Super retelling BOG and ROF

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by MaGyunia » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:25 pm

GT should better be seen as entirely non-canon, hence it doesn't even have - or need to have - its own canon status, just like the 13 DBZ Movies don't. They depict "what-if?" scenarios, exploring some characters with some potential to them although with obviously weak plots due to the time restraints typical of a movie.

In my view, canon is whatever doesn't contradict or generate timeline inconsistencies with the series' main, one and only timeline, and as such my list of canon events is as follows:
1 - Bardock Special
2 - DB
3 - DBZ Saiya-jin and Freeza arcs
4 - Trunks Special (future timeline)
5 - DBZ Jinzouningen and Cell arcs
6 - Movie 9
7 - DBZ Majin Buu arc
8 - DBSuper Beerus arc
9 - DBSuper Freeza arc
10 - DBSuper 6th Universe arc
11 - Last 3 episodes of DBZ

The issue over Jaco/Bardock Special has been addressed before, I'm adding it as canon because the last confrontation of Bardock against Freeza still happens. Movie 1 COULD have happened in-between the end of DB and the Saiya-jin Saga, shortly before the arrival of Raditz, but Krillin is shown not to know Goku has a son in episode 2 of DBZ, when he clearly met him in Movie 1. Movie 13 COULD take place right after the Majin Buu arc, if they hadn't used the Dragon Balls in the movie. The 2008 Tarble Special is still subject to debate, there's really nothing there that make it impossible to have happened, but I'm remaining rather cautious on that one and I deliberately refrained from including it in the post-Majin Buu timing.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by precita » Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:45 am

How do you think ROF will be changed in terms of characters?

Anyone else think we might see Android 18, Goten/Trunks, and even Yamcha join the fight during the episode adaptions? Super is already changing Battle of Gods a bit more than I thought, so I'm wondering here too.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Neon Z » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:59 pm

precita wrote:How do you think ROF will be changed in terms of characters?

Anyone else think we might see Android 18, Goten/Trunks, and even Yamcha join the fight during the episode adaptions? Super is already changing Battle of Gods a bit more than I thought, so I'm wondering here too.
The preview seemed to suggest that only the same characters who fought in BoG will fight in the next episode, so I think they might keep that for RoFs... Well, aside from Goten and Trunks. Super seems to market them way too much to sideline them for an entire arc.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by dbgtFO » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:57 pm

I for one hope, Goku does not drop out of SSG until after the fight is over.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:04 pm

dbgtFO wrote:I for one hope, Goku does not drop out of SSG until after the fight is over.
This... Needs... To... Happen...

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Ushabtis » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:16 pm

dbgtFO wrote:I for one hope, Goku does not drop out of SSG until after the fight is over.
felt like a cheap way to make him more powerful without training him...yeah they do it to gohan all the time but that isn't goku style man :|
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Doctor. » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:28 pm

Ushabtis wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:I for one hope, Goku does not drop out of SSG until after the fight is over.
felt like a cheap way to make him more powerful without training him...yeah they do it to gohan all the time but that isn't goku style man :|
What about zenkai boosts? lol. Goku is far more privileged than the humans, for instance.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by smolnamekian » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:03 am

Neon Z wrote:
precita wrote:How do you think ROF will be changed in terms of characters?

Anyone else think we might see Android 18, Goten/Trunks, and even Yamcha join the fight during the episode adaptions? Super is already changing Battle of Gods a bit more than I thought, so I'm wondering here too.
The preview seemed to suggest that only the same characters who fought in BoG will fight in the next episode, so I think they might keep that for RoFs... Well, aside from Goten and Trunks. Super seems to market them way too much to sideline them for an entire arc.
At the very least, I hope that we are given a few scenes with them during the RoF Arc. If 18, Yamcha, Goten, and Trunks sit out (again), at least expand on the reasons why they're not joining in. 18 and Krillin's reasoning was already detailed in the movie, but I wouldn't be opposed to a longer scene between them about it. As for the others, maybe Bulma is about to inform Goten and Trunks (maybe they're playing outside?) but stops herself (and tells her parents to keep hush hush too). Tien could either have Yamcha keep an eye on Chiaotsu, or maybe they get into a bit of a disagreement on why he and Chiaotsu should stay behind. I don't know; these are just a few ideas to throw out there.
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by irreality » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:04 am

