If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by Mystic Tien » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:55 pm

Cipher wrote:I actually like most of the concepts and characters in GT. But they're so specific to it I think it might feel jarring to see them lifted wholesale.

I want to throw in my support for the mischief-causing "good-guy" Cell mentioned above though. That's one I've considered a few times. Like Vegeta, his only real goal is to prove he's the best. Unlike the main cast, he's completely amoral/evil. But if he were kept in-check power-wise, that'd actually be a hilarious dynamic.
Yeah, I kind of think just like you. GT characters should stay in GT, not being tossed randomly in the other series.

Good guy Cell is fine, though. But he isn't exactly from GT.
Marco Polo wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Cool to see Gohan have a kill for once. He hasn't killed someone since Cell (or Broli if you want to count in General).
He almost got Videl killed in Battle of Gods tho.

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by MaGyunia » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:38 pm

Sayo-chan wrote:
iop890 wrote: Also this. Cell was a great character, and he is the only major villain that was just ignored after his death.
Vegeta's a Z-fighter now and consistently made the second strongest character.
Freeza was resurrected and is getting an entire new arc in Super in addition to his movie.
Buu not only split into a good form, but his evil part was reincarnated, and EoZ showed Goku passing the torch to him(we'll see how that ends in Super, that damn torch never stays passed).

Cell needs some love. Hell, I'd even take the current time-line's Cell that was allegedly destroyed in Gero's lab. Imagine if the supercomputer continued gathering DNA throughout the rest of the series and part of Super.
Cell with the cells of Boo, Beerus and Whis and maybe even Dabra? What a fucking monster he'd be. This needs to happen.
Speaking of villains and Cell: In terms of likeability, and setting the villains from the 13 DBZ Movies aside, as they're non-canon, Cell has always had a particular appeal to me, especially in Perfect form. From the 3 major villains presented in the 3 main arcs throughout DBZ (if we included the real evil, maniacal, genocidal, psychotic villains from DB, we'd have only Piccolo Daimao and Piccolo himself), Cell is indeed the only one who hasn't been given any time after he was killed. We can understand the reason to bring Freeza back, he's so charismatic a villain that he's constantly referenced throughout the later arcs in DBZ and had a large number of cameos in Movies and even the Majin Buu arc in DBZ, along with an entire movie entirely dedicated to his revival (Fukkatsu no F), and as for Majin Buu, we have his fat version among the team AFTER Kid Buu was killed off, so he's still there. Cell, who works as the link between Freeza and Majin Buu at all levels, is really the only one who had his full time during the Cell arc and was subsequently "forgotten".

As far as the MAJOR villains go, my LEAST favorite one is Majin Buu, especially in his fat form. He's just too likeable a character to be taken seriously, which is the entire reason why they changed his design later on during the saga. If you include DB, Piccolo Daimao is right there at the top (I think my kanji in my avatar says it all, and I even have it tattooed on my chest). If you include the ones who weren't the main villains throughout a particular arc, you'd have to include the likes of Zarbon, Dodoria, the Ginyu Tokusentai, #19, Dr. Gero, #17, #18, Dabura, just to name the most prominent ones, and even Vegeta, who was initially introduced as basically a smaller version of Freeza (proud, evil, ruthless, a killing machine and apparently unbeatable).

The way I view it, the arcs should be divided this way, along with the respective main villain(s):
Piccolo Daimao arc - Piccolo Daimao
23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc - Piccolo
Saiya-jin arc - Vegeta
Freeza arc - Freeza
Jinzouningen arc - #17 and #18
Cell arc - Cell
Majin Buu arc - Majin/Kid Buu

There are two additional main villains, who can be found in the Trunks Special: Future #17 and Future #18

The perfect villain is Freeza, since you can end up really hating him (he's evil, ruthless, proud, egotistical, maniacal, genocidal, uncaring, racist and sadistic). Not a single trace of goodness or respect towards life other than his own inside of him. Hence his place as arguably the most charismatic villain in all of Dragonball. In a way, that makes him my favorite villain, but there are other factors on which to judge that position, and Cell just has some sort of appeal in terms of the class + power combo that should make him extremely attractive, although he's just as egotistical, evil and ruthless as the others (in his first form, he absorbs millions of humans in a horrific way through his tail, and in his second form he murders thousands of people by destroying islands in an uncaring manner in search for #18). Kid Buu can't even really be deemed "evil", he just destroys everything and everyone in sight out of sheer pleasure, he probably doesn't even understand the concept of "right" or "wrong", he's just a force of nature whose only purpose is to destroy.

