Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by coola » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:22 am

Now, i don't want to turn it into hatred thread, don't insult each other for preferences :wink:

Not including Kai, with was DBZ on diet, Dragon Ball Super is 1st new series in about 20 years, because of that, didn't we raised our expectations too high? Me personally, i like character interactions, and would prefer more filler episodes, from what i've read, people say that GT is better, not only in animation regard, but pacing as well. After i saw Crystal and Saint Seiya Gold, i knew we won't be getting great animation every week, while i was watching Sailor Moon R Movie on DVD, i've got little sad, that 1993 anime movie look more spectacular and fluent, than most anime made in 2015. But, almost all shows look like that, and we have to accept it, i ignore animation, and just enjoy story and character interaction :)
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:27 am

Uhhh.... no. I don't think my expectations are too high.

I'm actually been kinda mellow with the show but much of the characterization (most of the characters are either a bit off or are like parodies of themselves), animation, and the pacing is problematic.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by DBZMerciter2005 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:46 am

From what I've seen in the Super episode threads: Yes, a lot of us have. The majority of the fanbase has had years to deconstruct each character, moment, plot hole, and nuance of the series. Popular fanfiction has come about to either reaffirm or break down assumptions we make about characters. The fan stories I've read (note: not much, mostly DBM, DBZ:A, and some DBAF) all appear to have deeper plot than the majority of the DB series does. The fanbase has gotten older and in turn many expect the series to grow with them. Depth, great character interaction and development, interesting villains, these are only small parts of what make a more mature plot line. DBS has the capability to meet those expectations.

However most fans seem to forget that this is a kids' series. It can be compared to Pokemon, Power Ranges/Super Sentai, Yu-Gi-Oh, etc. The main characters are mostly static, the plot lines are somewhat predictable, and consistent canon just does not exist. It will never be more than that no matter how much anyone wants it. Goku (and Vegeta to an extent) will always win in the end. Characters will be shoved aside, treated like they're nothing, and overall forgotten to make way for the new cast that will still do nothing but support Goku (and Vegeta) on his quest to get stronger. Many cannot accept that because they've had years to attach to Z's other main characters.

I can understand legitimate criticism regarding pacing, animation, and overall storytelling. However I've seen posts that make me believe that some people take the series too seriously and too personally to really enjoy it. It makes me feel bad because no one should be getting so angry, upset, and riled up over an anime, no matter which one it is. I feel this happens because people set the bar so high for a series that was never going to hit that bar in the first place.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by NeoKING » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:55 am

First televised sequel in 18 years, kept mostly a secret until the actual airing, and we held it to high standards?

No, TOEI is just failing to deliver.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:57 am

After watching BoG, F, EoB, 2008 OVA, and so on, my expectations going into Super were incredibly low. The show has met all my expectations so far; it's exactly what I figured it'd be like.

Can it get better? Again, my expectations are at an all time low. I heavily doubt it'll ever reach the pinnacle DBZ did. The tone will never shift to something akin to the Piccolo-Cell saga. And, at this point, I don't even think we'll ever get a true sense of tension, which was even prominent in the Buu saga.

On the bright side, because I don't expect much from Super, I have managed to get some enjoyment out of it. No where near as much as I did from DBZ or even DB, but it is more entertaining than GT, at least, which I find unbearably boring.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Chuquita » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:12 pm

I'm enjoying Super for the most part (the awkwardness of episode 5 battles aside).

I think I had too high expectations for Toei to be able to work with Funi to have an official stream up and running from the start. I actually thought after F that Toei would understand the whole international market and internet age thing better, but I was wrong.

I have expectations for the Uni 6 arc's story, but I'm not too attached to them to the point where I'll feel any more than sad if they're dashed. Come on, Princess Vegeta and routinely bad at attempting to be a villain Kakarrotto.

I'm also hoping if we do a parallel that the only change for Bulma will be heart Uni 6 self has her lavender hair color from the manga.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by B » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:13 pm

I don't know. It's very clear the people in charge of Dragon Ball don't understand what a juggernaut it truly is. Super is barely available in all of Japan, let alone a worldwide release. It's the curse of being an evergreen series; they know they don't have to do much to sell it, and doing much they do not. They're not going to enlist A-class talent on a regular basis because to them, it's just a Sunday morning distraction for kids that will be on TV for a short time, and is a means to get kids into arcades and play Dragon Ball Heroes. They see little value in the show itself as a product and its always been that way. It's that way with a multitude of other series. You'd think Dragon Ball would be the show big enough that it could at least pretend it was going to slightly change that, but alas. Can't wait for that Toonami broadcast at midnight on a Saturday in 2017; that's where the big bucks are, of course.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by sintzu » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:30 pm

The pacing won't be a problem when you watch multiple episodes at once instead of once every week.

Animation isn't Toie's strong point nowadays so I'm not that surprised it's having some problems but hopefully they'll be fixed on the home release.

The story we're getting is the one in BOG so if someone didn't like the movie then they're probably not going to like this.

