Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Mad Swami
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:58 pm

Can someone explain Goku's ssb power stressed form. What does it mean he "Applies the same principals of Kaioken to the form" Does that mean he just finds a way to double his power?

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Triggered Vegeta
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Triggered Vegeta » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:20 am

I think it's pretty simple. In ep. 123 Goku = Vegeta without UI. Toppo beat up Vegeta who is = to max power KK Goku. Vegeta gets a boost, then proceeds to overpower the same Toppo who had the upper hand earlier. Vegeta did surpass Goku for that short period of time and by a good amount actually.

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Dragon Wukong
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:46 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:58 pm
Can someone explain Goku's ssb power stressed form. What does it mean he "Applies the same principals of Kaioken to the form" Does that mean he just finds a way to double his power?
He's forcing out more power at risk of harm to his body. Not necessarily doubling his strength.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:27 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:46 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:58 pm
Can someone explain Goku's ssb power stressed form. What does it mean he "Applies the same principals of Kaioken to the form" Does that mean he just finds a way to double his power?
He's forcing out more power at risk of harm to his body. Not necessarily doubling his strength.
Ok great thank you :thumbup:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sadala Elite » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:53 pm

How strong do you guys think Goku at the start of Z would be if he had MUI? Who would you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:57 pm

Even if Goku had UI, victory still would depend on battle power. That is dictated by plot.

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Hugo Boss
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:20 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:53 pm
How strong do you guys think Goku at the start of Z would be if he had MUI? Who would you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?
Probably Raditz, who was the person he needed to surpass that time.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:02 am

Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:53 pm
How strong do you guys think Goku at the start of Z would be if he had MUI? Who would you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?
Judging by the boost he got, he should be able to solo Z with the exception of Vegetto.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sadala Elite » Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:12 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:20 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:53 pm
How strong do you guys think Goku at the start of Z would be if he had MUI? Who would you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?
Probably Raditz, who was the person he needed to surpass that time.
So you think MUI is only a 3x-4x power boost? That doesn't make any sense.

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Triggered Vegeta
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Triggered Vegeta » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:00 am

Start of Z Goku with UI could prob beat Buu, if not possibly even Vegito. Like the boost is equivalent to SSB Fusion or very close to it. The boost should take him pretty far.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:20 am

Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:12 am
Hugo Boss wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:20 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:53 pm
How strong do you guys think Goku at the start of Z would be if he had MUI? Who would you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?
Probably Raditz, who was the person he needed to surpass that time.
So you think MUI is only a 3x-4x power boost? That doesn't make any sense.
MUI power depends on the original power plus martial arts SKILL.

ToP Goku would school Early Z Goku even with the same power-level just because he's a much better martial artist.

Likewise, the final output of MUI wouldn't be as proportionally great because this

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sadala Elite » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:03 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:20 am
Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:12 am
Hugo Boss wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:20 pm

Probably Raditz, who was the person he needed to surpass that time.
So you think MUI is only a 3x-4x power boost? That doesn't make any sense.
MUI power depends on the original power plus martial arts SKILL.

ToP Goku would school Early Z Goku even with the same power-level just because he's a much better martial artist.

Likewise, the final output of MUI wouldn't be as proportionally great because this
Where was it ever stated or shown that UI depends on skill?

And DBS Goku doesnt seem to be any more skilled than Z Goku (quite the opposite, actually).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:30 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:03 pm
Where was it ever stated or shown that UI depends on skill?
it's implied by Muten's version, also logic: Ultra instinct is your body moving on its own.
Greater the skill, better it can move: somebody without any real skill wouldn't be able to get their body to auto-counter attacks in an effective way.

Muten is so much skilled, he even developed a pseudo-UI out of sheer skill and experience.

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:03 pm

You guys are giving UI too much boost. You think it would allow Radditz arc Goku to beat Cell and Buu?
Are you guys basing this on Roshi's momentary performance against Jiren?

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Triggered Vegeta
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Triggered Vegeta » Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:54 pm

Miracles

Well UI Omen gave Goku such a boost that allowed him to swap hands with Jiren, who at the time was compared to the likes of Fused Zamasu. UI(Silver) allowed him to finally reach the realm of a G.O.D or even surpass it. The boost is gigantic to be able to close the gap between he and Jiren. If Goku had UI(silver) at the start of Z why wouldn't it give him a similar increase, of course at a way lower level? A SSB Fusion level increase on top of Base Goku(Raditz) wouldn't do anything in later arcs? Or would the boost be less cuz he's not as skilled as he is now?

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:50 pm

Yeah, I get what you are saying, however, we have to factor in Goku's level of battle power, at that point in the series. We are talking about a Goku who was already in a different realm of power with Super Saiyan god and Super Saiyan god Super Saiyan from Z era. It's not just Ultra Instinct's boost but the battle power variables has to be considered as well.

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Triggered Vegeta
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Triggered Vegeta » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:06 pm

Let's say he had no prior Godly transformations and we just give UI to start of Z Base Goku? Would that affect the boost received greatly, given he had no prior experience tapping into those forms?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sadala Elite » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:52 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:30 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:03 pm
Where was it ever stated or shown that UI depends on skill?
it's implied by Muten's version, also logic: Ultra instinct is your body moving on its own.
Greater the skill, better it can move: somebody without any real skill wouldn't be able to get their body to auto-counter attacks in an effective way.

Muten is so much skilled, he even developed a pseudo-UI out of sheer skill and experience.
Jiren wasn't even trying against Roshi, so I wouldn't even use that as an argument. The moment Jiren decides to use any real effort he knocks out Roshi with a gentle tap.

And "skill" means nothing if you lack the raw physical ability to hurt someone. If anything, UI makes skill less important because it removes the need for conscious effort to do anything.

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Hugo Boss
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:33 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:12 am
Hugo Boss wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:20 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:53 pm
How strong do you guys think Goku at the start of Z would be if he had MUI? Who would you guys think is the strongest character he could beat?
Probably Raditz, who was the person he needed to surpass that time.
So you think MUI is only a 3x-4x power boost? That doesn't make any sense.
I don’t know. I never thought about it in that way. I think it’s supposed to allow him to beat someone stronger each time he uses it.

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:30 pm

Triggered Vegeta wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:06 pm
Let's say he had no prior Godly transformations and we just give UI to start of Z Base Goku? Would that affect the boost received greatly, given he had no prior experience tapping into those forms?
It totally depends on the plot:
We know battle power [Ki] is what strengthens every technique/form. Without that, everything is ineffective.
Secondly, what is the power boost that Ultra Instinct gives? There is no in story explanation. Also what level do you have to be at to reach it? Didn't the Saiyans have to be at a certain battle power to reach Super Saiyan?

If I was guessing, I would say UI should be enough to beat Radditz. However, since DB's plot has the next enemy stronger than the last, Goku would have to train for the next foes.

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