Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:56 pm

Doctor. wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Which in itself feels like a repeat of Gohan. In the Boo saga she didn't seem so hard on Goten nor as worried about him. It seemed Goku's death mellowed her out. Though we could argue she's not as bad now as she isn't forcing books into Goten's hands all the time.

Perhaps, but it feels like a weird regression. If they subtly had Boo become more of a dick for some reason, I guess it'd be better, but it seems he regressed, just to progress again. This Boo probably wouldn't have stopped killing. Hell Boo didn't whine or groan at Satan telling him to stop, he thought about it and said ok. Boo was a really good friend of Satan, but now he's a horrible friend.
Yea, it may be a repeat. But at least it's something more than just bitching 24/7.

Someone brought this up elsewhere, but it's possible he's grumpy because he has to hibernate soon in the F arc. I doubt Toei is gonna address it at all, but it's a possibility.
Could be, or just feeding into an older character trait rather than progressing her. It may be too soon to call.

That'd be really interesting if they actually make that the truth. I'd buy it. Especially if Boo actually apologizes for being a shithead.
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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:57 pm

Mr. Boo should apologize by giving Mr. Satan mouth present.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by dbgtFO » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:59 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Doctor. wrote: Someone brought this up elsewhere, but it's possible he's grumpy because he has to hibernate soon in the F arc. I doubt Toei is gonna address it at all, but it's a possibility.
That'd be really interesting if they actually make that the truth. I'd buy it. Especially if Boo actually apologizes for being a shithead.
Yeah, I brought that up as a possible reason as to why Buu was acting so out of character.
It's probably too much to hope for they'll actually go with that :roll:

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:01 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Doctor. wrote: Someone brought this up elsewhere, but it's possible he's grumpy because he has to hibernate soon in the F arc. I doubt Toei is gonna address it at all, but it's a possibility.
That'd be really interesting if they actually make that the truth. I'd buy it. Especially if Boo actually apologizes for being a shithead.
Yeah, I brought that up as a possible reason as to why Buu was acting so out of character.
It's probably too much to hope for they'll actually go with that :roll:
He doesn't have the stat trinity of importance, so of course they won't do anything with Boo.
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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by Doctor. » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:03 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:He doesn't have the stat trinity of importance, so of course they won't do anything with Boo.
What's that stat trinity again? Liking to fight, loving food and what else? Boo fits those two at least.

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:05 pm

Doctor. wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:He doesn't have the stat trinity of importance, so of course they won't do anything with Boo.
What's that stat trinity again? Liking to fight, loving food and what else? Boo fits those two at least.
Only thinking about both food and fighting. Dunno if Boo likes fighting that much.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:48 pm

1. Most love fighting
2. Must love food
3. Have almost or absolutely no life outside of fighting.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:He doesn't have the stat trinity of importance, so of course they won't do anything with Boo.
What's that stat trinity again? Liking to fight, loving food and what else? Boo fits those two at least.
Only thinking about both food and fighting. Dunno if Boo likes fighting that much.
Boo did love fighting. He was super eager to fight Goku and Gotenks so much he'd stop killing for a while. Boo loved fighting, but now he doesn't care so much. It's kinda like Beerus who was so crazy to find a rival and challenge, but once Whis mentions Goku and Vegeta together could give him a challenge, he suddenly backs down from the idea.
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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:36 pm

Buu is an insufferable dipshit.

I think the cast thinks so too, considering nobody seemed concerned by him getting his ass handed to him.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:42 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:Buu is an insufferable dipshit.

I think the cast thinks so too, considering nobody seemed concerned by him getting his ass handed to him.
Chi-Chi was for some reason..,
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:53 pm

Doctor. wrote:
About Boo, I think they're setting him up to change. The whole "I'm strong, so I do what I want" speech he had in episode 6, proceded by the beating he got by Beerus. It feels like it may lead somewhere.
lol. Ain't a single character changing in this series.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:58 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Majin Boo. There was a charm to his gluttony, in Super, he's basically become Eric Cartman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOfriurWNmY
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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:16 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Majin Boo. There was a charm to his gluttony, in Super, he's basically become Eric Cartman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOfriurWNmY
Oh my God. I'm fucking dying over here. :lol: :clap:

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by Cipher » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:34 pm

VegettoEX wrote:The only item I've truly disliked so far and can't hand-wave away as either an anomaly or mountain-out-of-a-molehill has been Kuririn's "Why me?" That's such a movie-only thing and to see it come up again here is rather disheartening.
As much as I've enjoyed Super so far, I hated that. I don't even think that little "catchphrase" ever appeared in Z proper (or GT). That's pure movie Toei, and it's jarring, though maybe less so to fans who aren't as familiar with all those little tics.