I highly doubt there's 1% of probability of it ever happening in the near future, in DBSuper or anywhere else, but I would more than welcome the concept of having Cell back at least for a few episodes.

If you include the Movies, then obviously Brolly has to be considered the most charismatic villain, since he's just a force of nature, supposed to be next-to-invincible and absolutely psychotic. I also like the concept of Turles, Cooler (to some degree) and Janenba, and I regard their respective movies (Movie 3, Movie 5 and Movie 12), along with Movie 8, as my favorite/the best ones, despite their non-canonness and their depiction of "what-if" scenarios based on the exploring of potentially interesting concepts/villains/events with a rushed plot.

I have some sort of fascination with demons/hell/the devil, so I've always had a special place for Dabura as well.

Not including Beerus in this, as he can't really be deemed "evil". Nor "good", either". He's neutral, no one's ally, he's been tasked with a "mission" and merely sees to it that it's done, with a few whims over trivial matters that cause him to destroy a little bit more than he was supposed to. However, he's laid-back, displays many comic characteristics and behaviors and is even gentle/polite, especially in BoG. Additionally, he's such a strange entity that he probably lacks the same understanding of "right" or "wrong" as normal, emotional beings have. It's not that he doesn't understand that, it's that he's BEYOND that. Whis doesn't seem to disapprove of any of his apparently "evil" actions, which further strengthens the theory. The concept of his personality/being is totally new in Dragonball prior to his introduction, which is part of his success among the fans, including myself.

If I had to make an absolute list of my all-time favorite characters, I'd have to go with:
1 - Vegeta
2 - Piccolo
3 - Tenshinhan
(Interestingly enough, all of them share a background of having been evil in the past and having turned good, although the pace at which they do it differs radically from each other; in Tenshinhan's case, all it takes is a few advices from Muten Roshi and one arc, in Piccolo's case, despite never discarding his seriousness and anti-social behavior, he goes from being a maniacal demon to a full-fledged good guy having all but lost all traces of evil in his heart in two or three arcs (by the Jinzouningen arc his transition is complete), while in Vegeta's case the progression is much more gradual and incremental, he was first introduced as a full-fledged villain, he displays some respect towards the Earthlings by refraining from killing them on Namek and making an alliance with them, he joins the gang in the Jinzouningen arc and has a son with Bulma - "the bad guy among the good guys" - and has his final instance of really evil wrongdoing in the early Majin Buu arc, letting himself become possessed by Babidi and killing hundreds or thousands of people at the stadium; after that, his transition is also complete and all that remains is his obsession to surpass Kakarotto and all fighters, to become number one in the Universe, his pride and his natural anti-social behavior and difficulty to adapt to times of peace, apart from his deep-down love for his family and life in general.
4 - Piccolo Daimao (could be higher up, it's a tough call)
5 - Cell
6 - Goku (yes, he's this low in my list and despite instances in which I found myself enthusiastically cheering for him as the sole ray of hope for defeating a particular villain - especially Freeza, given the circumstances -, I found myself smiling at the times in which he took a major beating at the hands of Piccolo Daimao and Beerus). I do admire him and his willingness, as a pure Saiya-jin, to keep overcoming his obstacles, adversaries and his own limits, which he does on a virtually infinite number of occasions, only to be found outclassed again and having to surpass himself yet once more, starting the entire process all over again, just like Vegeta, who despite having surpassed a number of warriors who had been previously stronger than him (Zarbon, Dodoria, Recoome, Ginyu, Freeza, #18, Cell) also had his own fair share of major ass-kickings (Zarbon, Recoome, Freeza, #18, Cell) after proclaiming himself - again - the strongest fighter in the entire Universe.
7 - Dabura
8 - Turles (if you include the movies)

Never been a fan of Gohan, except when he lost it, went Super Saiya-jin 2 and thrashed the Cell Juniors and Cell himself. Before that, he's a crybaby, and after that, he's a nerd more focused on studying and being overly-polite and well-spoken and well-mannered than tapping onto his immeasurable potential as a warrior.

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by MagicBox » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:32 pm

If we could get Giru reprised by Shinobu Satōchi (somehow, ANYHOW), Super would get a huge boost in my book.

