Do you think the end of Z will be re-written/retconned?

[sintzu]

Does anybody even really like the ending to DBZ ?

I don't like it as an ending but if it's part of an arc that's followed by one or 2 more with a different ending then I'll be more opened to it staying in the story but I would rather them get rid of Uub cause chances are they won't use him that much so he'll just be another sideline character.

[dbzfan7]

Eh probably. They were quick to alter Battle of Gods and Fukkatsu no F, so I don't see the end of Z being sacred material. It'll probably be altered. Wouldn't be surprised if Oob is tossed out the window and treated as something that never happened either.

They haven't done so with Pan, so I doubt they're gonna do the same with Oob.

If the series retcons the epilogue and goes further ahead like GT, I can see Oob hanging in the sidelines though.

Oob is someone who could get into the Goku picture, and I ain't so sure they want that happening. Maybe he'll pop up, but definitely not as a successor. I could see his entire role changing, and maybe disappearing after a modified 28th Tenkaichi Budokai arc, as just a possible strong guy, and nothing else.

[FoolsGil]

In a matter of speaking. For all we know, the last chapter of Z could be in one of those other 12 universes. We'll find out soon enough.

[Basaku]

She was underutilized in GT

GT writers latched on too much to tiny details and vague portrayals from EOZ. Bra wears a skirt and doesn't fight in the tournament? Let's make her a girly fashionista who doesn't do anything few years later! Goten mentions a date in 1 panel? He's gonna be a womanizer! Pan likes to fight? Tomboy in GT! Uub is a reincarnation of Buu? Well duh, the only relevant he will do will have to involve Buu! etc etc

It's always been one of my main problems with GT, uninspired & safe character portrayal with zero developement.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Personalities are somewhat debatable, but Toiyama himself is responsible for the designs of the main cast of GT and probably influenced Toei's decisions on things like "tomboy" Pan and "fashionista" Bra.

[Basaku]

Personalities are somewhat debatable, but Toiyama himself is responsible for the designs of the main cast of GT and probably influenced Toei's decisions on things like "tomboy" Pan and "fashionista" Bra.

Yep, both the writing and Toriyama's designs sucked for GT so unfortunately a bad effort on all parties involved

[Chuquita]

Personalities are somewhat debatable, but Toiyama himself is responsible for the designs of the main cast of GT and probably influenced Toei's decisions on things like "tomboy" Pan and "fashionista" Bra.

So many of those fashions scream "1996/1997" at the top of their lungs. Bra and Pan look almost excessively mid-90's. (Somehow I think the late 80's early 90's fashions of Z held up better for the most part).

The only one I really like (and weirdly I didn't care for it back when I first saw GT) is Videl with her braid and semi-knock-off-of-18's-clothing-style-outfit. That GT outfit looks more like Videl than her Super outfits have to me.

[DoomieDoomie911]

Does anybody even really like the ending to DBZ? Most of time all I see is people whining about it, be it the character designs, the torch being passed then being passed back in GT, the focus on Uub despite a large cast you could already use, etc. Doesn't seem well-liked to me.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I absolutely love it. I love how open-ended it is; it really gives off an adventurous feel. I think the entirety of GT should have showcased Goku's adventures and training with Oob. It amazes me that we haven't had anything official set during that time. There's so much potential there.

[Chuquita]

It's that one-two hit combo of "Toriyama thinks everyone's too old by EoZ" and "Shueisha probably doesn't think Uub, Pan, and Bra are as marketable as Goten and Trunks are as kids".

I also think you'd need a really strong story for Uub to set him apart from Gohan in terms of "child prodigy with gobs of hidden power". Involve his big family, and the village, and do some big reveal with the fact that he used to Majin Buu, and maybe do an inner struggle against that former nature he had as Buu. All of which I can't see current-day Toriyama doing because he doesn't seem to want to do anything serious like that atm.

[soulnova]

It's that one-two hit combo of "Toriyama thinks everyone's too old by EoZ" and "Shueisha probably doesn't think Uub, Pan, and Bra are as marketable as Goten and Trunks are as kids".

I also think you'd need a really strong story for Uub to set him apart from Gohan in terms of "child prodigy with gobs of hidden power". Involve his big family, and the village, and do some big reveal with the fact that he used to Majin Buu, and maybe do an inner struggle against that former nature he had as Buu. All of which I can't see current-day Toriyama doing because he doesn't seem to want to do anything serious like that atm.

Yeah. In any case we are arguably still years away from EoZ in Super but if Toriyama is just giving the general outline there might be hope later for him to make the main draft of the story and leave the details about Uub to Toei: "Make this scene dramatic, thank you". xD

[MaGyunia]

Uub was introduced weeks after they showed Kid Buu's defeat. The whole Majin Buu arc was too much present in everyone's minds, hence the concept of a reincarnated Kid Buu. That's not the case anymore. That was back in 1996, it's been 19 years. We've been over-debating the potential retconning of the last 3 episodes of DBZ (last Tenkaichi Budokai and introduction of Uub), and, unlike BoG and Fukkastu no F, and more like the rest of the arcs throughout the entirety of DBZ, I doubt they'll touch it. The mistake was made at that moment and it can't be undone now.

