Dragon Ball Super: TV Ratings Discussion Thread

[Lord Beerus]

I don't even own a TV, nor do I know anyone who still watches TV. Probably just old people, apparently sporting events like the Super Bowl still get huge ratings.

The only events that will score major TV ratings these days are Royal Weddings/Funerals, the Super Bowl, the Olympics and the World Cup. And two of those events happen once ever four years, and you never know when a Royal wedding or funeral will take place.

[precita]

The only thing I use my TV for is videogames. If I didn't play games, I would literally have no reason to own a TV anymore. I literally watch everything on the internet. You can even play blu-rays on your computer disc drive too on top of that.

[Pannaliciour]

People freaking out about some dips in rating. Relax you guys. There is a movie coming, no plans to cancel the show haha.

[precita]

Well technically they could make new movies without a show. That's what they had originally been doing with the Beerus movie in 2013, and Return of F in 2015, or the various specials.

[majinwarman]

People freaking out about some dips in rating. Relax you guys. There is a movie coming, no plans to cancel the show haha.

That's what I'm trying to say! But, people are saying that Super is getting cancelled. They may go into hitus but if then it's still a big question on whether it's going to happen.

[alakazam^]

That's what I'm trying to say! But, people are saying that Super is getting cancelled. They may go into hitus but if then it's still a big question on whether it's going to happen.

This arc wasn't advertised as the last one so I highly doubt that's the case.

[Chuquita]

That's what I'm trying to say! But, people are saying that Super is getting cancelled. They may go into hitus but if then it's still a big question on whether it's going to happen.

This arc wasn't advertised as the last one so I highly doubt that's the case.

I agree. I'd think if it were meant to be the last arc they'd advertise it. Whoever makes the Gintama anime advertised that it was in its final arc. I remember seeing headlines for that on Crunchyroll.

[majinwarman]

That's what I'm trying to say! But, people are saying that Super is getting cancelled. They may go into hitus but if then it's still a big question on whether it's going to happen.

This arc wasn't advertised as the last one so I highly doubt that's the case.

But people will still believe every arc is the last one!

[majinwarman]

That's what I'm trying to say! But, people are saying that Super is getting cancelled. They may go into hitus but if then it's still a big question on whether it's going to happen.

This arc wasn't advertised as the last one so I highly doubt that's the case.

I agree. I'd think if it were meant to be the last arc they'd advertise it. Whoever makes the Gintama anime advertised that it was in its final arc. I remember seeing headlines for that on Crunchyroll.

I know that but the rest of the fandom believes that every arc is the last one!

[Chuquita]

This arc wasn't advertised as the last one so I highly doubt that's the case.

I agree. I'd think if it were meant to be the last arc they'd advertise it. Whoever makes the Gintama anime advertised that it was in its final arc. I remember seeing headlines for that on Crunchyroll.

I know that but the rest of the fandom believes that every arc is the last one!

I don't think it's ending. I think they'd have advertised it if it was to maximize viewers.

[majinwarman]

I agree. I'd think if it were meant to be the last arc they'd advertise it. Whoever makes the Gintama anime advertised that it was in its final arc. I remember seeing headlines for that on Crunchyroll.

I know that but the rest of the fandom believes that every arc is the last one!

I don't think it's ending. I think they'd have advertised it if it was to maximize viewers.

Exactly!! They would want to market the show was ending so they could the most viewers they can to watch Super.

[Faisal Shourov]

It's already been brought up, but it's only natural that ratings are going down since TV is dying.

But does it have to die so fast during DBS' lifetime ? Also, we don't know how successful streaming sites are in Japan to say how TV is being replaced.

That ranking chart looks somewhat better.

TV ratings drop will only accelerate, cable tv is set to become extinct in 20 years. The younger millennials and Gen Z don't watch TV at all. I haven't watched cable TV since 2014, nor I ever plan to in future.

[majinwarman]

It's already been brought up, but it's only natural that ratings are going down since TV is dying.

But does it have to die so fast during DBS' lifetime ? Also, we don't know how successful streaming sites are in Japan to say how TV is being replaced.

That ranking chart looks somewhat better.