I'm also rather disheartened by Boo's characterization, but that's carried along from Battle of Gods. Boo is rather calm and caring in GT, which I prefer. (Though as an in-universe way of sooooomewhat justifying things, this is likely no more than a year or so after the Boo arc vs. GT's fifteen.)

EDIT -- Videl. Oh, Videl, Videl, Videl. I initially wasn't going to include her because I think it's a bit too early to tell, but things aren't boding well, and the whole "I'm just here for Pan" bit in Battle of Gods really didn't sit well with me. I was already disappointed with the way GT handles her, but at least there it's understandable because the cast is small and focused, and she gets to do some things, like work on a spaceship and suit up as Saiyaman Mark II. Even those mark a preferable degree of non-importance to being a housewife/incubator, especially for material set so close chronologically to the end of her introductory arc.

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by Scott » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:46 pm

Videl for the same reasons everyone else has said, they have basically made her a housewife far too soon after she was a badass fighter. Her character now isn't even in the slightest bit like her character from Z. The design of her is awful too, it doesn't look anything like Videl. They could easily have passed her off as someone else.

Gohan, the character has been completely ruined, it's like they copied GT and just made him a pointless nerd. How about showing some originality ? Why couldn't he be a bit nerd and a bit like his old self ?

Buu, same reasons as everyone else, he's become a jerk. It seems like Mr.Satan fears Buu rather than see's him as a close friend. It shouldn't be that way at all.

Vegeta, there is too much goofyness added to his character, i can't stand him this way. People laugh at him making faces, doing karaoke and being a chef........i don't get what is so great about seeing this side to Vegeta personally, it just seems like lame fan service. That is not the Vegeta i remember or want him to end up being like. It started towards the end of Z but it wasn't that bad, now it is happening a lot. I know it's likely that he would mellow out now that he isn't so cold hearted, but that doesn't mean he needs to become this. I'm not looking forward to the scenes with Goku and Vegeta, i bet they will be nothing but goofyness. They need be careful in my opinion, they could end up ruining one of the greatest characters in the franchise.

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:18 am

Cipher wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:The only item I've truly disliked so far and can't hand-wave away as either an anomaly or mountain-out-of-a-molehill has been Kuririn's "Why me?" That's such a movie-only thing and to see it come up again here is rather disheartening.
As much as I've enjoyed Super so far, I hated that. I don't even think that little "catchphrase" ever appeared in Z proper (or GT). That's pure movie Toei, and it's jarring, though maybe less so to fans who aren't as familiar with all those little tics.
I hated that even in the movies. Why do they treat Kuririn as a loser in the first place, because he is short? It's awesome in TFS because it's a parody, but I always found it very annoying in the movies.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:43 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Cipher wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:The only item I've truly disliked so far and can't hand-wave away as either an anomaly or mountain-out-of-a-molehill has been Kuririn's "Why me?" That's such a movie-only thing and to see it come up again here is rather disheartening.
As much as I've enjoyed Super so far, I hated that. I don't even think that little "catchphrase" ever appeared in Z proper (or GT). That's pure movie Toei, and it's jarring, though maybe less so to fans who aren't as familiar with all those little tics.
I hated that even in the movies. Why do they treat Kuririn as a loser in the first place, because he is short? It's awesome in TFS because it's a parody, but I always found it very annoying in the movies.
Image

If they go along with it, they're dead...
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by precita » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:47 pm

Beerus is flanderzied from Battle of Gods. Instead of being an ambiguous God he's basically turned into Freeza 2.0 with a love for food.

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by Babbu » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:09 am

Yeah the portrayal of Beerus is something I started complaining about in the 2nd episode. Feels like a totally different character in Toei's hands.

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by Blackstripe » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:56 pm

I do agree that Beerus' portrayal is too sinister here. His actions aren't the problem. It's his demeanor. He shouldn't be so sadistic about everything. I much preferred his matter-of-fact attitude from the movies when it came to his destruction.

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Re: Who's flanderization in Super is the most disheartening?

Post by irreality » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:06 pm

FWIW, flanderization is not the same as out of character/different characterization, or even off-putting characterization. It refers to reducing someone to a single character trait. Beerus being more evil is not a flanderization since he still has lots of character traits (loves food, sleeping, is capricious and impatient, etc). Whether this is a bad or good characterization is a matter of taste. Same with Mr. Buu being more temperamental. As far as I know he is still as well rounded as he ever was. He is just more hair-trigger and less enamoured by Mr. Satan than people expect him to be.

I do think him being portrayed as completely docile to Mr. Satan is more of flanderization than him slowly learning to interact in an adult fashion over the course of the series, though. YMMV.

I do think Roshi has been a bit flanderized, but maybe he will be shown to do other things later on like in the RoF arc, where he fights, and that will solve that. Videl, I don't know -- still reserving judgement here. Not enough scenes with her yet.

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