Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ZombieVito
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:21 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:10 am
The way I see it, 17 and Gohan seem to be in a similar level of power to Ikari Broly before he powered up further to fight Goku, the one that was stronger than SSG Vegeta.

Still fodder to SSB, but definitely solidly at a massively high power level compared to anything before god power came up.
But you can't rival someone and be fodder to them at the same time.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:59 pm

Miracles wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:57 am
Gohan only "rivaled" Blue Goku before the TOP. During the TOP Gohan couldn't bust a grape against Toppo. Whom Blue Vegeta was battling evenly. I think we can legitimately define Gohan's power as noticeably below Blue at the time of the TOP.
Not to mention,a Blue Goku that kept sandbagging the whole fight until he 1 shot his son. That whole fight to me seemed like the writers were confused themselves with what they wanted to get across to the viewers, not to mention it would completely diminish the significance of SSG, and SSB (aka God ki) by having Gohan train with a no-name Namek and close such a chasm that even Goku himself thought wasn't even attainable or even imaginable.

Keep in mind this is also where they have a Krillin take out a Gohan, and and Krillin that "forces" Goku into SSJ, as well as has a beam struggle with a the same Blue Goku.

More than anything I think those scenes are there to show the resilience of Krillin in the face a very powerful enemies ( they did a poor job at doing that with Goku though. Gohan i felt was a better portrayal but still meh. And the Gohan scene was to show the viewers that the Gohan of old was back in business and was putting his books down to brawl. Again, they did this at the expense of everything Goku has attained up to this point. Ultimately, it is what is it. But Gohan rivaling SSB? Nah.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:55 pm

ssj3kakarot wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:59 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:57 am
Gohan only "rivaled" Blue Goku before the TOP. During the TOP Gohan couldn't bust a grape against Toppo. Whom Blue Vegeta was battling evenly. I think we can legitimately define Gohan's power as noticeably below Blue at the time of the TOP.
Not to mention,a Blue Goku that kept sandbagging the whole fight until he 1 shot his son. That whole fight to me seemed like the writers were confused themselves with what they wanted to get across to the viewers, not to mention it would completely diminish the significance of SSG, and SSB (aka God ki) by having Gohan train with a no-name Namek and close such a chasm that even Goku himself thought wasn't even attainable or even imaginable.

Keep in mind this is also where they have a Krillin take out a Gohan, and and Krillin that "forces" Goku into SSJ, as well as has a beam struggle with a the same Blue Goku.

More than anything I think those scenes are there to show the resilience of Krillin in the face a very powerful enemies ( they did a poor job at doing that with Goku though. Gohan i felt was a better portrayal but still meh. And the Gohan scene was to show the viewers that the Gohan of old was back in business and was putting his books down to brawl. Again, they did this at the expense of everything Goku has attained up to this point. Ultimately, it is what is it. But Gohan rivaling SSB? Nah.
Yeah, ultimately it's just a lot of bad/contradictory writing by TOEI. They are all over the place.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:04 pm

ssj3kakarot wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:59 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:57 am
Gohan only "rivaled" Blue Goku before the TOP. During the TOP Gohan couldn't bust a grape against Toppo. Whom Blue Vegeta was battling evenly. I think we can legitimately define Gohan's power as noticeably below Blue at the time of the TOP.
Not to mention,a Blue Goku that kept sandbagging the whole fight until he 1 shot his son. That whole fight to me seemed like the writers were confused themselves with what they wanted to get across to the viewers, not to mention it would completely diminish the significance of SSG, and SSB (aka God ki) by having Gohan train with a no-name Namek and close such a chasm that even Goku himself thought wasn't even attainable or even imaginable.

Keep in mind this is also where they have a Krillin take out a Gohan, and and Krillin that "forces" Goku into SSJ, as well as has a beam struggle with a the same Blue Goku.