TV ratings drop will only accelerate, cable tv is set to become extinct in 20 years. The younger millennials and Gen Z don't watch TV at all. I haven't watched cable TV since 2014, nor I ever plan to in future.

But, I think eventually other anime shows like Dragon Ball will move towards steaming services. Plus, it allows them to move away from TV.

[Bigivel]

That's what I'm trying to say! But, people are saying that Super is getting cancelled. They may go into hitus but if then it's still a big question on whether it's going to happen.

This arc wasn't advertised as the last one so I highly doubt that's the case.

I agree. I'd think if it were meant to be the last arc they'd advertise it. Whoever makes the Gintama anime advertised that it was in its final arc. I remember seeing headlines for that on Crunchyroll.

Wrong equivalency. Gintama manga for a long time said it was in the last arc, so when the anime got into that arc it also advertised that. Dragon Ball Super is an original series, it has nothing similar.

Also why would they advertise the last arc? Do you know many series from Toei that did that? And did you know many series of other companies that did that?

Just a note that Dragon Ball Super was planned for 2 years, and is already running for 3. And Gegege no Kitaro, the series is coming back(it comes back every decade) and this is its timeslot.

Not saying that Super will end, but the excuse that is unlikely because they didn't advertised is a really bad one.
And why is people always calling the end of a series as cancellation? Is like the normal is for a series to continue to infinity, but a simple search and you would notice that never ending long running series is a rarety(not even Dragon Ball was that), as well as series with 3+. Is way more common for a long running sereis to take 1 or 2 years. Now even expecting a deriative of another series to continue ad infinitum is in my view ludicrous.

Goku was still the main character of GT. Trunks, Goten, Uub and Pan weren't the reason that show failed.

The show didn't failed!

What do you mean "The show didn't fail"? The merchandise sales for GT were low,which led to it being cancelled.Super helped Toei increase it's profilts by almost 19% this year and they expect it to increase in the next year.

If by being bigger than almost every other series at the time and even right now is failing, yep it failed. ah, of course you're comparing with mega successes. So because it was lower than the original Dragon Ball and now Dragon Ball Super than it means it failed.

This is like you being in a group of millionaires and one Billionaire. Suddenly the Billionaire turning into a millionaire means he is poor, even though he a MILLIONAIRE and RICHER than all the rest of the group.

If you're talking of failed in terms of Toei expectatives of the series. 1) you don't know what Toei animation was expecting so you really can't and should assume. 2) Normally companies, at least the ones that thrive, have conservative expectations about the returns of their products(Is always way better to be surprised about a higher than expected return than a lower). 3) A extension to a series is expected to do worse, than the 1st iteration(And nope Dragon Ball Z is not an extension of Dragon Ball, the series didn't even got a interval between airing, the only thing that changed was a letter), tell me of series in which their extensions did better.

Looks like some users here not called Bigivel can't separate fandom reception from commercial reception.

Are you saying GT was somehow a commercial success? Because I don’t see it.

My apologies if I misunderstood!

Are you saying selling more than Precure, the biggest Magical Girl franchise ever recorded(maybe Sally the Witch and Akko's Secret were more successful, but we don't have data for those), isn't a commercal success? Because Dragon Ball GT easily did that. In fact at the time it was the biggest success of Toei Animation, and Toei Animation even during that time was the biggest Japanese Animation Studio.

[Chuquita]

Well, here's the Kanzenshuu article on when Kai was revealed to be ending: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2011/03/03/dr ... firmation/

It mentions poor merchandise sales. Super doesn't have that. The announcement did however come only a few weeks before the show ended though.

[alakazam^]

Just a note that Dragon Ball Super was planned for 2 years, and is already running for 3. And Gegege no Kitaro, the series is coming back(it comes back every decade) and this is its timeslot.

Not saying that Super will end, but the excuse that is unlikely because they didn't advertised is a really bad one.

If you're talking of failed in terms of Toei expectatives of the series. 1) you don't know what Toei animation was expecting so you really can't and should assume.

Apparently you should take your own advice.

What I said wasn't an excuse and if you know that much show us proof - not opinions. If you can't, drop the attitude already.