I really hope they have #18 fight in the remake of RoF. That was the only scene people boo'ed at in the movie theater I was at. Plus, thy will have stock footage from her fighting from BoG. Yamcha I don't mind him sitting out -- he hasn't really fought since Cell.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:32 am

smolnamekian wrote:At the very least, I hope that we are given a few scenes with them during the RoF Arc. If 18, Yamcha, Goten, and Trunks sit out (again), at least expand on the reasons why they're not joining in. 18 and Krillin's reasoning was already detailed in the movie, but I wouldn't be opposed to a longer scene between them about it. As for the others, maybe Bulma is about to inform Goten and Trunks (maybe they're playing outside?) but stops herself (and tells her parents to keep hush hush too). Tenshinhan could either have Yamcha keep an eye on Chiaotsu, or maybe they get into a bit of a disagreement on why he and Chiaotsu should stay behind. I don't know; these are just a few ideas to throw out there.
We have explanations about why they didn't fight:

#18 - Kuririn told her that there was no need for her to come, since they had Gohan & Boo, so he asked her to stay behind and protect Maron. (From the movie)
Majin Boo - He had fallen into a long sleep, and it's impossible to wake him up when that happens. (From the script & manga)
Goten & Trunks - Bulma wanted to keep it a secret from them, because they are too reckless (from the movie), and they wanted to protect the next generation of fighters (from Toriyama).
Yamcha & Chaozu - Tenshinhan left them behind because it would have been too dangerous for them. (From the movie)
Mr. Satan - They didn't tell him because he would have been useless. (From Toriyama)
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:50 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
smolnamekian wrote:At the very least, I hope that we are given a few scenes with them during the RoF Arc. If 18, Yamcha, Goten, and Trunks sit out (again), at least expand on the reasons why they're not joining in. 18 and Krillin's reasoning was already detailed in the movie, but I wouldn't be opposed to a longer scene between them about it. As for the others, maybe Bulma is about to inform Goten and Trunks (maybe they're playing outside?) but stops herself (and tells her parents to keep hush hush too). Tenshinhan could either have Yamcha keep an eye on Chiaotsu, or maybe they get into a bit of a disagreement on why he and Chiaotsu should stay behind. I don't know; these are just a few ideas to throw out there.
We have explanations about why they didn't fight:

#18 - Kuririn told her that there was no need for her to come, since they had Gohan & Boo, so he asked her to stay behind and protect Maron. (From the movie)
Majin Boo - He had fallen into a long sleep, and it's impossible to wake him up when that happens. (From the script & manga)
Goten & Trunks - Bulma wanted to keep it a secret from them, because they are too reckless (from the movie), and they wanted to protect the next generation of fighters (from Toriyama).
Yamcha & Chaozu - Tenshinhan left them behind because it would have been too dangerous for them. (From the movie)
Mr. Satan - They didn't tell him because he would have been useless. (From Toriyama)
I can buy all of this except the Yamcha & Chiaotzu one, I can't buy them being weaker than Roshi, I just can't.
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:30 am

ekrolo2 wrote:I can buy all of this except the Yamcha & Chiaotzu one, I can't buy them being weaker than Roshi, I just can't.
They don't have to be weaker than Kame-sennin. It was Tenshinhan that decided to leave them behind, but it was Kuririn that decided to bring Kame-sennin with him. It just means that Tenshinhan was afraid of risking their lives, while Kuririn was more confident with Gohan & Boo around.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by smolnamekian » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:50 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
smolnamekian wrote:At the very least, I hope that we are given a few scenes with them during the RoF Arc. If 18, Yamcha, Goten, and Trunks sit out (again), at least expand on the reasons why they're not joining in. 18 and Krillin's reasoning was already detailed in the movie, but I wouldn't be opposed to a longer scene between them about it. As for the others, maybe Bulma is about to inform Goten and Trunks (maybe they're playing outside?) but stops herself (and tells her parents to keep hush hush too). Tenshinhan could either have Yamcha keep an eye on Chiaotsu, or maybe they get into a bit of a disagreement on why he and Chiaotsu should stay behind. I don't know; these are just a few ideas to throw out there.
We have explanations about why they didn't fight:

