Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Cipher
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Cipher » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:25 pm

EXBadguy wrote:What're you talking about? Many folks outside this community were expecting the new material to have the quality as the first three sagas before BoG was announced.
No denying that. But everything he's done since, from the Boo arc to his post Dragon Ball-material, has indicated that era of storytelling isn't a style he's going to return to. (And as a small point of dissent, I don't think the two Piccolo arcs quite fall into that mold.)
VintageSaiyan wrote:This is so annoying and it's being thrown around every single time somebody criticizes Super. IMO the "rose tinted glasses" are being worn by those that defend this steaming pile of turd, it has nothing to do with nostalgia and everything to do with standards.
I'm talking about production and pacing -- I can see why you might not like the story as much.

No one should use the phrase "steaming pile of turd" while legitimately discussing a piece of work, especially in a thread like this aimed at sussing out expectations vs. flaws, etc.

But literally picture what this place would look like if we had weekly threads during the Namek/Freeza arc. Actually try to imagine that. I don't think most people appreciate what a shitshow that would be, because they watched Z without first reading the manga, and on a daily schedule, all of which dampened the impact of one bad episode, instance of poor pacing or poor adaptation. But, like, yikes. I get that Z has high highs, but it has a lot of lows along the way -- many of which I have no doubt would be deemed franchise-ending if given a weeks' reflection on message boards.

Again, strictly from a production/pacing/adaptation side.

Toei did make a mistake with Super by not allocating particularly high resources to its first five or so episodes, to be fair.
ExBadguy wrote:cuz some of the old movies did have better writing the the last two new movies, so there's definitely potential for Toei to improve in that area.
God, no. The old movies are triple/double-feature action spectacles meant to be flashy series advertisements for Japanese children on breaks, and they're totally fun through that lens, but most of them barely even have writing outside of facilitating a fight with the main villain.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by soulnova » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:31 pm

I'm going to be honest. I did set my expectations so high... I had hoped for a post-EoZ story with Goku, Uub, Pan plus new young characters to bring fresh blood to the series. When it was revealed we would start after Buu and before BoG, my expectation crashed down so hard to Earth they ended up provoking an Extinction Event.

I was -this- close to start crying. I really almost did.


Since then I'm simply enjoying the ride for what it is.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:04 pm

I cannot really have expectations until the show starts to be consistently original again. I enjoyed the first two episodes, so that leaves the series in the green for me.

Battle of Gods is not a story that suits a weekly episodic format, and I have nothing but patience for Toei staff being told they have to stretch 3-5 minutes of movie into a 20 minute episode. You probably could have done it better than Toei has been doing, but the concept is so bad that I see no reason to waste that much energy on trying to see how. 'F', of course, should only benefit from a little more room to breath, and seeing that flounder will be more of a missed opportunity.
Cipher wrote:I don't know why anyone would come in now expecting Saiyan-Cell-like writing from Toriyama when they're such anomalies in his catalogue, and clearly not what he's interested in doing tonally or thematically. Kei17 actually had a great little piece in the Kanzenshuu 30th Anniversary e-zine about how those arcs never felt consistent with the Toriyama/Dragon Ball spirit to him (which, he proposed, like Dr. Slump, derives a lot of its energy and pleasure from a central, basically optimistic and magnetic character shrinking an ever-expanding world around them). The arcs you cite do a lot to finish some intellectual through-lines of the series, but never feel quite in-tone with the rest.
Precisely. Resurrection F bellowed this fact for all to hear. It was as if he was trying to understand his thought process from 1993 (I doubt he had the 90's Toei movies in mind) but the self-awareness that makes the best of his lighthearted stuff (and Battle of Gods, more importantly) so great bled into the movie and undercut it. The great divide that Super is going to have to bridge (all right, I guess I do have expectations) is how to work as a sequel to the Saiyan-Cell arcs as much as the rest; Majin Buu worked so well as a finale because Toriyama was basically making fun of himself as winded down. I would rather Super continue to introduce and work with new concepts and characterizations, you know, telling a moving story, as the first three "Z" arcs did rather that simply settling for being extra content in a series that still really ended in 1995. If Toriyama really has no interest in doing that, it hardly spells doom for Super, but it will not be doing anything that more movies or specials could not over much smaller time frames. He has given us a multiverse and a hilarious duo of deities, so he has done well so far.
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Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
Just like Dragon Ball since Chapter #4.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Ree » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:21 am

I like Super but I don't think its too much to ask for good animation where it counts, characterization or for them to not retell the movies.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Blackstripe » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:33 am

At this point, I really do feel like their retelling of BoG is inferior. There's very little to like about this version in comparison. Hopefully things pick up in the Universe 6 arc.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by YamchaKaiokenx20 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:53 pm

