Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

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Terez
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Re: Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

Post by Terez » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:27 am

Locutus wrote:[spoiler]
Terez wrote:
Locutus wrote:Sorry in advance for bumping an old thread and for asking a possibly already answered question, but I would like to know if in the Episode 13 dialogue when Whis and Elder Kai talk about "The World" are they referring to the universe or Earth? I assume the Universe since later, Herms states the context for the nullification scene "The universe fails to inexplicably end" along with thr visuals in the episode, like a light exploding and covering rhe universe all the way to the Kaioshin realm.
The term used is sekai (世界) and it's generally open to interpretation, but when they're going for "all of existence" that's the term they use. The line from episode 13:
それが超超高密度エネルギーを生みだしおった。あれがはじけたら…。今度こそ世界が終わるな。
Simmons: ...it produced a super-duper-high-density energy. If it were to burst open, then it would be the end of the world (sekai) for sure.
Toei: That clash also produced super, super highly dense energy. If that energy disperses, the world (sekai) is done for.
Dragon Team: ...that clash also produced super, *super* dense energy. If that energy disperses, the world (sekai) will end for sure.
One quote that's useful for demonstrating how sekai is used to mean "absolutely everything" is this one from episode 47:
全王さまは一瞬でどんなものでも消滅させることがおできになるんですよ。悪人はもちろん星はおろか銀河そして宇宙さえその気になれば世界そのものだってなくしてしまうことが。
Toei: Zeno-oh sama can erase anything from existence in an instant. Not just evildoers, but stars (星/hoshi), galaxies (銀河/ginga), and even universes (宇宙/uchū). If he so wished, he could erase all existence (sekai).
Dragon Team: ...the King of All can wipe out anything in the blink of an eye. Naturally this includes evil-doers... Planets... (hoshi) Galaxies... (ginga) Even universes. (uchū) If he felt like it, our entire world (sekai) would be no more.
In this context, since "sekai" is the superlative above even "uchū", it has to mean "all existence" (or at least, the entire timeline).
[/spoiler]
So in the case with episode 13, "world" refers to "all of existence" Wow, that's q great thing to know. Thank you for the translation! Guess "Universe" is also what's accurate in that context.
I think in this case, it might just refer to the universe, which is after all traditionally synonymous with "all of existence". I think it's open to interpretation, but from the context, it's definitely above "world" in the sense of "planet".

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Re: Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

Post by Terez » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:26 am

Locutus wrote:So in the case with episode 13, "world" refers to "all of existence" Wow, that's q great thing to know. Thank you for the translation! Guess "Universe" is also what's accurate in that context.
I just found an interesting counterexample, Locutus, so I figured I should add it here. From Super episode 1:
すごいぞ。やっぱりサタンは世界の いや 宇宙のヒーローだ!
Simmons: Amazing! Satan really is the world's (世界/sekai)--no, the universe's (宇宙/uchū) hero!
Toei: Amazing! Satan is indeed the world's...no, the universe's greatest hero!
Dragon Team: Satan truly is the hero of the Earth—no, the whole universe!
As I said earlier, it is open to interpretation much in the same way as "world" can be open to interpretation in English, but I couldn't think of an example of it being used as the smaller unit in a comparison like this, so when I noticed this one I figured I should share. (It's kind of weird that Dragon Team used "Earth" instead of "world"; I wonder what the reasoning was for that.)

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Re: Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

Post by Simere » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:33 am

Terez, this exchange from episode 16:
Minute: 16
Context: Vegeta begs to be Whis' disciple.
Vegeta: "I ask of you, please train me!"
Whis: "Alright then. But only if you become a God of Destruction."
Significance: In case Whis' expression, tone, and Vegeta's reaction didn't make it clear, this was probably not a serious offer.

EmmaWinters asserted that the phrasing should have been even more explicit. I remember you questioning whether her take was accurate, though, but you didn't elaborate on what exactly you thought might be wrong about it. Could you now? I'm still not entirely clear on just how dismissive Whis was being.

