Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ruler9871
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Sat May 11, 2019 3:18 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:15 pm
I’m confused. Why SS Kale’s power should factor on Base Kafla’s power? I’m obviously talking about their regular states.
Because Base fusions are always stronger than their individual parts strongest form (except UI).

Base Vegito isn't just Base Goku x Base Vegeta for example. If that were true then there's no way SSJ1 Vegito would be been that much stronger than Buuhan in Z.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Hugo Boss
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat May 11, 2019 3:24 pm

Why Ultra Instinct is an exception though? Is this an official explanation or you came up with it yourself?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Sat May 11, 2019 3:32 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:24 pm
Why Ultra Instinct is an exception though? Is this an official explanation or you came up with it yourself?
Because in Heroes, MUI Goku was portrayed as stronger than both Post-ToP SSB Vegito & SSJ4 Xeno Vegito.

It has never been stated or shown otherwise in any other media.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat May 11, 2019 3:51 pm

It's an unknown how MUI compares with fusions.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by AvatarReiko » Sat May 11, 2019 4:04 pm

How does Kafla compare to Merged Zamasu in the manga?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sat May 11, 2019 4:05 pm

Miracles wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:51 pm
It's an unknown how MUI compares with fusions.
Not exactly. It's much stronger.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sat May 11, 2019 4:17 pm

AvatarReiko wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:04 pm
How does Kafla compare to Merged Zamasu in the manga?
In heroes? Because in the actual DBS manga, not much is to be said.
My posts will speak for myself! :)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat May 11, 2019 4:31 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:05 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:51 pm
It's an unknown how MUI compares with fusions.
Not exactly. It's much stronger.
Where was this stated?
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat May 11, 2019 4:45 pm

While direct statements haven't been made in the main series, feats analysis and scaling put it at the MINIMUM in the same ballpark as SSB Fusion a.k.a. beyond any God of Destruction, but I think it's intended to be much higher as the new "even greater than Fusion or God of Destruction" type of power.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Sat May 11, 2019 6:11 pm

ruler9871 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:32 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:24 pm
Why Ultra Instinct is an exception though? Is this an official explanation or you came up with it yourself?
Because in Heroes, MUI Goku was portrayed as stronger than both Post-ToP SSB Vegito & SSJ4 Xeno Vegito.

It has never been stated or shown otherwise in any other media.
Heroes is irrelevant to the main series.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nokra » Sat May 11, 2019 6:23 pm

Bullza wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 2:48 pm
Nokra wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:47 am
By comparison Gohan got beat on by a weak yardrat who Freeza made his bitch in just base form
That was Base Gohan though so that's not really saying anything. Goku went Super Saiyan for him also.

There's really not that much separating them and you could make arguments for both. Android 17 was soon overpowered by Toppo but Ultimate Gohan defeated Koichiarator who was overpowering Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta at the same time.

He also defeated Dyspo and matched Saonel and Pirina at the same time. Android 17 didn't really beat anyone of any worth except Aniraza but that was under a unique circumstance anyway.
Doesn't matter. The fact is that he got beat down by a weakling who Freeza toyed with in base. Goku and Vegeta clearly weren't trying and just gave up and let Gohan fight that fodder-bot. That whole episode was just created to throw a bone to the crying gohan fanboys upset that there was no "gohan blanco" anyway. Toppo overpowered gohan and gohan fired a full power kamehameha that did nothing so whats your point? Dypso was fodder. 17 could've just put up a barrier, tired him out with his infinite energy hax then beat his ass all by himself without help. the namekians were fodder and gohan needed the help of his surrogate daddy to beat them. PATHETIC! 17 was the first person to damage jiren and put him on his knees. that is a better feat than ANYTHING lamehan did throughout his entire mediocre run in the ToP.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat May 11, 2019 7:42 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:45 pm
While direct statements haven't been made in the main series, feats analysis and scaling put it at the MINIMUM in the same ballpark as SSB Fusion a.k.a. beyond any God of Destruction, but I think it's intended to be much higher as the new "even greater than Fusion or God of Destruction" type of power.
That is assumption, my friend.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat May 11, 2019 8:16 pm

