Well, see, my point here is that if Vegeta is only referring to SSjB in general, then his own method of using the form doesn't really have much bearing on the question of what he's saying about SSjB's complete power - he's not necessarily making the same distinction that you're making here (or any kind of distinction, for that matter), he's just describing the means by which Goku has overcome a general weakness of the form - which is to "seal the overflowing power within his body". By describing this, Vegeta is then able to logically conclude that Goku can continuously harness the power when he couldn't before - if the power is leaching out in the aura, it naturally follows that SSjB's full power doesn't last long whichever position you take on the question. The main point is that Goku can now wield the power fully.The Undying wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:14 pmI don't disagree that Vegeta referred to Blue's weakness in more general terms, but I'm placing particular emphasis on God-Blue because "complete" Blue is the only version of the form Vegeta singled out as a continuous use of its full power. If anything, that's what Vegeta specifically attributed as the main difference between itself and the incomplete version of SSGSS - it's distinguished from previous uses because it's continuous, not necessarily because it's stronger than the standard Blue when used as a bursting transformative attack.
I guess our respective interpretations are at least partly a question of emphasis - I'm saying 'he's sealing the power, so he can continuously fight at 100%', whereas you're saying 'he's sealing the power, so he can continuously fight at 100%'. Maybe that's where this exchange ends up.
Well, if your position is that initial SSjB is so near to the power of Completed SSjB as to make no difference, then it follows that this self-same power, however briefly, is contained within their bodies, because that's what ki is - power latent within the body (albeit manipulated in various ways by the main characters); it can only be used if that's where it is kept. So, logically, there shouldn't be this much of a problem with holding power that he already is able to use in the form; sure, it might be a strain and an effort to maintain (like various SSj forms in the past have been said to be, though we've not really seen a visible consequence of it), but the explosive, damaging character of it indicates otherwise. We have to look to the 'overflowing' nature of the power to explain that most plausibly, which leads me to conclude the way I have.You mentioned the power trying to explode out of Goku during his fight with Fused Zamasu, but I think that's less symptomatic of any kind of "extra" strength and more related to the fact that neither Saiyan could contain that strength within them at the start; hence the whole need for Vegeta's God-Blue trick.
If what I've said so far seems like too pedantic and sharp a set of distinctions from your perspective, then it may be helpful to bear in mind that the distinction I'm proposing is really, at base, just a functional one - namely, that the 'extra' power was already there, but in the aura rather than within his body, so by being able to keep all of it within, in practical terms he's a lot stronger than he was when he couldn't do that (and when he's unpractised at it, it is consequently damaging to him); so, the 'full power' is the 'extra power' I'm talking about. Perhaps 'extra' isn't a helpful word.
Firstly, even though Beerus calls the impact of the punch "magnificent" (and even if you don't see "My hand even shook a bit" as turning that into a backhanded compliment - it might be a genuine compliment), Beerus immediately then relativises this by saying it's "a mere power-up from Super Saiyan God". Moreover, from that point until Vegeta uses the Complete power, he can't touch Beerus no matter what he does (and he wasn't able to break his guard even at the outset, which is an important difference with what comes after). Importantly, It's only after he uses the complete power that he can put Beerus under pressure, and Beerus himself says he's improved.My reading of that example has always been that it lends to what I'm saying, actually. When Beerus blocks Vegeta's initial attack, Beerus remarks that the moment of impact was "indeed significant" and that it made his hand shake. If that punch connected to Beerus' face, I don't doubt it would have produced a similar effect as what happened when Vegeta finally did get a clean hit in his perfected state.
This progression of events and statements, in my opinion, only really makes sense if there's an increase in usable power on Vegeta's part, rather than just using the power he initially shows.
There's been more talk about this point since then, with various clarifications, so I just want to pick up on one specific detail here - Zamas2 doesn't blitz a God-Blue switching Vegeta; he blitzes SSjB Vegeta - Vegeta went from base to SSjB before rushing Zamas2. All the characteristics of Vegeta's Blue power should therefore be there, including speed, agility, and defensive capability, and basically undiminished, to boot. From this it should be clear that Zamas2 is just that much stronger than Vegeta.Ultimately, any differences between the two would come down to God-Blue only enhancing attack power, whereas the completed Blue would enhance everything from attack power to speed and agility. That's why Fused Zamasu effortlessly blitzed Vegeta during their initial encounter, why Vegeta didn't bother even using God-Blue in that fight, and why Goku was able to keep up after absorbing the aura.