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Re: Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

Post by Terez » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:39 am

Simere wrote:Terez, this exchange from episode 16:
Minute: 16
Context: Vegeta begs to be Whis' disciple.
Vegeta: "I ask of you, please train me!"
Whis: "Alright then. But only if you become a God of Destruction."
Significance: In case Whis' expression, tone, and Vegeta's reaction didn't make it clear, this was probably not a serious offer.

EmmaWinters asserted that the phrasing should have been even more explicit. I remember you questioning whether her take was accurate, though, but you didn't elaborate on what exactly you thought might be wrong about it. Could you now? I'm still not entirely clear on just how dismissive Whis was being.
I asked Herms about it.

Edit: I only had a vague memory of that myself, so I had to check my dialogue files because I tend to link Herms tweets in them when he comments on a dispute. Anyway, the context I was talking about: they made it a suspenseful moment, and made it look like Vegeta was agreeing to become a god of destruction, but then he said he was going to give Whis the best food ever instead. That was the joke. And that's why the Over8000 interpretation never made sense to me.

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Re: Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

Post by Simere » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:44 am

Thank you. I forgot about Simmons for comparing translations. Still slightly confused, though. Vegeta's "all right" — grammatically, this was an affirmative in response to a proposition? I always interpreted it in the "in that case" sense. I was supposed to think for a second he was accepting the "offer"?

Also, that's Over8000? This is what their line says in my file.

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Re: Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

Post by Terez » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:59 am

Simere wrote:Thank you. I forgot about Simmons for comparing translations. Still slightly confused, though. Vegeta's "all right" — grammatically, this was an affirmative in response to a proposition? I always interpreted it in the "in that case" sense. I was supposed to think for a second he was accepting the "offer"?

Also, that's Over8000? This is what their line says in my file.
I didn't download their files at the time; I got the subs directly from Emma, and my version is version 3, so perhaps you got an earlier one. (It would seem that this line was the subject of some debate among the Over8000 team.)
Simere wrote:I was supposed to think for a second he was accepting the "offer"?
I think so, yes. It's fairly believable within Vegeta's character, and they don't really give you long enough to think about it too hard. You're supposed to believe he's about to accept Whis's condition, but then he throws a curveball.

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Re: Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

Post by MoscoSama » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:56 pm

I have a question about the context of Vegeta's line from episode 122

Vegeta : " You were faster and stronger when you fought Kakarot!"

Seems simple enough but I've had some tell me it was a taunt from Vegeta kind of like how if you were to say "You aren't so hot anymore" or "Not such a tough guy anymore" as opposed to the common interpretation that Jiren was holding back against him.

Was the line straightforward or is there context to the way it was said that would make it a taunt?

Thanks in Advance

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Re: Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

Post by SuperSaiyanMastaDon » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:22 pm

Episode 5 (9:55)

Beerus- I see. So that’s what you used to defeat Freeza. It looks like you powered up a bit.

Episode 5 (10:59)

Beerus- You’re pretty good. I can see how you managed to defeat Freeza. But if this is all you’ve got, defeating Freeza would probably be the best you are capable of.


Are these accurate?

Who are the good translators? The Dragon Team? Which version does Steve Simmons do? Or is he on that team?

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Re: Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

Post by Vegard Aune » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:38 am

SuperSaiyanMastaDon wrote:Episode 5 (9:55)

Beerus- I see. So that’s what you used to defeat Freeza. It looks like you powered up a bit.

Episode 5 (10:59)

Beerus- You’re pretty good. I can see how you managed to defeat Freeza. But if this is all you’ve got, defeating Freeza would probably be the best you are capable of.


Are these accurate?

Who are the good translators? The Dragon Team? Which version does Steve Simmons do? Or is he on that team?
Okay, just gonna answer these one at a time:
Yes, those translations are accurate.
The good translators would be Dragon Team, Over8000, the official subs on CR (for the most part) and Steve Simmons on the official BDs.
Dragon Team was an entirely fan-based endeavor back before the simulcast started. Steve Simmons was not involved, he's one of FUNimation's own translators.

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Re: Fact Checker (update: Ep.51)

Post by SuperSaiyanMastaDon » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:53 pm

How does Dragon Team rank according to Herms? They are really good right?

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