More than anything I think those scenes are there to show the resilience of Krillin in the face a very powerful enemies ( they did a poor job at doing that with Goku though. Gohan i felt was a better portrayal but still meh. And the Gohan scene was to show the viewers that the Gohan of old was back in business and was putting his books down to brawl. Again, they did this at the expense of everything Goku has attained up to this point. Ultimately, it is what is it. But Gohan rivaling SSB? Nah.
'Rivaling' doesn't mean equal. Like Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is constantly said to 'rival the gods', yet we know it doesn't equal to any God of Destruction. Heck, Gowasu said Super Saiyan 2 Goku 'rivaled' a God of Destruction.
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Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:34 pm

HeroR wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:04 pm
ssj3kakarot wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:59 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:57 am
Gohan only "rivaled" Blue Goku before the TOP. During the TOP Gohan couldn't bust a grape against Toppo. Whom Blue Vegeta was battling evenly. I think we can legitimately define Gohan's power as noticeably below Blue at the time of the TOP.
Not to mention,a Blue Goku that kept sandbagging the whole fight until he 1 shot his son. That whole fight to me seemed like the writers were confused themselves with what they wanted to get across to the viewers, not to mention it would completely diminish the significance of SSG, and SSB (aka God ki) by having Gohan train with a no-name Namek and close such a chasm that even Goku himself thought wasn't even attainable or even imaginable.

Keep in mind this is also where they have a Krillin take out a Gohan, and and Krillin that "forces" Goku into SSJ, as well as has a beam struggle with a the same Blue Goku.

More than anything I think those scenes are there to show the resilience of Krillin in the face a very powerful enemies ( they did a poor job at doing that with Goku though. Gohan i felt was a better portrayal but still meh. And the Gohan scene was to show the viewers that the Gohan of old was back in business and was putting his books down to brawl. Again, they did this at the expense of everything Goku has attained up to this point. Ultimately, it is what is it. But Gohan rivaling SSB? Nah.
'Rivaling' doesn't mean equal. Like Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is constantly said to 'rival the gods', yet we know it doesn't equal to any God of Destruction. Heck, Gowasu said Super Saiyan 2 Goku 'rivaled' a God of Destruction.
This is true. However, people take the narrators statement of Gohan "rivaling" Goku at face value cause he traded with Blue at that time. Then can't even put up a fight against Toppo with 17 in the TOP whom Blue Vegeta was trading with alone. Next we have Gohan exchanging with Dyspo [who punked SSJG earlier] in a restricted cage, not able to use his Hyper speed mode. Who was slightly stronger than Golden Freeza. I think it is safe to put Gohan below Blue now.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by omegacwa » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:31 pm

I haven't posted on this board since 2011. Wow, a lot has happened since then.

My thoughts on the strength scale based on the end of super/new Broly movie.

1. Zeno
2. Grand Priest
3. Angels
4. Gogeta/Vegetto (raw strength alone has to be higher than MUI)
5. Beerus and the other G.o.D. (indeterminable)/MUI Goku
6. Jiren/Broly
7. Merged Zamasu/Evolution Vegeta (Loved ones power up)
8. G. o. D. Toppo/Kefla (Honestly not sure on Kefla placement other than stronger than SSB Goku)
9. Kaioken x20 SSB Goku/Evolution Vegeta
10. Dyspo/Golden Freeza(TOP)/Hit(TOP)/Goku and Vegeta (TOP)
11. Berserk Kale
12. Goku Black/SSB Vegeta and Goku (Pre Tournament)
13. Trunks
14. Gohan
15. Fat Buu/Trio De Dangers/Ribrianne(Not sure on placement)
16. Caulifla (SSJ2)/Cabba(SSJ2)
17. Android 17/Frost?
18. Piccolo
19. Android 18
20. Tenshinhan
21. Krillin
22. Roshi

This is just a rough estimation. I wasn't going to go through and place all the irrelevant characters but I think I hit the most important ones.

