Do you think the end of Z will be re-written/retconned?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

This debate over EoZ being re-written/retconned is only because of conflicting fandom headcannon powerlevel.

As of now, the original ending is still viable, like our mod @VegettoEX said why wouldn´t Goku be excited about a human whose powerlevel is identical to Majin Bu,(even if beyond of BoG&RoF arc Goku is already way stronger than said Majin) a powerlevel that took Goku over 30 years of training to archive, THAT´S A HELL LOT OF POTENTIAL!! another thing to add, if Freeza (with a weaker power than he had at the beginning of Android & Cell arc) with 4 months of training could catch up SSGSS Goku, then Ubb who has the powerlevel of Kid Bu would be hella stronger if the proper training is provided, Goku would be absolutely excited about Ubb (even more after seeing what Freeza archived and will archive in this new retelling)

The ending would not be possible if something astronomically radical happened, like a character that was supposed to be present in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai is kill of (and remains dead) by that time, the Earth is half destroyed and remains as such, Goku has grown a tail or anything like; until then i see no point in changing the manga ending.

[Ushabtis]

Also while we're on (or just passing?) character design, I hope Super changes them up a bit more later. I hope when it gets to Universe 6 it won't still feel like I'm watching the Jump special.

agreed. something new would be cool. dispite Goku/Vegeta getting new outfits in ROF, I'd like to see something new.

I want them to keep it up with the new casual outfits.

I'd like to see that too, but It'd be weird for Goku/Vegeta to go to Universe 6 and not bring their battle outfits.

This debate over EoZ being re-written/retconned is only because of conflicting fandom headcannon powerlevel....

well that's a given, EOZ is pretty much set in stone and isn't going to change, only thing that as a chance of being re-written/retconned is GT by this point.

The ending would not be possible if something astronomically radical happened, like a character that was supposed to be present in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai is kill of (and remains dead) by that time, the Earth is half destroyed and remains as such, Goku has grown a tail or anything like; until then i see no point in changing the manga ending.

yeah all these are possibilities but I doubt any would happen.

[Chuquita]

I want them to keep it up with the new casual outfits.

I'd like to see that too, but It'd be weird for Goku/Vegeta to go to Universe 6 and not bring their battle outfits.

I'm hoping they'll have their outfits from F during the Uni 6 arc (OR have new battle outfits altogether). The opening to Super shows them in their their BOG outfits on their way to (presumably) Uni 6, but that could mean nothing for all I know.

[Galan007]

This is just a matter of personal opinion and taste, which is not supposed to be subject to criticism, but personally Uub has never, ever appealed to me.

The idea of Oob is more appealing to me than Oob himself was actually portrayed, if that makes sense.

[MaGyunia]

This is just a matter of personal opinion and taste, which is not supposed to be subject to criticism, but personally Uub has never, ever appealed to me.

The idea of Oob is more appealing to me than Oob himself was actually portrayed, if that makes sense.

It does, I get what you mean. But for the reasons I've stated before, the entire concept didn't produce a satisfactory result (at least for me), especially due to how quickly Toriyama wanted to just put an end to DBZ. The CONCEPT of an entirely new fighter with the potential to get Goku (and the others) excited, though, could be something worth exploring, regardless of whether he's a good guy, a mere rival/antagonist or a full-fledged villain. However, even though it took 17 years for Toriyama to get it done, we got that potential entirely fulfilled with the introduction of Beerus, for example.

[Hellspawn28]

It won't surprise me if Toriyama does rewrite the end of DBZ in some way, but I still think the ending still fits with the series so far. Goku has already absorbed God’s power and made it his own which explains why Goku does not need to use SSj anymore. It can also explain why Goku didn't go SSj when he fought Uub when he pissed him off. Uub after being angry show off on how strong he can be and Goku knew that he can train him into something even stronger.

[MaGyunia]

It won't surprise me if Toriyama does rewrite the end of DBZ in some way, but I still think the ending still fits with the series so far. Goku has already absorbed God’s power and made it his own which explains why Goku does not need to use SSj anymore. It can also explain why Goku didn't go SSj when he fought Uub when he pissed him off. Uub after being angry show off on how strong he can be and Goku knew that he can train him into something even stronger.