I still love that little guy. Seeing him "validated" in another series would be a real treat.
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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by Basaku » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:23 pm

MaGyunia wrote:
I highly doubt there's 1% of probability of it ever happening in the near future, in DBSuper or anywhere else, but I would more than welcome the concept of having Cell back at least for a few episodes.
I would've liked that and there's almost perfect spot for that to happen - Age 786, 2 years after EOZ is when Present Cell would've been completed. They could easily pull "he survived" excuse and bring him back, even with additional cells/power of Buu/Beerus/Whis etc.

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by MaGyunia » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:27 am

Basaku wrote:
MaGyunia wrote:
I highly doubt there's 1% of probability of it ever happening in the near future, in DBSuper or anywhere else, but I would more than welcome the concept of having Cell back at least for a few episodes.
I would've liked that and there's almost perfect spot for that to happen - Age 786, 2 years after EOZ is when Present Cell would've been completed. They could easily pull "he survived" excuse and bring him back, even with additional cells/power of Buu/Beerus/Whis etc.
The concept wouldn't be totally new, though. Far from it, in fact. We've had demons (Piccolo Daimao), genocidal aliens (Freeza), cyborgs (#17, #18, Cell) and again demons/magical creatures (Majin Buu). The concept of having a fighter who had the abilities and techniques and could in fact absorb the power and characteristics of other warriors was introduced with Cell, but it was in fact partially copied with Super Buu (who also absorbs other fighters and takes on their characteristics and techniques) or, if you count GT, Bebi. Bringing back Cell would be awesome for the reasons I specified, but it would be far from an innovative concept, regardless of the ENORMOUS power boost he would get if they managed to add the cells of Majin Buu, Beerus and Whis to his genetic makeup.

The true entirely innovative concept as far as antagonists go (and I'll call him an antagonist, rather than a full-fledged villain) was introduced with Beerus, who can't be deemed "good" nor "evil", is a God and displays comic traits and laid-backness despite being the (second) most powerful entity in the entire Universe, far above the likes of Cell, the Kaioshin, Dabura, Majin/Super/Kid Buu, Ultimate Gohan, Gotenks, Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku, Super Saiya-jin 2 Vegeta and even Super Vegitto.

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by Mystic Tien » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:58 am

Basaku wrote:
MaGyunia wrote:
I highly doubt there's 1% of probability of it ever happening in the near future, in DBSuper or anywhere else, but I would more than welcome the concept of having Cell back at least for a few episodes.
I would've liked that and there's almost perfect spot for that to happen - Age 786, 2 years after EOZ is when Present Cell would've been completed. They could easily pull "he survived" excuse and bring him back, even with additional cells/power of Buu/Beerus/Whis etc.
Yes, now this one I like. Or they could easily pull out this: "there was one more survivor in Red Ribbon Army who knew about Dr.Gero's plan, or was watching everything, including his laboratory, etc"
Marco Polo wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Cool to see Gohan have a kill for once. He hasn't killed someone since Cell (or Broli if you want to count in General).
He almost got Videl killed in Battle of Gods tho.

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by NeoKING » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:11 pm

Some kind of Shadow Dragon throwback with the Super DBs.

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:35 pm

The Black Star Dragon Balls could appear and Mr. Popo would be like "These Dragon Balls are pure evil! I will destroy these at once!".
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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by funrush » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:57 pm

Does Majoob even count because it's still Uub? My votes go to Giru and the Shadow Dragons. Honorable mention goes to Baby.

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by Ushabtis » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:44 pm

I want Goku's Gi in GT to become Canon. absolutely love that outfit.
Jaco the Super Elite with The Great Saiyaman fighting crime for a spin-off series. Make it happen Toriyama

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by Cipher » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:55 pm

MagicBox wrote:If we could get Giru reprised by Shinobu Satōchi (somehow, ANYHOW), Super would get a huge boost in my book.

I still love that little guy. Seeing him "validated" in another series would be a real treat.
I thought about mentioning him here. If any character could cross over, it'd be him. A distinctly Toriyama contribution and a great addition to the cast.

However, even Giru is pretty specific to GT's scenario (a robotic space-Dragon Radar).

Re: above: I also love Goku's gi in GT.

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by DragonHermit » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:21 pm

Gogeta SSJ 4 > Whis/Beerus :mrgreen:

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by Taskmaster » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:22 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:Baby was one of the only good things about GT. He might be too good for the new stuff, though.
I this is the only time we'll partially agree.


But GT as a whole was terrible, the fights we bad, the action was bad everything about it was bad. I like to pretend it doesn't exist.