Also, side note: I saw someone on instagram claim that Goku is astronomically stronger than Vegeta because in the Broly movie Goku at base fights (albeit for just a few seconds) the same Broly that Vegeta fought at SSJG. (Clearly this person was disregarding the fact that Vegeta's fighting style is "get things over quick" so he transformed faster and then was "tagged out" before the fight actually took off.) This statement is baseless and completely ludicrous.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:14 pm

omegacwa wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:31 pm
I haven't posted on this board since 2011. Wow, a lot has happened since then.

My thoughts on the strength scale based on the end of super/new Broly movie.

1. Zeno
2. Grand Priest
3. Angels
4. Gogeta/Vegetto (raw strength alone has to be higher than MUI)
5. Beerus and the other G.o.D. (indeterminable)/MUI Goku
6. Jiren/Broly
7. Merged Zamasu/Evolution Vegeta (Loved ones power up)
8. G. o. D. Toppo/Kefla (Honestly not sure on Kefla placement other than stronger than SSB Goku)
9. Kaioken x20 SSB Goku/Evolution Vegeta
10. Dyspo/Golden Freeza(TOP)/Hit(TOP)/Goku and Vegeta (TOP)
11. Berserk Kale
12. Goku Black/SSB Vegeta and Goku (Pre Tournament)
13. Trunks
14. Gohan
15. Fat Buu/Trio De Dangers/Ribrianne(Not sure on placement)
16. Caulifla (SSJ2)/Cabba(SSJ2)
17. Android 17/Frost?
18. Piccolo
19. Android 18
20. Tenshinhan
21. Krillin
22. Roshi

This is just a rough estimation. I wasn't going to go through and place all the irrelevant characters but I think I hit the most important ones.

Also, side note: I saw someone on instagram claim that Goku is astronomically stronger than Vegeta because in the Broly movie Goku at base fights (albeit for just a few seconds) the same Broly that Vegeta fought at SSJG. (Clearly this person was disregarding the fact that Vegeta's fighting style is "get things over quick" so he transformed faster and then was "tagged out" before the fight actually took off.) This statement is baseless and completely ludicrous.
Welcome back, then
I pretty much agree with the list, though I would place Jiren and Broly above the Hakaishin, there were many statements and feats considering them stronger. Jiren is at least above a number of them even before going crazy, and is definitely stronger than all of them after ripping his shirt off.
I'd take Dyspo a few steps down, he is a weird fighter, he is SSG tier in raw strenght but his speed can outdo stronger characters. He takes as much damage from Golden Freeza as Gohan, so I'd find a common ground lower than the blues and next to ToP Gohan and 17, who I'd place above Trunks and slightly above Dyspo and Gohan

Enraged MUI
MUI/Gogeta Blue/Limit Breaker Jiren
FP Broly
Jiren / Strongest hakaishin
SS Broly
GoD Toppo/boost SSBE Vegeta/ Merged Zamasu/Vegito Blue (FT arc)
SS2 Kefla
blue tier people
17>Gohan>Dyspo

About the movie, Goku and Vegeta are clearly at the same level, I guess those people forgot that the awesome POV of Broly going through the ice mountains was when he was trashing base Goku who later goes SS and still can't do a thing and has to go SSGod and goes aikido on Broly to hold him until he powers up once more. I do think Goku is somewhat stronger and that he probably is more aclimatted to that transformation than Vegeta that would explain that relaxed, peaceful thing he did on Broly.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by omegacwa » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:52 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:14 pm
omegacwa wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:31 pm
I haven't posted on this board since 2011. Wow, a lot has happened since then.

My thoughts on the strength scale based on the end of super/new Broly movie.