Yeah, Goku could very well be using his base form after having absorbed the abilities and powers of the Super Saiya-jin God stage (like he did while fighting Beerus in BoG and while trying to land a punch on Whis in Fukkatsu no F), there's definitely room to fit that in so it makes sense. I didn't say the introduction of Uub didn't make sense at all, I just said I didn't like it for the reasons I listed and detailed.

[Hellspawn28]

I know someone will say "Goku didn't go SSj against Uub because he didn't want to go SSj in public". I feel like Super saiyans, aliens and superhumans are common knowledge by people on Earth in the DB universe. I don't think Goku would care if he went SSj in public against Uub. People 10 years earlier even saw Gohan go SSj in public against Kibto and even saw Super Saiyans on TV against Cell.

[MaGyunia]

Well, that's the least likely of a reason why he wouldn't go SSJ against Uub at the Tenkaichi Budokai. So unlikely a reason that it never even crossed my mind, in fact. Goku doesn't give a flying f*** about what people think about him or his fighting abilities, unlike Gohan (or Bulma), or to some degree thought it would be a problem in terms of publicity and harassment if the public in general knew about their superhuman powers.

[Galan007]

It does, I get what you mean. But for the reasons I've stated before, the entire concept didn't produce a satisfactory result (at least for me), especially due to how quickly Toriyama wanted to just put an end to DBZ. The CONCEPT of an entirely new fighter with the potential to get Goku (and the others) excited, though, could be something worth exploring, regardless of whether he's a good guy, a mere rival/antagonist or a full-fledged villain. However, even though it took 17 years for Toriyama to get it done, we got that potential entirely fulfilled with the introduction of Beerus, for example.

Yes.

Beerus as a character is excellent. He's a very fresh concept that works extremely well, imo.

[Muffin Man]

I'll be extremely baffled if they ignore the ending of Z with Super, simply because of the fact that they DIDN'T ignore EoZ just this year when they were finishing up DB Kai. Why would they include those last two episodes in Kai only to pretend they don't exist in the follow-up series that they were planning to air immediately after? It would make no sense.


It's one thing to ignore movies, since those are presented separately and it's probably more common than not for anime tie-in movies to be non-canon. But it's different with episodes in a TV series. People expect internal consistency when they're watching one episode to the next (unless the show has no continuity at all, of course). Meaning that if they want to rewrite the ending of the DB saga then they'd better release a new edition of DBZ that actually has the ending rewritten (which they had the perfect opportunity to do with Kai, yet didn't).

[sintzu]

I'll be extremely baffled if they ignore the ending of Z with Super, simply because of the fact that they DIDN'T ignore EoZ just this year when they were finishing up DB Kai. Why would they include those last two episodes in Kai only to pretend they don't exist in the follow-up series that they were planning to air immediately after? It would make no sense.

Kai was produced way before they thought of doing super which was in late 2012/early 2013.

[ShaneisMC]

I dont even see how one can automatically assume he would be the same level of strength. Hes a reincarnation. Theres nothing prohibiting him from being far more powerful and just not understanding how to tap into it like Gohan used to be like.

[Chuquita]

I'll be extremely baffled if they ignore the ending of Z with Super, simply because of the fact that they DIDN'T ignore EoZ just this year when they were finishing up DB Kai. Why would they include those last two episodes in Kai only to pretend they don't exist in the follow-up series that they were planning to air immediately after? It would make no sense.

Kai was produced way before they thought of doing super which was in late 2012/early 2013.

This is also why I think it's plausible that they could ignore EoZ. There's no rule saying they have to tie Super to Kai, especially now that Kai's pretty much retired and was conceived ahead of all of the recent plot developments from BOG and F.

[MaGyunia]

I'll be extremely baffled if they ignore the ending of Z with Super, simply because of the fact that they DIDN'T ignore EoZ just this year when they were finishing up DB Kai. Why would they include those last two episodes in Kai only to pretend they don't exist in the follow-up series that they were planning to air immediately after? It would make no sense.

Kai was produced way before they thought of doing super which was in late 2012/early 2013.

This is also why I think it's plausible that they could ignore EoZ. There's no rule saying they have to tie Super to Kai, especially now that Kai's pretty much retired and was conceived ahead of all of the recent plot developments from BOG and F.