All I'm hoping for is more action from the non saiyan Z Fighters :lol: :x
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by precita » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:28 pm

I just really hope they eventually set the new story after the end of Z. I want to see young Pan, Uub, and teenage Trunks and Goten.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Sodhi » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:13 pm

I have really enjoyed every episode so far except episode 5. I just want to see a epic powerups and fights, I am hoping we get a good ssjg goku vs beerus fight, where they go all out.
Note: That engraged Vegeta vs. Beerus was not bad, considering it was a pretty one sided fight. :D

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Scarlet Spider » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:59 pm

I didn't have high expectations for this series. I've pretty much come to terms this series will be about Goku and Vegeta only. And constant disappointment from the rest of the Z Fighters. Gohan jobbing. Gotenks being useless like always. Etc. I really wish they'd get their chances with non fodder enemies.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by funrush » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:36 pm

I mean as of now it's literally just BoG on a boat, so forgive me if I expected a little more. Maybe some plot variation or new stories or something. It's been 8 episodes and this Champa guy hasn't shown up. I'm sure when we actually get to new material, whenever that is, that it's gonna be another Goku and Vegeta story but even that's cool with me at this point. I just wanna see something new. Also I think pacing is a thing that needs a little work, the last few episodes were fine, but I felt like the Pilaf episode didn't really need to exist. Overall I'm still decently optimistic.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Muffin Man » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:12 am

My biggest problem with Super right now is that it's just failing to hold my attention. I mean it's not actively insulting my intelligence the way GT did, I'll give it that, and I definitely plan to continue watching it, but I doubt I'll ever want to rewatch it. Unless something drastically changes, Battle of Gods and Resurrection F (and any other films they release) will be what I add to my home collection to represent this era. The films aren't perfect, in fact they are quite shallow, but they are at least fast-paced and fun (and beautifully animated...). Super maintains the shallowness but makes it long, slow, and boring (and crappily animated...).

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Thanos » Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:15 pm

I have little to no expectations. As silly as it may sound, I'm just grateful that they're doing something, especially since we're on the cusp of the 30th anniversary of the series airing on television. And it's better than GT, so I'm perfectly satisfied with it, even the episodes we've had thus far. In fact, there have been some genuinely great moments already and I'm just excited to see the new stuff.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:10 pm

I don't, I've been watching better animes. The thing is.. Dragon Ball, Saint Seiya and Naruto automatically make me watch their new stuff because of my nostalgic feelings. I just can't control my curiosity when it comes to old-school. Even so, I admit I liked some of Dragon Ball Super has to offer and disliked a lot of things, naturally.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by sbk » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:08 pm

I don't think it's too much to expect the sequel of Dragon Ball Z to actually take place after the events of Dragon Ball Z, instead of being a retelling of movies that were just released

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Mystic Tien » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:03 pm

Of course we have, I told people to lower their expectation as much as possible, before starting watching Super, but a lot of people expected something incredibly great from it, that's why they are disappointed now. Given how both Toriyama and Toei are looking at this franchise right now, we shouldn't expect anything even particularly great from it. To know how "well" Toei treats their franchises, we should not set our eyes further than Sailor Moon Crystal, which was essentialy the revival of franchise with the brand new TV series, just like Super was, or this atrocity which is anime of One Piece post timeskip. Toei doesn't give a damn. The more popular series is, the more chances Toei puts as little effort as possible in it. And Toriyama, from what little I read about his comments on Battle of Gods, Revival of F and new material in general, doesn't want to put much effort in creating new Dragon Ball stories, he treats it as this one funny thing which he may do to keep japanese little boys entertained, with Toei seemingly asking him to be involved. Zero expectations is the best thing right now. Heck, I went with the least amount of expectations possible to this series, and I still got disappointed somehow.

By the way, this is the way how people should go with everything - zero expectations, zero hopes, and only, and only then people will be able to fully enjoy a product, being it an anime series/cartoon/a movie, or comics/books. Anything else will lead to become disappointed or having their image of product being crushed (sometimes in a positive way, but very, very rarely.) Open minds for everything is the best in my opinion.
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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Scott » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:52 am

I had normal expectations before it started. I didn't expect it to be better than Z, that would be an incredible thing to achieve, but i at least expected to enjoy it and i'm just not. It's pretty much bad all over, the only things i like about the series so far is Goku, Goten, Trunks and the opening and ending, everything else is awful.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by Super_Vegetto » Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:27 am

I had extremely low expectations after Battle of Gods and Revival of F, didn't expect it to be better than Z or even as good as the previous movies. Super so far is trash and nothing indicates it will become better.

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Re: Do we have too high expectations for Super?

Post by mboswi » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:04 pm

No. I don't think so.
I think they are just disrespecting the franchise and their fans, specially regarding the animation. Worst in ages.

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