1. Zeno
2. Grand Priest
3. Angels
4. Gogeta/Vegetto (raw strength alone has to be higher than MUI)
5. Beerus and the other G.o.D. (indeterminable)/MUI Goku
6. Jiren/Broly
7. Merged Zamasu/Evolution Vegeta (Loved ones power up)
8. G. o. D. Toppo/Kefla (Honestly not sure on Kefla placement other than stronger than SSB Goku)
9. Kaioken x20 SSB Goku/Evolution Vegeta
10. Dyspo/Golden Freeza(TOP)/Hit(TOP)/Goku and Vegeta (TOP)
11. Berserk Kale
12. Goku Black/SSB Vegeta and Goku (Pre Tournament)
13. Trunks
14. Gohan
15. Fat Buu/Trio De Dangers/Ribrianne(Not sure on placement)
16. Caulifla (SSJ2)/Cabba(SSJ2)
17. Android 17/Frost?
18. Piccolo
19. Android 18
20. Tenshinhan
21. Krillin
22. Roshi

This is just a rough estimation. I wasn't going to go through and place all the irrelevant characters but I think I hit the most important ones.

Also, side note: I saw someone on instagram claim that Goku is astronomically stronger than Vegeta because in the Broly movie Goku at base fights (albeit for just a few seconds) the same Broly that Vegeta fought at SSJG. (Clearly this person was disregarding the fact that Vegeta's fighting style is "get things over quick" so he transformed faster and then was "tagged out" before the fight actually took off.) This statement is baseless and completely ludicrous.
Welcome back, then
I pretty much agree with the list, though I would place Jiren and Broly above the Hakaishin, there were many statements and feats considering them stronger. Jiren is at least above a number of them even before going crazy, and is definitely stronger than all of them after ripping his shirt off.
I'd take Dyspo a few steps down, he is a weird fighter, he is SSG tier in raw strenght but his speed can outdo stronger characters. He takes as much damage from Golden Freeza as Gohan, so I'd find a common ground lower than the blues and next to ToP Gohan and 17, who I'd place above Trunks and slightly above Dyspo and Gohan

Enraged MUI
MUI/Gogeta Blue/Limit Breaker Jiren
FP Broly
Jiren / Strongest hakaishin
SS Broly
GoD Toppo/boost SSBE Vegeta/ Merged Zamasu/Vegito Blue (FT arc)
SS2 Kefla
blue tier people
17>Gohan>Dyspo

About the movie, Goku and Vegeta are clearly at the same level, I guess those people forgot that the awesome POV of Broly going through the ice mountains was when he was trashing base Goku who later goes SS and still can't do a thing and has to go SSGod and goes aikido on Broly to hold him until he powers up once more. I do think Goku is somewhat stronger and that he probably is more aclimatted to that transformation than Vegeta that would explain that relaxed, peaceful thing he did on Broly.
I personally feel there is no way Android 17 is as strong as people are saying. I think he’s just very tactical and plays to his strengths plus the whole infinite energy thing makes him a dangerous opponent.

The G.o.D. Are impossible to determine. We never see them fight other than Beerus. And pretty much all we have to go off of is “Broly might be stronger than Beerus”.

To me there is a clear difference between experience, fighting skill, and certain abilities vs raw strength. For instance there is no way MUI Goku is stronger than Gogeta. Since Gogeta is Goku + Vegeta multipled. The technique of MUI is a broken, ill thought out power up that’s the “ultimate trump card”. While I believe MUI Goku can beat astronomically stronger opponents I don’t believe it has anything to do with strength itself. As I believe Jiren is, in fact, “stronger” than Goku. But that doesn’t mean he can’t be beat.
For instance let’s say Goku can lift 500lbs and Jiren can lift 1000lbs. Jiren is for all intents and purposes stronger than Goku. But that doesn’t mean that using skill Goku can’t win. I believe that MUI, in its original intention, was meant to be a type of enlightenment that had absolutely nothing to with strength and could be learned by anyone but somehow ended up being a weird SSJ transformation.

I feel like a lot of ToP characters are difficult to place.
I’m also just now rereading your post and I agree with most of it. I think I got confused for a second. Discussing power levels gets really confusing.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:22 pm

omegacwa wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:52 am
Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:14 pm
omegacwa wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:31 pm
I haven't posted on this board since 2011. Wow, a lot has happened since then.

My thoughts on the strength scale based on the end of super/new Broly movie.