Kai having shown the introduction of Uub at its very end should bear no relevance to whether the last 3 episodes of DBZ will be changed/made "non-canon" or not, even if the event was shown just a few months ago. If they do retcon that last Tenkaichi Budokai and the introduction of Uub it will be for entirely different reasons, it's got nothing to do with Kai. Kai was a nice concept of presenting DBZ in its entirety without all the filler material it's... filled with, in a period of years (2009 to 2011 and then 2014 to 2015) when we/they were in a pretty strong process of revitalization of Dragonball, beginning in 2008 with Tarble's special (and then Episode of Bardock, BoG and Fukkatsu no F), which all eventually led to a full-fledged series (regardless of the events it depicts in its first arcs), the first one we got in 18 years.

Personally, I'd like them to "erase" Uub from "canonness" as far as the series' timeline goes, and I bet that if Toriyama could go back in time, and if he had the strength to put forth his visions back in 1996 like he does now (he was at that time pretty tired and consumed after so many years of creative process of coming up with ideas for characters, events, etc., for DB and DBZ, and wanted to put an end to DBZ as soon as possible, in whatever way he thought first, after the titanic battle(s) in the Majin Buu arc and the final defeat of Kid Buu just 3 episodes before that), he would most definitely have chosen another road. Like I always say, whatever happens during the Beerus and Freeza arcs within DBSuper will eventually and inevitably lead to that, 10 years later, if they don't touch it, and since they've made BoG and Fukkatsu no F basically "non-canon" only 2 years and a few months after they came out, respectively, I don't see a problem in touching and changing the last 3 episodes of DBZ, regardless of how long ago they was made. Not all of DBZ is "untouchable". Uub has never appealed to me and I regard that ending as a hastily-made way to end the series in a hopeful/cheerful light as soon as possible, and I even grant the concept, in its roots, some potential, but it failed to deliver in those episodes (let alone in GT, whose quality is laughable for a variety of reasons).

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Ignoring the 28th TB for Super would be like ignoring Darth Vader's death for Episode VII... it's not gonna happen.

[MaGyunia]

I honestly think that the most likely scenario is that DBSuper and all of its arcs (Beerus, Freeza, 6th Universe) and the events depicted in all of them will be placed within the 10 year gap between the defeat of Kid Buu and the last 3 episodes of DBZ. It's not about what I'd like to happen, it's about what's most likely to occur given the circumstances. As a result of that, the last Tenkaichi Budokai of DBZ and Uub's introduction will remain unchanged and canon. The original "mistake" (that's my personal opinion, I know it's not shared by many DBZ fans) was made back in 1996, not now.

However, if we do get another series and/or canon movies after DBSuper, they'll eventually choose to pick up on the timing AFTER that Tenkaichi Budokai and Goku's leaving off with Uub to train him, and they'll basically partially or totally try to "redo" GT.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I pretty much agree. I don't think we'll leave this 10 year gap, but even if we do and they decide that the original depiction of Uub's chapters no longer fit the direction they are taking, I don't see the content being discarded. Events may be changed in the same vein of what we're seeing now with Super's adaptation of BOG (and eventually "F") to fit whatever new material they've covered, but I don't see the overall plot point of Uub's existence being changed.

[MaGyunia]

I'd be extremely disappointed if at some point in the future, a few years from now, they did a series even partially focusing on Goku's training of Uub, or revolving around Uub at all. And I think that Uub, although remaining canon, will never be a major character, I bet Toriyama almost forgot he invented him.

We need to understand that the concept of Uub was introduced weeks after the defeat of Kid Buu. He's intrinsically linked to Kid Buu, and the entire titanic Majin Buu arc was far too much present in everyone's minds at the moment of Uub's introduction and the last 3 episodes of DBZ. That's not the case anymore, that was 19 years ago. The events of the Majin Buu saga, although the last ones in DBZ, are just as "ancient" as all others depicted in the original series in the 80's and 90's.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'd be extremely disappointed if at some point in the future, a few years from now, they did a series even partially focusing on Goku's training of Uub, or revolving around Uub at all. And I think that Uub, although remaining canon, will never be a major character, I bet Toriyama almost forgot he invented him.

Toriyama definitely remembers Oob. He added a few extra pages with Oob to the final chapter in the Kanzenban, he had the final Neko Majin chapter take place after the end of the manga, and Oob appeared, and he said in an interview that he imagines Goku & Oob still training today (or rather, a decade ago, the interview is a little old), plus, he read the manga again in preperation for BoG.