Miracles wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 7:42 pm
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:45 pm
While direct statements haven't been made in the main series, feats analysis and scaling put it at the MINIMUM in the same ballpark as SSB Fusion a.k.a. beyond any God of Destruction, but I think it's intended to be much higher as the new "even greater than Fusion or God of Destruction" type of power.
That is assumption, my friend.
Perhaps, but it's certainly not an unreasonable one and fits both narratively AND logically. Unlike certain folks, I'm secure enough with myself to admit that it's just my own personal take on things. Admitting your take is only yours and not the truth goes a long way to ensuring better interactions in a debate.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Sat May 11, 2019 8:21 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:11 pm
ruler9871 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:32 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:24 pm
Why Ultra Instinct is an exception though? Is this an official explanation or you came up with it yourself?
Because in Heroes, MUI Goku was portrayed as stronger than both Post-ToP SSB Vegito & SSJ4 Xeno Vegito.

It has never been stated or shown otherwise in any other media.
Heroes is irrelevant to the main series.
The scaling is mostly the same as far as transformations go. So its a valid argument.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat May 11, 2019 8:22 pm

Nokra wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:23 pm
Doesn't matter.
Uhh yes it does, Base Gohan doesn't represent Ultimate Gohan. Using his performance against Jimeze to determine his higher end doesn't even make any sense. People already know that Base Gohan isn't as strong as Android 17. That wasn't the discussion.
Dypso was fodder.
No he wasn't, he was almost the opposite of fodder actually. Oddly enough the only people that Android 17 eliminated were actually fodder.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun May 12, 2019 2:05 am

ruler9871 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:21 pm
PFM18 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:11 pm
ruler9871 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:32 pm


Because in Heroes, MUI Goku was portrayed as stronger than both Post-ToP SSB Vegito & SSJ4 Xeno Vegito.

It has never been stated or shown otherwise in any other media.
Heroes is irrelevant to the main series.
The scaling is mostly the same as far as transformations go. So its a valid argument.
It's not. Go around all three continuities of heroes, you'll see that UI and fusions are inconsistent as hell. UI and Fusion in the arcade are about the same. In the manga, Vegito Blue with kaioken was on par with Golden Oozaru Cumber, and UI with ssj3 Cumber, so it's actually not easily to scale UI in the manga, and the anime is the mother of all inconsistencies. SSB Vegito was below base cumber, yet ssj4 vegito was above ssj3 cumber despite the fusees being only on par with ssb goku and vegeta, while UI Goku had to put all his power into a Kamehameha to beat base cumber... not touching the animals even with a 10 foot stick.

If we go by the main canon (arcade) UI and Fusion are on the same ball park. Not that I use heroes for scaling canon material.

Tho the correct answer as of now is that no one knows. It's all head canon for now.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun May 12, 2019 2:08 am

You know. In the situation that UI Goku battles beerus, and loses, or barely edges out a fight, I wonder how people who put UI Goku far above beerus would feel. It's not like the rematch would be one sided at all.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Sun May 12, 2019 3:29 am

ruler9871 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:21 pm
PFM18 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:11 pm
ruler9871 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:32 pm


Because in Heroes, MUI Goku was portrayed as stronger than both Post-ToP SSB Vegito & SSJ4 Xeno Vegito.

It has never been stated or shown otherwise in any other media.
Heroes is irrelevant to the main series.
The scaling is mostly the same as far as transformations go. So its a valid argument.
No, it isn't. Heroes means absolutely nothing. If you are to somehow conclude "it has the same scaling for transformations" then you are basing that on some intrinsic merit, but that that simply does not exist. Heroes/=/and that's really it. If you even attempted to do that, then you would come up with a train wreck anyway because Heroes is SUPER inconsistent.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun May 12, 2019 10:13 am

So according to a guy over on Gamefaqs, Pell (Universe 2 Kaioshin) is stronger than South Supreme Kai from Universe 7 because he trains a lot. Is this accurate? Does someone have the english translation of it?
Oh look.. A human being with an opinion.. What are the odds!?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sun May 12, 2019 11:47 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:13 am
So according to a guy over on Gamefaqs, Pell (Universe 2 Kaioshin) is stronger than South Supreme Kai from Universe 7 because he trains a lot. Is this accurate? Does someone have the english translation of it?
It was already confirmed when all the Universes Kaioshins and Hakaishins were revealed two years ago. It's in his bio I think.

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