1. Zeno
2. Grand Priest
3. Angels
4. Gogeta/Vegetto (raw strength alone has to be higher than MUI)
5. Beerus and the other G.o.D. (indeterminable)/MUI Goku
6. Jiren/Broly
7. Merged Zamasu/Evolution Vegeta (Loved ones power up)
8. G. o. D. Toppo/Kefla (Honestly not sure on Kefla placement other than stronger than SSB Goku)
9. Kaioken x20 SSB Goku/Evolution Vegeta
10. Dyspo/Golden Freeza(TOP)/Hit(TOP)/Goku and Vegeta (TOP)
11. Berserk Kale
12. Goku Black/SSB Vegeta and Goku (Pre Tournament)
13. Trunks
14. Gohan
15. Fat Buu/Trio De Dangers/Ribrianne(Not sure on placement)
16. Caulifla (SSJ2)/Cabba(SSJ2)
17. Android 17/Frost?
18. Piccolo
19. Android 18
20. Tenshinhan
21. Krillin
22. Roshi

This is just a rough estimation. I wasn't going to go through and place all the irrelevant characters but I think I hit the most important ones.

Also, side note: I saw someone on instagram claim that Goku is astronomically stronger than Vegeta because in the Broly movie Goku at base fights (albeit for just a few seconds) the same Broly that Vegeta fought at SSJG. (Clearly this person was disregarding the fact that Vegeta's fighting style is "get things over quick" so he transformed faster and then was "tagged out" before the fight actually took off.) This statement is baseless and completely ludicrous.
Welcome back, then
I pretty much agree with the list, though I would place Jiren and Broly above the Hakaishin, there were many statements and feats considering them stronger. Jiren is at least above a number of them even before going crazy, and is definitely stronger than all of them after ripping his shirt off.
I'd take Dyspo a few steps down, he is a weird fighter, he is SSG tier in raw strenght but his speed can outdo stronger characters. He takes as much damage from Golden Freeza as Gohan, so I'd find a common ground lower than the blues and next to ToP Gohan and 17, who I'd place above Trunks and slightly above Dyspo and Gohan

Enraged MUI
MUI/Gogeta Blue/Limit Breaker Jiren
FP Broly
Jiren / Strongest hakaishin
SS Broly
GoD Toppo/boost SSBE Vegeta/ Merged Zamasu/Vegito Blue (FT arc)
SS2 Kefla
blue tier people
17>Gohan>Dyspo

About the movie, Goku and Vegeta are clearly at the same level, I guess those people forgot that the awesome POV of Broly going through the ice mountains was when he was trashing base Goku who later goes SS and still can't do a thing and has to go SSGod and goes aikido on Broly to hold him until he powers up once more. I do think Goku is somewhat stronger and that he probably is more aclimatted to that transformation than Vegeta that would explain that relaxed, peaceful thing he did on Broly.
I personally feel there is no way Android 17 is as strong as people are saying. I think he’s just very tactical and plays to his strengths plus the whole infinite energy thing makes him a dangerous opponent.

The G.o.D. Are impossible to determine. We never see them fight other than Beerus. And pretty much all we have to go off of is “Broly might be stronger than Beerus”.

To me there is a clear difference between experience, fighting skill, and certain abilities vs raw strength. For instance there is no way MUI Goku is stronger than Gogeta. Since Gogeta is Goku + Vegeta multipled. The technique of MUI is a broken, ill thought out power up that’s the “ultimate trump card”. While I believe MUI Goku can beat astronomically stronger opponents I don’t believe it has anything to do with strength itself. As I believe Jiren is, in fact, “stronger” than Goku. But that doesn’t mean he can’t be beat.
For instance let’s say Goku can lift 500lbs and Jiren can lift 1000lbs. Jiren is for all intents and purposes stronger than Goku. But that doesn’t mean that using skill Goku can’t win. I believe that MUI, in its original intention, was meant to be a type of enlightenment that had absolutely nothing to with strength and could be learned by anyone but somehow ended up being a weird SSJ transformation.