I personally have always failed to create any empathy towards Uub, and - I've stated this numerous times already - I never liked the way they chose to end DBZ, especially taking into account we get a 10 year time-skip between episodes 288 and 289; on one hand, it gives us ten years to explore, but, unless they retcon those last 3 episodes of DBZ, whatever happens in DBSuper will eventually and inevitably lead to that, and for some reason it doesn't really seem or "feel" like at the time everyone meets again and Goku fights Uub they went through the whole Beerus, Super Saiya-jin God, Golden Freeza, Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin, 6th Universe arc events.

I honestly think Toriyama wanted to put an end to DBZ as soon as possible after the titanic battle against Majin/Kid Buu, after over a decade of an incessant process of creativity regarding new characters, stages, events for DBZ. In 1996 he was (understandably) tired and consumed by the pressure of having to come up with new stories worthy of the fantastic history of DB's later and all of DBZ's arcs, which is one of the main reasons for his lack of involvement in GT right after that. They went for GT right away purely for commercial reasons, which is never the right thing to do and why, for a number of over-debated reasons and factors, GT was little more than a disaster in terms of character background, fighting, character development and interactions, storyline, etc. In fact, we can already see in the Majin Buu arc a few signs or hints that he was pretty much just running out of ideas, which is why (at least in my personal opinion) the Majin Buu arc is the least fantastic of DBZ. In fact, apart from the concept of Ultimate Gohan, Vegitto, Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku and some of the fights against the various forms of Super Buu and Kid Buu, the best/most dramatic/serious parts of the entire arc appear in the early stages of the saga, with Dabura, Vegeta being possessed by Babidi and the (fantastic) showdown between Super Saiya-jin 2 Majin Vegeta and Super Saiya-jin 2 Goku. Fat Majin Buu is just too likeable a character to be considered a major villain and to be taken seriously (which is why, in fact, they recognized this in time and changed the entire concept by expanding upon his history and background, going back to a physically menacing-seeming villain like Super Buu/Kid Buu, providing acceptable explanations for why he ended up in his fat form like he did).

However, I'm deviating from the original conversation at hand somewhat. Just wanted to share my thoughts on the many ramifications of the Majin Buu arc, leading up to its conclusion with the last Tenkaichi Budokai and the introduction of Uub. In no way does it compare or come close to all the previous arcs (Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo Jr., Saiya-jin, Freeza, Jinzouningen, Cell) in terms of seriousness/hopelessness/drama, but that's just my personal opinion. The Majin Buu arc had its fantastic moments as well, and I've described them, but it also has shortcomings, which are totally lacking in all the other arcs I've listed.

[Galan007]

You can look at it a few different ways...

a.) EoZ will be retconned and/or ignored. Boo-level power has become almost entirely irrelevant at this point. Goku can stomp any version of Boo in his base level now--and with sparring partners like Beerus/Whis/Vegeta(and whoever else he encounters throughout his adventures to alternate universes), there's no reason at all for Goku to get uber-excited at the thought of fighting a Boo-level foe again.

b.) They can go the Freeza route with Oob. What I mean is: Freeza had never trained a day in his life, yet was still one of the top powers in the DBU. So when he actually did train(for the first time ever), Freeza was able to achieve inconceivable gains in a matter of a few months. Maybe Oob might be capable of a similar power-to-training ratio..? After all, the kid had never received any training whatsoever, yet managed to contend decently against base Goku when he got pissed--which means his power is ridiculously massive(especially when we consider that he was *technically* fighting post-BoG/RoF Goku there.) That said, perhaps if he received formal training from Goku, we'd see the same sort of exponential power-increases we saw with Freeza... Which, in hindsight, probably would make Goku all giddy..?

It's a long shot, I know, but I'm still holding onto a shred of hope that Oob will stay relevant.

[MaGyunia]

This is just a matter of personal opinion and taste, which is not supposed to be subject to criticism, but personally Uub has never, ever appealed to me. I welcomed Beerus and Whis with open arms not because they're new and "we need something or someone fresh to join the gang", but because of their awesome character(s) in a variety of ways.

As far as heroes go, I'd rather stick with the known ones (Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan, Tenshinhan), not to play it safe, but because of the fantastic background and the wonderful history of fighting and dramatic events they went through for over a decade, which is a gradual process of granting them a place in your heart. Uub is an Earthling who, despite having an enormous potential, reminds me a lot of Nam for a variety of reasons, has never fought anybody and appears in three episodes; he missed more than 99% of DB and DBZ's fantastic arcs. For no reason has he earned a place in my heart when it comes to Dragonball. Sorry to put it so bluntly and coldly for you Uub fans/admirers/supporters, but that's just my personal position, and you're entitled to yours.