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by MaGyunia » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:26 pm

Taskmaster wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:Baby was one of the only good things about GT. He might be too good for the new stuff, though.
I this is the only time we'll partially agree.


But GT as a whole was terrible, the fights we bad, the action was bad everything about it was bad. I like to pretend it doesn't exist.
In a way, it actually doesn't, it was stated by Toriyama that he viewed GT as a side-story, happening only in a "what-if" scenario. Regardless of how good or bad it is (and I do think it has horrible traits to it, that it was made in a rush and that it has MAJOR flaws), it cannot be considered a direct canon continuation of DBZ, although there's nothing in the plot that would make it impossible or generate any timeline inconsistencies, which is the case with 12 of the 13 DBZ Movies, Episode of Bardock, etc.

I was glad that everything they've been throwing our way in the last years since 2008, after 11 years of inactivity, basically put an end to the years-long debate and "erased" GT from existence in a consistent manner. I wish they'd do the same with the last 3 episodes of DBZ, thus making it possible for us to view whatever happens after the defeat of Kid Buu as new, direct canon continuations of DBZ happening outside of this sort of 10 year gap we're basically stuck in until further notice. It's just frustrating to know that whatever happens during the arcs of DBSuper will eventually and inevitably lead to that last Tenkaichi Budokai and the introduction of Uub. I attribute the unsatisfactory ending of DBZ, and in fact the entirety of GT, to Toriyama's need to put an end to DBZ as soon as possible storyline-wise, due to the obvious and understandable fact that he was already running out of ideas by the Majin Buu arc and was extremely deteriorated after so many straight years of pressure generated by the need to consistently and constantly come up with new ideas for stories, characters, stages, etc.

Even from a pure or aesthetic visual point of view, I actually prefer any of the 13 DBZ Movies and all the Specials when compared to GT, as most of the movies had extremely good animation/fighting choreography despite being majorly flawed in terms of plot. In the same respect and along the same lines, there's no possible comparison between the Tarble Special, Kai, BoG, Fukkatsu no F or indeed DBSuper and GT, whether you judge it from a visual point of view or from a storyline/character development/plot one. All the stuff generated by Toriyama since 2008 was done so with a clear head and with a fresh spirit, and that resulted in the - once again, innovative - fantastic character background displayed in Beerus.

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:56 pm

I like the idea of Majuub, but I hate the execution and his overall bland/insipid personality. Uub should inherit the abilities of Kid Buu. A simple little power-up with candy beam mastery is boring. Give him full body manipulation. The weirder the better.

What I'd to see from GT are reenvisioned Shadow Dragons, starting with their backstory.
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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:02 pm

If we are getting new Dragon Balls then it would be cool if the Black Star Dragon Balls appear.
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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by MaGyunia » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:36 pm

It seems that in BoG/Fukkatsu no F/DBSuper they're deliberately avoiding to go down the road of any previous methods to attain massive power-ups seen throughout DBZ, and as a result of that it's definitely a long shot, but the concept of fusing Goku and Vegeta is just too appealing, especially taking into account what we've seen in the series, in Movie 12 and even GT. Although the Potara method of fusion brings better end results than the dance, either one would be fantastic to revisit, and as a result of that I'd have to go with Gogeta if I had to choose just one major character from GT to be (re)introduced in DBSuper. Won't happen, though, and the whole thread is nothing but an exercise of wishful thinking with virtually no probability of coming true, but it's interesting to see just what potential GT, as a sequel to DBZ, had that went wasted with such a rushed and hastily-created story.

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by Doctor. » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:44 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:I like the idea of Majuub, but I hate the execution and his overall bland/insipid personality. Uub should inherit the abilities of Kid Buu. A simple little power-up with candy beam mastery is boring. Give him full body manipulation. The weirder the better.

What I'd to see from GT are reenvisioned Shadow Dragons, starting with their backstory.
Basically Indian Luffy? :lol:

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:04 pm

Doctor. wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:I like the idea of Majuub, but I hate the execution and his overall bland/insipid personality. Uub should inherit the abilities of Kid Buu. A simple little power-up with candy beam mastery is boring. Give him full body manipulation. The weirder the better.

What I'd to see from GT are reenvisioned Shadow Dragons, starting with their backstory.
Basically Indian Luffy? :lol:
That sounds awesome! :P

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Re: If you were to see a GT character made canon in DBS Who?

Post by Beerus-sama » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:17 pm

I liked Pan's design in GT
I would also like to see Goku's Gi of GT too.
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