Overall I think it's a good series but hopefully they'll improve it moving foreword such as the animation and the amount of screen time the other characters get.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by LuckyCat » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:33 pm

I would say so. I love the new and original material, but the retelling portions make just want to watch the movies. Also Kai, for all its flaws, had great pacing. We might have gotten comfortable with that, and now we're back to DBZ speeds of storytelling.

Still, there's a lot left to go, and we might just be getting the slower episodes in the TV-watcher light summer season. I haven't lost hope in some epic moments in the future.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by sintzu » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:44 pm

LuckyCat wrote:Now we're back to DBZ speeds of storytelling.
This arc would be 30+ episodes if it was part of Z.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:45 pm

sintzu wrote:
LuckyCat wrote:Now we're back to DBZ speeds of storytelling.
This arc would be 30+ episodes if it was part of Z.
If there's build up time.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:14 pm

How so?! I'm not asking for much. Just good animation (episode 1-3, episode 6), entertaining plot, soundtrack and pacing.

- This doesn't follow any manga and most episode 4 seemed like filler. Episode 7 dragged too.

- This is the original version and like always, I shouldn't have to worry about the voice actors performance, because they are the best.
What I get instead?! The worst japanese performance I ever saw from Kaio voice actor.

- The most famous/best selling anime worlwide gets a new tv series in 18 years. Technology advanced so much. Am I wrong for expecting overall better quality than back then and not something so shit like episode 5?!

- Is it wrong expecting new content for Super, the first tv series in 18 years, instead of the first two arcs be a retelling from the two last movies?!

I didn't have high expectations at all. Just asking for the basics.
NeoKING wrote:First televised sequel in 18 years, kept mostly a secret until the actual airing, and we held it to high standards?

No, TOEI is just failing to deliver.
This.
Last edited by FortuneSSJ on Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by precita » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:17 pm

I think expectations for Super will raise once we get to new material. For now its re-telling the movies which some people either feel:

1. Is a waste of time completely

2. Don't feel like watching the movie stuff with worse animation

Personally I don't mind but I can see how others can be bored of Super till the movie adaptions end.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by coola » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:52 pm

Unfortunately, because it is such popular juggernaut, Toei can put bad animation, and people will buy it anyway :( After i saw what they did for 20th Anniversary of Sailor Moon, i've set bar pretty low, so I'm not much disappointed in Super, but, fact that bad animation of episode 5 was even commented on non anime news sites show, how popular DB is. And how high expectations are.
Last edited by coola on Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:56 pm

I, personally, wasn't expecting much. I was expecting a fun, entertaining series that can provide great character interaction and moments, and so far Super has been delivering. There are no good fights yet, but SSG vs Beerus may turn that around. It's better than some arcs of the original series, and it's worse than others. It fits right in with the rest of the series.

Now, the internet was definitely having too high expectations. I blame nostalgia, as Dragon Ball never was that good of a series to begin with.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:33 pm

I agree with a lot of the points already said.

I wasn't expecting too much. It's been a fun, simple story so far albeit with some bad animation, which will thankfully most likely be fixed on the DVD/blu-rays.

I am enjoying it better than GT so far, particularly with the characterization and humour, both of which was lacking even in the first 7 episodes.

That said, even I do get bored of seeing basically the same material retold. Hopefully there will be more "filler" type episodes after this Battle of Gods arc finishes, there is a lot of potential in a couple episodes expanding on Goku and Vegeta's training with Whis, and Frieza's training (maybe Champa will be involved).
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Shinsa » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:29 pm

NOTE: Sorry for the negative rant in advanced because I'm very disappointed with Super

I'm kinda in between, after seeing battle of gods and some of the other recent DBZ stuff like Yo and EoB my expectations were really low. I pretty much accept the fact that the new DBZ writting is terrible and not offering much new to the table in terms of character, lore and world. However i was still hyped.....its not until i starting watching the show, realizing it was a worse retelling of BoG with terrible animation that I've become really disappointed with it. There doesnt seem to be any passion in the show anymore, no passion for art, story telling and music! I' also accept that modern anime art will never be as good as the older stuff but this show is taking cheap animation to another level....i've seen way better fan animation then this! My disappointment has gotten to a point where i dont even want to watch the show anymore and will wait for the new material when ever that is.
I understand the show is meant for kids but Toei and Toriyama should atleast respect and understand its fans (they are kinda going a George Lucas on us)

So yea my expectations were to high for the show and thats pretty sad to know that DBZ has such low standards now a day.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Captain Strawberry » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:36 pm

Have you guys seen episode 6?
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:51 pm

I didn't really set my expectations too high. I mean, I was very intrigued about the prospect of Super and ultimately the placement of the show left me feeling a little cold, but for what it's worth so far, I'm immensely enjoying Super for what it is. Yeah, they're have been a few pacing problems and some bad animation, but that's pretty much par of the course for Dragon Ball, regardless of the era.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by SSJ Human » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:05 pm

I'm fine with what's come out so far. I wasn't expecting some grandiose storytelling in the first few episodes so I'm fine with how it's progressed.

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