[Bigivel]

Well, here's the Kanzenshuu article on when Kai was revealed to be ending: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2011/03/03/dr ... firmation/

It mentions poor merchandise sales. Super doesn't have that. The announcement did however come only a few weeks before the show ended though.

Oh, it mentions "poor merchandise sales" so it was a failure, Please.

And the conversation was about GT, right? The article is about Kai. Also Kai didn't has in any of its iterations poor merchandise sales.

Note languague here, is important. One thing is doing worse in some quantity with a previous/future value, another is doing "poorly". Just because something does worse than another thing doesn't mean that something is "poor". By that logic you would peak the best selling merchandise series and tell that the industry is horrible because all the other series are doing poorly. This is not how it works.

Is amazing how Toei Animation in this last 10 years, or more, was totally crushing the competition of anime studios, doing like 4-5 times more than one os its bigger competitions, and had all of its current franchises in the Character Merchandise Market Top 20, but for some reason, Dragon Ball Kai, at the time the 2nd most profitable series of the company, is doing poorly. If doing poorly is that, I believe that everybody would love to do that poorly.

[Bigivel]

Just a note that Dragon Ball Super was planned for 2 years, and is already running for 3. And Gegege no Kitaro, the series is coming back(it comes back every decade) and this is its timeslot.

Not saying that Super will end, but the excuse that is unlikely because they didn't advertised is a really bad one.

If you're talking of failed in terms of Toei expectatives of the series. 1) you don't know what Toei animation was expecting so you really can't and should assume.

Apparently you should take your own advice.

What I said wasn't an excuse and if you know that much show us proof - not opinions. If you can't, drop the attitude already.

Do you know what is an excuse? You said that because it wasn't advertised as the last arc, then it would not be the last arc. That is literally what an excuse for not being ending is.

Don't know what is their expectation is different to not knowing what the base expectation in people of business, and animation business are. Meaning, knowing that you don't expect high things from things. You can think personally and being expecting for an explosion(A fan of something would expect that), but on the project planning you will not do that. Let me give a important and concrete example, Toei Animation following Year expectations. Every company does that, and being a public company, theirs is popular. For the last 10 years all of their preliminary expectations have failed and it was always above the expected. And if you see how they estimate, they explain the numbers is not a random thing. You see that they think always conservative and below what will possibly occur.

Now we don't know what they expected of GT, but certainly they didn't thought it to be a massive success like the main series. Why? Because it wasn't the main series, because almost all sequels do worse(even in Hollywood and others industries) specially when the main author gets out.

If we don't take what Toei Animation expectations were and just look at the data and compare with the competition. GT was for its entire run in the Top 10 around 5th and 7th position in the TV rating(you can go check it out) and its Disk Sales are the most sold of the entire part of the franchise in Japan. And Dragon Ball at that time was high in the Charabiz ranking(Top 100 Character Merchandise ranking).

This is like if One Piece after ending gets a sequel and it sells only one third of the original, and so that would mean it failed. Given that each volume of the original sells around 2.8 Million in one year, that woul mean selling 933 Thousand copies. That is practically more than any other series currently except Attack on Titan.


About being the biggest Toei Animation franchise of the moment. This were the series that Toei aired at that time:

- Dragon Ball GT
- Sailor Moon Stars
- Gegege no Kitaro(4th iteration)
- Hell Teacher Nūbē
- Boys over Flowers
- Neighborhood Story
- Cutie Honey Flash

[Chuquita]

Well, here's the Kanzenshuu article on when Kai was revealed to be ending: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2011/03/03/dr ... firmation/

It mentions poor merchandise sales. Super doesn't have that. The announcement did however come only a few weeks before the show ended though.

Oh, it mentions "poor merchandise sales" so it was a failure, Please.

And the conversation was about GT, right? The article is about Kai. Also Kai didn't has in any of its iterations poor merchandise sales.

Note languague here, is important. One thing is doing worse in some quantity with a previous/future value, another is doing "poorly". Just because something does worse than another thing doesn't mean that something is "poor". By that logic you would peak the best selling merchandise series and tell that the industry is horrible because all the other series are doing poorly. This is not how it works.

