus used 10% against SSJ2 Vegeta and more power against Goku. The amounts that people are stating here completely contradict what was already stated in the story.

Those lines were just fuckups by the anime staff early in super. There is no way he used 10% vs Vegeta and more vs SSG Goku considering ssb kkx10 goku at the u6 tournament was no match for him
lol, so we should just disregard what the shows states, and just follow after your headcanon? Yeah, sure dude.

Its not my headcanon when whis literally compared RoF versions of goku/veg to tiny stump and beerus to a castle in the sky or the fact that ssbkkx10 goku wasn't shit to beerus. M Zamasu and Vegito freaking Blue in the anime were nothing to beerus. I mean if you wanna delude yourself and think beerus used 10% + vs goku in BoG then be my guest but good lucking trying to rationalize why ssb version of goku isn't able to utterly cave beerus skull in

User avatar
Son-Kakaroto
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Son-Kakaroto » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:30 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Beerus hasnt been retcon, we just never knew his limits and no opponent was ever compared to him. Jiren was in the domain beerus encompased, but as it turns out that didnt put him as strong as beerus.

Broly has been the first ever antagonist to be at least compared to him. It took 5 arcs, but now we have someone that is officially stated in canon.
Goku didnt even compare jiren to beerus.
I thought it was common sense that Jiren is stronger than Beerus ...

Whis basically confirmed that Jiren was the stronger human than a GoD (who was stronger than Beerus). At the end of the tournament, Jiren went far beyond his limits and even surpassed for a moment MUI Goku (also stronger than Beerus).

Goku said that Broly may be stronger than Beerus, not a statement. At most, Broly is comparable to him, which means that Jiren is still stronger than the two
You're using the TV show to decipher the movie, which isn't a direct continutation of the tv show (if it were, ssbe and kaioken would be in the movie), but your point is compelling. I'd have to dissagree with you because it's stated broly is the strongest foe they'd ever face. That whis statement was only in the tv show, and so toriyama may not have included that in his dragon ball super story.

User avatar
ZombieVito
I Live Here
Posts: 4411
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:37 pm

I really wish Toriyama or some guide would state the multipliers for SSG and Blue.

Would make things way more easier to understand.

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:37 pm

Throw the power levels/percentages and the ambiguous statements about Beerus out the window people.

The guy is Goku's benchmark. Plot armor. If Goku fought the Grand Priest, Whis will say; "Father might be stronger than Beerus." :lol:

superfan2024
Regular
Posts: 657
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by superfan2024 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:00 pm

FT Arc Vegetto = Gogeta > Broly > Jiren > Beerus > Fused Zamasu

???

User avatar
Kenneth La Torre
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1584
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:16 pm

superfan2024 wrote:FT Arc Vegetto = Gogeta > Broly > Jiren > Beerus > Fused Zamasu

???
No. Current goku and vegeta are far superior to their FT saga selfs. At best, you can put FT arc vegito blue close to or at Lss broly, since both have in canon (tho one in manga and the other on movie) statements that are the same when compared to beerus. Ssb gogeta is cleanly superior to Lss Broly. UI goku and jiren dont have in canon statements comparing them to beerus. Merged zamasu is bottom of the barrel here.

It would be something like

Gogeta blue > Lss broly ~ FT Vegito Blue ~ Beerus ~ > UIGoku > Jiren > Merged Zamasu.

User avatar
ZombieVito
I Live Here
Posts: 4411
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 am

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
superfan2024 wrote:FT Arc Vegetto = Gogeta > Broly > Jiren > Beerus > Fused Zamasu

???
No. Current goku and vegeta are far superior to their FT saga selfs. At best, you can put FT arc vegito blue close to or at Lss broly, since both have in canon (tho one in manga and the other on movie) statements that are the same when compared to beerus. Ssb gogeta is cleanly superior to Lss Broly. UI goku and jiren dont have in canon statements comparing them to beerus. Merged zamasu is bottom of the barrel here.

It would be something like

Gogeta blue > Lss broly ~ FT Vegito Blue ~ Beerus ~ > UIGoku > Jiren > Merged Zamasu.
Citation needed.

UI Omen Goku was already on Beerus level going by official preview material so mastered UI is stronger than Beerus and so is Jiren. SSB Vegetto from the FT arc is on par Beerus.

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:49 am

ZombieVito wrote:UI Omen Goku was already on Beerus level going by official preview material so mastered UI is stronger than Beerus and so is Jiren. SSB Vegetto from the FT arc is on par Beerus.
See this logic would work really well like 24 hours ago, but the movie seems to have retconned things to now be Beerus>Jiren
RecolorSaiyan wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:

Those lines were just fuckups by the anime staff early in super. There is no way he used 10% vs Vegeta and more vs SSG Goku considering ssb kkx10 goku at the u6 tournament was no match for him
lol, so we should just disregard what the shows states, and just follow after your headcanon? Yeah, sure dude.