Your reasoning makes total sense, though, but I can't lie to you and tell you that I want your small glimpse of hope turns out to become a reality. I do hope - and I've already stated that I DON'T think it'll happen - that the last 3 episodes of DBZ get retconned, and consequently that that last Tenkaichi Budokai and Uub become non-canon and are "erased" from the series timeline's history. And I bet, for the reasons I specified in my previous post, that if Toriyama could go back in time he would never go for that 10 year-time-skip, that Tenkaichi Budokai and the introduction of Uub.

Speaking of favorite characters, some of you might already reasoned that Vegeta and Piccolo are among them, but, even though I refuse to generate an all-time personal ranking, my all-time favorite characters from the entirety of Dragonball are Vegeta, Piccolo, Tenshinhan (these three for their charisma, pride and especially their stoic, serious, and previously-evil background), Cell (in his perfect form), Dabura (I have a fascination for the concept of "the devil", and Dabla's appearance is pretty much the incarnation of it), Piccolo Daimao (my avatar says it all, I think) and, for other reasons and only for certain, very specific and particular periods of time, Goku (when he fights Nappa and Vegeta, when he displays his unbelievable power to Ginyu, and finally when he loses it and turns Super Saiya-jin and avenges his race) and Gohan (when he loses it and thrashes the Cell Juniors and Cell as a Super Saiya-jin 2, and in the brief episodes in which he dominates Super Buu as an adult, and only in these two circumstances, and in no others). Not a big fan of Gohan overall, of Krillin, or of Yamcha, for example.

Not including non-canon, movie characters or villains here, otherwise there would be more in the list.

[Ushabtis]

never liked uub...He didn't win me over in GT either. Found him kinda boring. I'd rather Toriyama not even think about the EOZ and have Super go anywhere it wants without worries of stepping on the toes of previous canons (eoz, gt, etc)

[MaGyunia]

never liked uub...He didn't win me over in GT either. Found him kinda boring. I'd rather Toriyama not even think about the EOZ and have Super go anywhere it wants without worries of stepping on the toes of previous canons (eoz, gt, etc)

You can pretty much cease even caring about GT, it's officially non-canon, but as far as the last 3 episodes of DBZ go, you basically share my thoughts that it would be good if that last Tenkaichi Budokai and Uub were just basically "erased" from history, correcting an error made 19 years ago for the reasons I've explained, one which Toriyama probably wishes he would have never have made in the first place. The hastily invented background for Uub was a direct result of Toriyama's tiredness after over a decade of a constant process of fantastic creativity, which by the time of Majin Buu, and especially its end, he just couldn't stand anymore, when it comes to pressure. He wanted to put an end to DBZ as soon as possible after Kid Buu's defeat and threw whatever little sliver of creativity he had left at that point and out came Uub as a reincarnation of a character who had been killed just 3 episodes before, who leaves off in Goku's back. I don't know, but for more than one reason this just doesn't seem a worthy ending for a series that gave us the Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo Jr., Saiya-jin, Freeza, Jinzouningen, Cell and, to some degree, Majin Buu sagas.

[Chuquita]

I'd be ok with them ditching Uub and EoZ for reasons stated by others in the posts above. He's just not interesting to me. Even the story I thought up for him several posts back isn't that interesting to me because his personality has nothing in it that I saw in EoZ that I'd care about. He's too "let's do Gohan again, but with a Piccolo-esque backstory".
Pan I do like, and she's pretty much got a lock on existing (she's in BOG and F). I really wanna keep Bra; even though we barely know anything about her, the idea of Bulma and Vegeta having another kid at this point in the story just grabs my attention the way the 2nd episode of Super did.

[Ushabtis]

You can pretty much cease even caring about GT, it's officially non-canon

I will always like GT regardless of its Canon status.

[funrush]

Does anybody even really like the ending to DBZ?

I like that it passed the torch down to a younger character (Uub) before Toriyama had the time to go back on it (like with Gohan). My biggest complaint about GT is that it was still mainly Goku-focused, when the last chapter of the manga seemed to be setting up at least something for Uub other than getting curb stomped every arc.

Also while we're on (or just passing?) character design, I hope Super changes them up a bit more later. I hope when it gets to Universe 6 it won't still feel like I'm watching the Jump special.

[Chuquita]

I want them to keep it up with the new casual outfits. Vegeta and Trunks' outfits are a good start, and even though I'm not a fan of the matching outfits thing they did with Gohan and Videl, at least they're new clothes. Expecting reF arc to re-use those oufits, but hoping Uni 6 arc goes full on fresh, both outfits and, for the characters that typically get them (Bulma, Gohan, Yamcha, Videl) new haircuts.

[MaGyunia]

You can pretty much cease even caring about GT, it's officially non-canon

I will always like GT regardless of its Canon status.

I don't, and it doesn't have anything to do with whether it's canon or not (I love some of the 13 Movies from DBZ and they're utterly non-canon). I've been over-repeating myself on a number of positions, you need only read my thoughts on GT which I previously posted.