I feel like a lot of ToP characters are difficult to place.
I’m also just now rereading your post and I agree with most of it. I think I got confused for a second. Discussing power levels gets really confusing.
I see your point, we should maybe doing two lists, in one column we have the raw power where, I agree, Jiren surpasses MUI Goku and ranks higher and maybe Broly higher than Gogeta too, for example, and another where MUI Goku ranks higher than all because he does beat the strongest Jiren ever, even though pound-for-pound he is inferior.
The list I gave is the "this guy beats this other guy" kinda list.
In the raw strenght list is where I'd put Dyspo and 17 lower, but in the other one they should be higher IMO (due to skill, superspeed, inifinte energy, etc).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Triggered Vegeta » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:51 pm

Apparently in the Goku vs Kefla Dub, Vados says Potara is a multiplication of dozens of times not just addition.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:25 pm

Triggered Vegeta wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:51 pm
Apparently in the Goku vs Kefla Dub, Vados says Potara is a multiplication of dozens of times not just addition.
Not only the dub. Anyway, whatever it is, it is greater than Super Saiyan God.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:14 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:25 pm
Triggered Vegeta wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:51 pm
Apparently in the Goku vs Kefla Dub, Vados says Potara is a multiplication of dozens of times not just addition.
Not only the dub. Anyway, whatever it is, it is greater than Super Saiyan God.
For whatever it's worth, in Dragon Ball Legends, Super Vegetto manages to get Resurrection-F Goku Blue sweat off.
Which is actually fitting with Heroes Goku:Xeno SS4 being roughly on-par with post-ToP Goku Blue, as we were told by the GT Perfect Files that SS4 was about the same level as Vegetto.
Basically Post-ToP Goku Blue~>Goku:Xeno SS4~Super Vegetto>Resurrection F Goku Blue

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by wolflonnie » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:31 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:14 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:25 pm
Triggered Vegeta wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:51 pm
Apparently in the Goku vs Kefla Dub, Vados says Potara is a multiplication of dozens of times not just addition.
Not only the dub. Anyway, whatever it is, it is greater than Super Saiyan God.
For whatever it's worth, in Dragon Ball Legends, Super Vegetto manages to get Resurrection-F Goku Blue sweat off.
Which is actually fitting with Heroes Goku:Xeno SS4 being roughly on-par with post-ToP Goku Blue, as we were told by the GT Perfect Files that SS4 was about the same level as Vegetto.
Basically Post-ToP Goku Blue~>Goku:Xeno SS4~Super Vegetto>Resurrection F Goku Blue
Any video or image?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:04 pm

omegacwa wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:31 pm
I haven't posted on this board since 2011. Wow, a lot has happened since then.

My thoughts on the strength scale based on the end of super/new Broly movie.

1. Zeno
2. Grand Priest
3. Angels
4. Gogeta/Vegetto (raw strength alone has to be higher than MUI)
5. Beerus and the other G.o.D. (indeterminable)/MUI Goku
6. Jiren/Broly
7. Merged Zamasu/Evolution Vegeta (Loved ones power up)
8. G. o. D. Toppo/Kefla (Honestly not sure on Kefla placement other than stronger than SSB Goku)
9. Kaioken x20 SSB Goku/Evolution Vegeta
10. Dyspo/Golden Freeza(TOP)/Hit(TOP)/Goku and Vegeta (TOP)
11. Berserk Kale
12. Goku Black/SSB Vegeta and Goku (Pre Tournament)
13. Trunks
14. Gohan
15. Fat Buu/Trio De Dangers/Ribrianne(Not sure on placement)
16. Caulifla (SSJ2)/Cabba(SSJ2)
17. Android 17/Frost?
18. Piccolo
19. Android 18
20. Tenshinhan
21. Krillin
22. Roshi

This is just a rough estimation. I wasn't going to go through and place all the irrelevant characters but I think I hit the most important ones.