#18 - Kuririn told her that there was no need for her to come, since they had Gohan & Boo, so he asked her to stay behind and protect Maron. (From the movie)
Majin Boo - He had fallen into a long sleep, and it's impossible to wake him up when that happens. (From the script & manga)
Goten & Trunks - Bulma wanted to keep it a secret from them, because they are too reckless (from the movie), and they wanted to protect the next generation of fighters (from Toriyama).
Yamcha & Chaozu - Tenshinhan left them behind because it would have been too dangerous for them. (From the movie)
Mr. Satan - They didn't tell him because he would have been useless. (From Toriyama)
That's not what I meant.

It's very clear in the movie why those characters were not in the movie, but we were told that. In Super I would like to have scenes featuring these characters showing why they aren't going to be in the battle against Frieza. We already have a great example in the movie between 18 and Krillin. I would like something along those lines with the other characters as well, rather than having Character A say: "So and So can't come because...."
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Kid Trunks » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:35 pm

I was disappointed when I first heard Super would be a retelling. The slice-of-life episodes were cool. But after watching the most recent episodes it seems like it wasn't the best idea to try and drag a movie out into a series of episodes. All you can really do is add content that just feels like filler. It usually works better the other way around, like Mystical Adventure.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by precita » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:34 pm

My only complaint is Beerus feels more evil in the show, almost exactly like Frieza, whereas in Battle of Gods he seemed a lot more neutral and sympathetic.

I mean what separates Beerus from Frieza now? He pummels King Vegeta same way Frieza did, destroys planets out will, comes to Earth to beat everyone up...there's no difference.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Puto » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:51 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote: #18 - Kuririn told her that there was no need for her to come, since they had Gohan & Boo, so he asked her to stay behind and protect Maron. (From the movie)
Majin Boo - He had fallen into a long sleep, and it's impossible to wake him up when that happens. (From the script & manga)
Goten & Trunks - Bulma wanted to keep it a secret from them, because they are too reckless (from the movie), and they wanted to protect the next generation of fighters (from Toriyama).
Yamcha & Chaozu - Tenshinhan left them behind because it would have been too dangerous for them. (From the movie)
Mr. Satan - They didn't tell him because he would have been useless. (From Toriyama)
First one is a dub line. The Japanese version just says "you stay here and protect Maron". No mention of Gohan and Boo at all.
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:56 pm

Are you sure about that? While not in the exact same line, they are mentioned in Toriyama's script.
No.18: “I’ll go too. I’m a lot more powerful than you guys, after all.”
Kuririn: “I’d rather you stay here and look after Marron. Anyway, I’ve got a favor to ask you…”

No.18 shaves Kuririn’s head with an electric clipper.

No.18: “So Son Goku and Vegeta are both off at Beerus’ place?”
Kuririn: “Yeah, we’re still waiting to hear back from them. Hopefully they’ll come quick…But at least we’ve got Majin Boo and Gohan.”
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by TheGmGoken » Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:00 pm

Goten & Trunks - Bulma wanted to keep it a secret from them, because they are too reckless (from the movie), and they wanted to protect the next generation of fighters (from Toriyama).
When does he state that? Did a RoF guidebook come out or something?
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:20 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:When does he state that? Did a RoF guidebook come out or something?
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:42 pm

precita wrote:My only complaint is Beerus feels more evil in the show, almost exactly like Freeza, whereas in Battle of Gods he seemed a lot more neutral and sympathetic.

I mean what separates Beerus from Freeza now? He pummels King Vegeta same way Freeza did, destroys planets out will, comes to Earth to beat everyone up...there's no difference.
Beerus does seem a bit more sadistic in Super than he did BOG, but he does go on the record to say that he is a "very generous God" in Super, so he still has a sympathetic and neutral nature about him. And besides, when he's not destroying planets, which is his job, no matter how much joy he may take from it, he's quite friendly and outgoing.

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