Super retelling BOG and ROF

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Doctor. » Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:02 pm

I still don't understand.

Apparently M13 can't "happen" because the DBs should be stone.

But Super apparently works even though the DBs should also be stone if this is just 6 months post Boo.

What's with this mentality? Is it just because Toriyama is involved?

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:47 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:I recall that when the show was announce or during it's early promos that Super is said to start six months after the defeat of Majin Buu.
The same promotional stuff also said that Gohan & Videl were about to get married, while they had actually recently married. The actual episode says that 6 months after Boo's death, the wish to erase the memories of Majin Boo from the Earthlings was made, and that "some time" has passed since then, enough time for the Dragon Balls to be active again for Bulma's party. If Videl is pregnant like in BoG, it means that it takes place at the same time as BoG, unless we get a retcon, which I doubt.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:16 pm

Doctor. wrote:But Super apparently works even though the DBs should also be stone if this is just 6 months post Boo.
Good point, I think this another nail in the Super is 6 months after Buu coffin. It is looking increasingly likely it isn't now.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by sintzu » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:29 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Doctor. wrote:But Super apparently works even though the DBs should also be stone if this is just 6 months post Boo.
Good point, I think this another nail in the Super is 6 months after Buu coffin. It is looking increasingly likely it isn't now.
The story takes place "a little while" after Buu was wished out of people's minds which was 6 months after Buu's defeat.

If it was longer then a year then I don't think they would've said a little while.
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:48 pm

sintzu wrote:The story takes place "a little while" after Buu was wished out of people's minds which was 6 months after Buu's defeat.

If it was longer then a year then I don't think they would've said a little while.
Also the manga said the days and months pass. If that's an accurate translation, then yeah, I don't think it makes sense that it should be multiple years after Buu. Really the premise that they waited 4 years to do the stuff they do, doesn't really make a lot of sense from a realistic point of view, but until it's blatantly contradicted in the series I'm going to stick with it being 4 years after Buu like BoG.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Sun Wukong » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:00 pm

Doctor. wrote:I still don't understand.

Apparently M13 can't "happen" because the DBs should be stone.

But Super apparently works even though the DBs should also be stone if this is just 6 months post Boo.

What's with this mentality? Is it just because Toriyama is involved?
Most likely yes.
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by StrawHatPatriot » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:26 am

The discussion has kind of left this subject a little bit, but oh well.

I don't think it was a good idea simply because they're just pacing them out a lot, and I fear the animation would get a lot worse. It doesn't help that the characters have virtually no personality because of the paced scenes to pad time. It overall contributes to a very boring atmosphere that tries to emulate Dragon Ball, but doesn't do the greatest job at it. It just feels like Early Buu Saga filler.

And yeah... people already saw the movies before, and for people who didn't see them ... guess what, this isn't 1995 anymore; you can easily view the movies one way or another.

They were better off airing Dragon Ball Super later in the year, after the movies have come out in most countries, so that they can jump straight into the Universe 6 arc (with a small summary of the BOG and RF events of course in the first episode). They also could have hyped it up better that way, and give time for other countries to have their dub of Dragon Ball Super a lot more quickly.

EDIT: And like one person said, retelling BOG and RF with a lot of different alterations almost makes the movies useless as well.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Neon Z » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:55 pm

sintzu wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Doctor. wrote:But Super apparently works even though the DBs should also be stone if this is just 6 months post Boo.
Good point, I think this another nail in the Super is 6 months after Buu coffin. It is looking increasingly likely it isn't now.
The story takes place "a little while" after Buu was wished out of people's minds which was 6 months after Buu's defeat.

If it was longer then a year then I don't think they would've said a little while.
I think they just didn't want to settle a specific date to avoid running out of time for any time skips and such that they might need later. But, still, Super clearly has to take place more than one year after the Buu Saga. There isn't only the issue of the Dragonballs, but also Gohan, who clearly isn't a high school student anymore by the time Super starts.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:23 pm

I'm not sure if I will consider the BoG & FnF arcs as "canon", I think I'll keep the movies above them since Toriyama was more involved with them. Toriyama seemed to imply that his involvement in the story of Super starts with the U6 arc, and the BoG arc so far feels (to me) a lot like something Toei would write instead of Toriyama.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Envy » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:48 am

So are we ever going to see anything original, or is Super solely retelling BOG and RoF? Sorry, this has probably been discussed to death, but I haven't been around... I've just been very disappointed. It's hard to convince myself to even watch Super episodes when they're just retelling. =/

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by TripleRach » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:17 am

Envy wrote:So are we ever going to see anything original, or is Super solely retelling BOG and RoF? Sorry, this has probably been discussed to death, but I haven't been around... I've just been very disappointed. It's hard to convince myself to even watch Super episodes when they're just retelling. =/
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by sintzu » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:44 am

Envy wrote:So are we ever going to see anything original, or is Super solely retelling BOG and RoF?
We're going to get a u6 arc after these 2 but as of now it seems like the 1st 2 arcs are retelling the movies without any big changes.
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by MaGyunia » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:50 am

Envy wrote:So are we ever going to see anything original, or is Super solely retelling BOG and RoF? Sorry, this has probably been discussed to death, but I haven't been around... I've just been very disappointed. It's hard to convince myself to even watch Super episodes when they're just retelling. =/
The BoG and Fukkatsu no F movies are going to be/are being retold in the form of episodes/arcs within DBSuper, pretty much depicting the same exact events in almost the same exact circumstances, with minor changes and additions here and there. After we're done with the retelling of BoG (call it the Beerus arc, if you will), which should last about 10-12 episodes, and the retelling of Fukkatsu no F (call it the Freeza arc), which should also last no longer than 10-12 episodes, then we'll get to a new arc - the 6th Universe arc - depicting entirely new events, with the introduction of new characters and villains, the exploration of the 6th Universe and the search for something called Super Dragon Balls; we should be starting on that arc by episode 30 or something approximate to that.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Envy » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:25 am