Also, side note: I saw someone on instagram claim that Goku is astronomically stronger than Vegeta because in the Broly movie Goku at base fights (albeit for just a few seconds) the same Broly that Vegeta fought at SSJG. (Clearly this person was disregarding the fact that Vegeta's fighting style is "get things over quick" so he transformed faster and then was "tagged out" before the fight actually took off.) This statement is baseless and completely ludicrous.
The issues I have with this:

1) Kale shouldn't be that high. She can't even beat a weakened SSG Goku. She should be below Gohan.

2) You have 17 criminaly low. He should be right below Gohan.

3) Boo, Ribrianne and The Trio de Danger can't be that high. None of them reach Super Saiyan tier. The last 2 shouldn't even be higher than Piccolo or 18.

4) Kuririn is the strongest human and I'll argue Roshi beats Tenshinhan with his full power form.

ankokudaishogun
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:45 pm

wolflonnie wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:31 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:14 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:25 pm

Not only the dub. Anyway, whatever it is, it is greater than Super Saiyan God.
For whatever it's worth, in Dragon Ball Legends, Super Vegetto manages to get Resurrection-F Goku Blue sweat off.
Which is actually fitting with Heroes Goku:Xeno SS4 being roughly on-par with post-ToP Goku Blue, as we were told by the GT Perfect Files that SS4 was about the same level as Vegetto.
Basically Post-ToP Goku Blue~>Goku:Xeno SS4~Super Vegetto>Resurrection F Goku Blue
Any video or image?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuUwZdhRQVg
A correction, BTW: Super Vegetto can fight Res-F Goku Blue AND Vegeta Blue at the same time.
It's worth to remember they are their Res-F era selves, so still quite new at Blue and quite weaker than their ToP-era selves.

Still, this fits with "Not even Vegetto could defeat Beerus": Goku&Vegeta don't hit full GoD-level until ToP on their x20 forms.
Even if Vegetto could have gone SS3, he would have been much weaker than x20 his Super Saiyan form.

In short, Potara fusions are utter bullshit insane in power AND Gods of Destruction are even more bullshit strong.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:21 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:04 pm
The issues I have with this:

1) Kale shouldn't be that high. She can't even beat a weakened SSG Goku. She should be below Gohan.

2) You have 17 criminaly low. He should be right below Gohan.

3) Boo, Ribrianne and The Trio de Danger can't be that high. None of them reach Super Saiyan tier. The last 2 shouldn't even be higher than Piccolo or 18.
Speaking about Criminal ~~ Kale in her Rage form against Goku in Episode 100 was able to Walk threw KaMe and Trash Goku in SSJ-Blue form pretty convincingly. It was only in the later 110 episodes Kale got an out of context nerf that put her for "Reasons" below SSJ-Red. Kale is at least Blue tier so long as the Writers are nerf her. :wink:

Ribrianne fought a SSJ-1 Vegeta Very Evenly and Laughing about it during their fight in Episode 102, the fight only ending when Vegeta end the fight cause of his views of Ribrianne's looks.

This was Before her Rage Power Up in Episode 103 that came off even stronger, impressed Android 17 and Broke his shield.

But sadly, Like Kale, Ribrianne got an even more non-explained, out of context nerf to her level. Later episodes of the ToP arc seem to like to do that to often with Non-Universe 7 fighters. Ribrianne can easly be SSJ-1 level in Base mode and I say near SSJ-2 in Rage form level before the out of context nerf that the writers did to her.