Is amazing how Toei Animation in this last 10 years, or more, was totally crushing the competition of anime studios, doing like 4-5 times more than one os its bigger competitions, and had all of its current franchises in the Character Merchandise Market Top 20, but for some reason, Dragon Ball Kai, at the time the 2nd most profitable series of the company, is doing poorly. If doing poorly is that, I believe that everybody would love to do that poorly.

GT? Wasn't me taking about it. That's somebody else.

If I have to nitpick my own post, I guess instead of using my own interpretation I should've just quoted the article.

What said article says is actually:

exponential drop in sales figures

in regards to Kai.

[Bigivel]

Well, here's the Kanzenshuu article on when Kai was revealed to be ending: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2011/03/03/dr ... firmation/

It mentions poor merchandise sales. Super doesn't have that. The announcement did however come only a few weeks before the show ended though.

Oh, it mentions "poor merchandise sales" so it was a failure, Please.

And the conversation was about GT, right? The article is about Kai. Also Kai didn't has in any of its iterations poor merchandise sales.

Note languague here, is important. One thing is doing worse in some quantity with a previous/future value, another is doing "poorly". Just because something does worse than another thing doesn't mean that something is "poor". By that logic you would peak the best selling merchandise series and tell that the industry is horrible because all the other series are doing poorly. This is not how it works.

Is amazing how Toei Animation in this last 10 years, or more, was totally crushing the competition of anime studios, doing like 4-5 times more than one os its bigger competitions, and had all of its current franchises in the Character Merchandise Market Top 20, but for some reason, Dragon Ball Kai, at the time the 2nd most profitable series of the company, is doing poorly. If doing poorly is that, I believe that everybody would love to do that poorly.

GT? Wasn't me taking about it. That's somebody else.

If I have to nitpick my own post, I guess instead of using my own interpretation I should've just quoted the article.

What said article says is actually:

exponential drop in sales figures

in regards to Kai.

The "exponential drop in sales figures" is basically a similar phenomenon that happened with One Piece Marineford arc. High hype that brought new fans and brough a huge inflation of sales(because people is buying everything of the franchise in a short period of time) and then soon or later that enthusiasm just faded, like normal. Abnormal would be if the enthusiams kept and or the same amount of new people kept entiring the series or the current ones kept buying the same amount of things from the franchise. It would be different if the franchise was introducing new stuff, but it wasn't. It was all reairings and only much later just a remaking.

In the case of Dragon Ball Franchise, it got a Revival in 2003, got its peak in 2007, and got an Reenlargement in 2009 with Kai(2 years after the peak).
So yep, when Kai came and in its entire first part, it was getting decrease in sales. Still, not only was getting amazing sales for a remake series, but for a series in general. The problem seems to be 2 to comprehend this:

1. The sales were in decline.

2. Compared with the peak of the series(and is competitor One Piece), that was doing numbers incredible high for any other series, it was doing way less.


Here you have the image of the sales for the franchise a little before and during Kai:


At its lowest, 2011, it was doing 343 Million yen(around 3.43 Million dollars), compared with the 1228 Million yen(around 12.28 Million dollars) of 2007 it seems nothing. But note that One Piece was one of the biggest franchise of Toei, the biggest anime company, with 85 Million yen(800 thousand dollars) in 2006. and around that period, in half a decade(2005-2009), did an average of 196 Million yen, and was still big.

Note: is said that in average companies spend 150,000 dollars in one episode of a series. Toei is said to be 100,000 dollars. With 50 episodes per year, a average series spends 750 Thousand dollars per year. So this means that in 2011, with Dragon Ball Kai(that is a remake so even cheaper), just with Domestic Licensing, did a profit of around 2.68 Million dollars.


A series doing Monstrously, like the Super right now 3500 Million yen sales(that is bigger than Top 10, maybe even some Top 5, Anime Studios entire sales) doesn't make 340 Million yen sales less good/big. In fact by that logic we could say that the 2007 Dragon Ball Peak was a huge failure, because it practically did 3 times less than Super last year(And One Piece 85/190 Million is basically embarrasing(19 times less) compared with last year 3700 Million yen sales).

Do you see, is easy to say Failed, Flop, Poor, exponential drop in sales when you just see the "difference" and not look at the actual numbers and what they mean).