Awesome, thanks for the information everyone. I feel much more confident about being able to enjoy the series now. =D

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by TheGmGoken » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:51 pm

My friend from a different website just ranted on how it's a bad business movie to remake RoF. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=9198479&t=8547619

Here are the key points:
episode listing at come to the conclusion that BoG saga will conclude around episode 10-13 like a seasonal finale for summer anime. This means by prediction episode 14-17 will be slice of life episodes for support cast (if they're taking the BoG remake route) and Goku-Vegeta training with Whis. Of course there will be minor differences and continuity compared to RoF but overall the first 15-30 minute of the movie will be the same. Regardless if they time skip or jump right ahead to training.
Meaning episode 18-26 might be retelling RoF. I'm doing some dates checks and let's say Frieza is brought back at episode 17. If no holidays and breaks. Then Frieza will debut in Super on October 31, 2015. Revival of F DVD-Blu Ray comes out in Japan October 7, 2015. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/06/28/re ... e-details/
Let's ignore worldwide and think only Japan. October 7...will release the RoF movie. Maybe show it on TV(Don't know how TV works in Japan). But Super is showing the exact (with probably minor differences. As Super 5 had same storyboard and dialog as BoG) story but at a slower pace, inferior animation(most likely), different music, less hype, and lack of interest from the fans due to familiar plot.
They're basically competing with themselves and just setting themselves up with less viewers OR less buy rate for the RoF DVD.
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:46 pm

Doctor. wrote:I still don't understand.

Apparently M13 can't "happen" because the DBs should be stone.

But Super apparently works even though the DBs should also be stone if this is just 6 months post Boo.
Movie 13 happens right after Buu, so it the DB's should be stone after Goku's wish. In Super, a good amount of months has past since the last wish allowing the Dragon Balls to be used again. If Movie 13 happen after Buu and Super is 6 months after Buu then it would be impossible for Hoi to make wish from the Dragon Balls in such a short period of time. I do think Super is set 6 months after Buu given that Mr. Satan won't wait 4 years to give Goku his money and the news reports are at Mr. Satan's house for letting him save the world again. Also why the promos for the show lie about the time setting? It would feel like false advertising if you ask me.
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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Araki » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:58 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:I do think Super is set 6 months after Buu
If you think that, you're going against what the freaking narrator said right at the beginning of the series...that is not very wise.
Different translations and interpretations of promo material lead up to confusion (i myself was confused, too), but the show made it clear from day one that more time passed.

Mr. Satan didn't wait to give Goku the money, but his prize was said to be "long overdue". As i pointed out in a different thread earlier today, one of the reporters at his house asked him about that, so there's that too.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Doctor. » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:06 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:I still don't understand.

Apparently M13 can't "happen" because the DBs should be stone.

But Super apparently works even though the DBs should also be stone if this is just 6 months post Boo.
Movie 13 happens right after Buu, so it the DB's should be stone after Goku's wish. In Super, a good amount of months has past since the last wish allowing the Dragon Balls to be used again. If Movie 13 happen after Buu and Super is 6 months after Buu then it would be impossible for Hoi to make wish from the Dragon Balls in such a short period of time. I do think Super is set 6 months after Buu given that Mr. Satan won't wait 4 years to give Goku his money and the news reports are at Mr. Satan's house for letting him save the world again. Also why the promos for the show lie about the time setting? It would feel like false advertising if you ask me.
They already used ALL of their wishes when they wished for everyone to forget about Boo, they'd have to wait another year. If Super is only 6 months after Boo, then if they use the DBs, a plot hole is opened up.

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by wertham » Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:57 am

I seriously think that Toriyama isn't involved in BOG and ROF retelling at all (except for maybe some designs), probably he's just working in U6 arc meanwhile TOEI broadcasts this two previous filler arcs to make time. IMO, Super chapters 3 to 6 are a much weaker version of the events depicted in BOG and didn't have any of Toriyama's charm in it.

I expected Super to be an extended version of BOG and ROF but now I see it as the "anime canon" version of this events, leaving the two movies as the "manga canon".

Sooo I made up this two canon timelines :P

ANIME CANON

DBZ Special 1
Jaco
DB anime
DBZ movie 1
DBZ saiyan & freeza arcs
DBZ movie 5
DBZ cell arc
DBZ movie 9
DBZ boo arc
DBZ movie 13
DB Super BOG arc
DB Super ROF arc
DB Super U6 arc
End of DBZ
DBGT

MANGA CANON

DB Minus
Freeza's flashback about Bardock
Jaco
DB manga 1-517
2008 Special
BOG
ROF
¿DB Super U6 arc?
DB Manga 518-519

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Re: Super retelling BOG and ROF

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:39 pm

I think GT is it's own continuity at this rate. This is how I view the Dragon Ball continuities at the moment:

Manga:

Jaco
DB-
Dragon Ball manga volumes 1-42
2008 Jump Special (maybe)
Super (Toriyama seems to be more involved with Super then he was in GT)
End of DBZ

Anime:

Bardock: Farther of Goku
DB TV series
DBZ TV series
DB Movie 9
DBZ Movie 13
2008 Jump Special

GT:

Bardock: Father of Goku
DB TV series
DBZ TV series
DBZ Movie 5
DBZ Movie 6 (Coola escape out of Hell, so it implied that this movie happen somehow in the timeline if Coola died. Just another GT plot hole)
DBZ Movie 13
GT
Hero's Legacy

DBO:

Bardock: Father of Goku
Dragon Ball manga volumes 1-42
Dragon Ball Online
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