The Trio de Danger fought SSJ-1 Levels fights more then once, hold their own against the likes of Goku, Gohan and Vegeta. Bergamo fought Goku in the Prelimaries at SSJ-1 while getting bigger and more powerful, the final fight happen with Goku going blue as well as the Final Trio Beam Struggle with them going Blue too. I say the Trio at Peak is as good as a SSJ-1 level.
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wolflonnie
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by wolflonnie » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:06 am

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:45 pm
wolflonnie wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:31 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:14 pm

For whatever it's worth, in Dragon Ball Legends, Super Vegetto manages to get Resurrection-F Goku Blue sweat off.
Which is actually fitting with Heroes Goku:Xeno SS4 being roughly on-par with post-ToP Goku Blue, as we were told by the GT Perfect Files that SS4 was about the same level as Vegetto.
Basically Post-ToP Goku Blue~>Goku:Xeno SS4~Super Vegetto>Resurrection F Goku Blue
Any video or image?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuUwZdhRQVg
A correction, BTW: Super Vegetto can fight Res-F Goku Blue AND Vegeta Blue at the same time.
It's worth to remember they are their Res-F era selves, so still quite new at Blue and quite weaker than their ToP-era selves.

Still, this fits with "Not even Vegetto could defeat Beerus": Goku&Vegeta don't hit full GoD-level until ToP on their x20 forms.
Even if Vegetto could have gone SS3, he would have been much weaker than x20 his Super Saiyan form.

In short, Potara fusions are utter bullshit insane in power AND Gods of Destruction are even more bullshit strong.
Huh, that was very interesting. Thank you so much for sharing!
Yeah it fits surprisingly well with Kefla and Gogeta against Broly.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by omegacwa » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:49 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:04 pm

The issues I have with this:

1) Kale shouldn't be that high. She can't even beat a weakened SSG Goku. She should be below Gohan.

2) You have 17 criminaly low. He should be right below Gohan.

3) Boo, Ribrianne and The Trio de Danger can't be that high. None of them reach Super Saiyan tier. The last 2 shouldn't even be higher than Piccolo or 18.

4) Kuririn is the strongest human and I'll argue Roshi beats Tenshinhan with his full power form.
Fat Buu is at least in the Ballpark of SSJ2. Notice I also mention I'm not sure of placement on those three because of conflicting things shown to us in the anime. Bergamo is at least SSJ 1 or higher. Ribrianne is definitely SSJ 1 or above as well. Maybe drop all three of them (Buu, dangers, Ribrianne) below Caulifla and Cabba.

Kale might be too high now that I'm looking at it again.

I stand by my point that 17 is not that strong. He is a skilled and tactical fighter with infinite energy as his advantage. That doesn't mean he's powerful.

The human characters are extremely debatable. Krillin/Tien are interchangeable in my mind unless you believe Krillin's time on namek put him far beyond any gap Tien might have been able to close.

Roshi is definitely not stronger than Tien or Krillin but he is an incredibly skilled fighter and might be able to beat them from that stand point alone.

EDIT: Revised list

1. Zeno
2. Grand Priest
3. Angels
4. Gogeta/Vegetto (raw strength alone has to be higher than MUI)
5. Mui Goku/Beerus?
6. Jiren/Broly/Beerus?
7. Merged Zamasu/Evolution Vegeta Full Power
8. G. o. D. Toppo/Kefla (Honestly not sure on Kefla placement other than stronger than SSB Goku)
9. Kaioken x20 SSB Goku/Evolution Vegeta
10. Hit(TOP)/Goku and Vegeta (TOP)
11. Goku Black/SSB Vegeta and Goku (Pre Tournament)/Golden Freeza(TOP)
12. SSJ2 Rage Trunks
13. Gohan/Dyspo
14. Fat Buu
15. Berserk Kale
16. Caulifla (SSJ2)/Cabba(SSJ2)/Android 17/Ribrianne
17. Trio De Dangers
18. Piccolo
19. Android 18
20. Tenshinhan/Krillin
21. Roshi

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Hugo Boss
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:03 pm

Kale’s power is inconsistently low in the episode she mastered Berserk. It should be equal to Kafla, as it is in the manga, but lacking Caulifla’s fighting talent.

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SupremeKai25
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:44 pm

So where would everyone put the anime verison of Infinite Zamasu? The one that merged with the very fabric of the cosmos?
"Light of Divine Justice! Strike at me now! A cowering God who appeases evil can never prevail!"

Zamasu/Fused Zamasu fan.

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