Its not my headcanon when whis literally compared RoF versions of goku/veg to tiny stump and beerus to a castle in the sky or the fact that ssbkkx10 goku wasn't shit to beerus. M Zamasu and Vegito freaking Blue in the anime were nothing to beerus. I mean if you wanna delude yourself and think beerus used 10% + vs goku in BoG then be my guest but good lucking trying to rationalize why ssb version of goku isn't able to utterly cave beerus skull in
Yeah Pretty much. There's basically no way in hell that we can make the 10% statement about Rage Vegeta work at all. The best we can do is assume that Beerus lied about 10% just as he lied about 100%. I doubt that's what they intended exactly, but it works In-Universe because Beerus lied about one it makes sense that he would lie for the other.

Goku retained the power of SSG as a SSJ, and then he got stronger than that by training with Whis and Whis is shocked by his progress but STILL says that he and Vegeta are tree stumps to the level of Gods being a literal fucking castle on a mountain.

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:06 am

Not even fusion would of beat Beerus in BOG. Then claims 60-70% of his power was used against SSJG.
In ROF, Whis said Goku and Vegeta as two Blue's together might be able to fight Beerus head up.
In U6 arc Beerus casually challenged Goku after seeing his Blue KKX10.
In the manga, an angry Beerus casually stomps MSSB Vegeta. Knocking the hair dye out.
Beerus dances on gods in Exhibition match in the manga, they couldn't keep up. A handful of them needed to be "saved" from his attack [Including Belmond].
In TOP, was shocked that Jiren had a high power, then smiles and cracks knuckles at Ultra Instinct Omen. Then stands smiling at True Ultra Instinct.

Plot Armor Beerus.

User avatar
Son-Kakaroto
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Son-Kakaroto » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:24 am

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:

Those lines were just fuckups by the anime staff early in super. There is no way he used 10% vs Vegeta and more vs SSG Goku considering ssb kkx10 goku at the u6 tournament was no match for him
lol, so we should just disregard what the shows states, and just follow after your headcanon? Yeah, sure dude.

Its not my headcanon when whis literally compared RoF versions of goku/veg to tiny stump and beerus to a castle in the sky or the fact that ssbkkx10 goku wasn't shit to beerus. M Zamasu and Vegito freaking Blue in the anime were nothing to beerus. I mean if you wanna delude yourself and think beerus used 10% + vs goku in BoG then be my guest but good lucking trying to rationalize why ssb version of goku isn't able to utterly cave beerus skull in
It is. Berrus used 10% of his power to one-shot rage vegeta, that does not contradict anything in the show. You saying he used 10% against god goku is interjecting your headcanon. Your
ssbkkx10 goku wasn't shit to beerus. M Zamasu and Vegito freaking Blue in the anime were nothing to beerus
is more headcanon as well, since the show does not state any of that. Heck, berrus was sweating at ssj blue kaioken x 10... so yeah. If you continue to interject your headcanon as facts then you won't be getting a reply from me any longer.

User avatar
RandomGuy96
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8822
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:43 am

superfan2024 wrote:FT Arc Vegetto = Gogeta > Broly > Jiren > Beerus > Fused Zamasu

???
From the summaries, Jiren is never compared to Broly. Barring new information the order would be:

Buff Jiren > UI Goku > Jiren > Vegetto > Gogeta > Broly >= Beerus > Fused Zamasu

Vegetto is called out as stronger than Beerus in the manga and Fused Zamasu is called out as steonger than Beerus in the anime (via the "greatest power I've ever felt" comment, which should include the power Whis used to knock out Beerus those two times). Anime Jiren at an ultra suppressed level is also said to be stronger than every previous power Vegeta and Kaioshin sensed, which would include Beerus cutting loose against Champa. And of course, anime Belmond is directly said to be stronger than Beerus, while manga Belmond is implicitly shown to be stronger than Beerus.

People being compared to Beerus isn't new, he just isn't that big of a deal anymore (or at least he wouldn't be if UI wasn't written out and fusion wasn't treated as off the table). Though he still functions as a convenient measuring stick. Much like Cell did for Dabra.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

User avatar
TheUltimateNinja
I Live Here
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:11 am

PFM18 wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Even if you lowball him Beerus literally used less than a millionth of his power.
a millionth as a lowball? How do you figure? Could you elaborate?
Ah, sure.

SSG Goku: 1
SSB Goku: 50
SSB Goku (ToP): 1,000 (A lot stronger than U6 Kaioken x10)
UIO Goku: 100,000 (Much stronger than SSBKKx20 + Genki Dama)
UIO Goku 2: 250,000
UIO Goku 3: 500,000
MUI Goku: 2,000,000
Beerus: 2,500,000

Don't think you could possibly have a smaller gap than this.

Post Reply