FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:12 pm

Is there a single dub out there that tries to emulate the voices of the Japanese version?

If there wasn't a single animated version of DB, and I read the manga, I wouldn't visualize the high-pitched voice of a woman while reading Goku's dialogue bubbles. This is why I don't buy the whole "the original is the way the show is MEANT to be." That's up for interpretation of the manga (i.e. source material), and if the original Japanese version had Faulconer's music and a male voice for Goku, while the English dub had Kikuchi replacing that OST and a female actress voicing Goku, people would make the same exact argument, regardless of personal preference.
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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by irreality » Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:23 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:Is there a single dub out there that tries to emulate the voices of the Japanese version?

If there wasn't a single animated version of DB, and I read the manga, I wouldn't visualize the high-pitched voice of a woman while reading Goku's dialogue bubbles. This is why I don't buy the whole "the original is the way the show is MEANT to be." That's up for interpretation of the manga, and if the original Japanese version had Faulconer's music and a male voice for Goku, while the English dub had Kikuchi replacing that OST and a female actress voicing Goku, people would make the same exact argument, regardless of personal preference.
This is what I mean: you are talking about the Funi Dub as an alternate adaptation of the manga, instead of what it really is: an adaptation of the original anime. No dub is an adapation of the manga. The original Japanese anime is what the *anime* was meant to be by Toei: they cast the characters, directed their performances, synched the animation to those performances and edited the content and script to their specifications. If it had been different, it would have been meant to be different. (you are confusing saying "what the show is meant to be" with "the platonic ideal of Goku based on the manga").

I don't think any dubs really emulate Nozawa as adult Goku completely -- but they do tend to use higher pitched/lighter speaking men, not gruff men like Sabat. So in that sense they are using Nozawa as a template. And a lot of Krillin performances are spot on, I think. Most dubs I feel have dub voices that emulate most of the other voice actors, if not perfectly in voices, definitely in performance (even for Goku).

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:08 pm

irreality wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:Is there a single dub out there that tries to emulate the voices of the Japanese version?

If there wasn't a single animated version of DB, and I read the manga, I wouldn't visualize the high-pitched voice of a woman while reading Goku's dialogue bubbles. This is why I don't buy the whole "the original is the way the show is MEANT to be." That's up for interpretation of the manga, and if the original Japanese version had Faulconer's music and a male voice for Goku, while the English dub had Kikuchi replacing that OST and a female actress voicing Goku, people would make the same exact argument, regardless of personal preference.
This is what I mean: you are talking about the Funi Dub as an alternate adaptation of the manga, instead of what it really is: an adaptation of the original anime. No dub is an adapation of the manga. The original Japanese anime is what the *anime* was meant to be by Toei: they cast the characters, directed their performances, synched the animation to those performances and edited the content and script to their specifications. If it had been different, it would have been meant to be different. (you are confusing saying "what the show is meant to be" with "the platonic ideal of Goku based on the manga").

I don't think any dubs really emulate Nozawa as adult Goku completely -- but they do tend to use higher pitched/lighter speaking men, not gruff men like Sabat. So in that sense they are using Nozawa as a template. And a lot of Krillin performances are spot on, I think. Most dubs I feel have dub voices that emulate most of the other voice actors, if not perfectly in voices, definitely in performance (even for Goku).
I don't really get a Nozawa feel from any of the Latin dubs either. Dunno about the other dubs. There are so many. :crazy:

As for everything else... you have a point. lol. When I see any version of the show, I tend to look at it as though it was an alternate adaptation of the manga. Hmm... :think:
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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by irreality » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:11 pm

I'm not arguing any dub is perfect, or that to dub something you need to be perfect. Sometimes dubs do change things, partly because they can't translate thing or voices are never quite the same, or no voice actor will match the original. I'm just thinking of the general philosopy of what people expect from a dub: is it just a translation for convenience, or are you trying to make a new product?

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:36 pm

irreality wrote:I'm not arguing any dub is perfect, or that to dub something you need to be perfect. Sometimes dubs do change things, partly because they can't translate thing or voices are never quite the same, or no voice actor will match the original. I'm just thinking of the general philosopy of what people expect from a dub: is it just a translation for convenience, or are you trying to make a new product?
I'm pretty sure Funi's philosophy was a little of both. They saw potential in the series, but felt it needed to be "modernized" and "refined" a bit to appeal to American kids at the time, so the US did get a new product based on an older one.

The only think that bothers me about the dub (and dubs in general) is changing dialogue and story. Besides that, I like having many versions of DBZ to enjoy.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by DragonHermit » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:44 pm

Didn't want to get offtopic in the other thread about music. But one of the reasons I loved Faulconer on Funi's dub is that he captured the energetic and rage-filled moment much better than original or Kai composer.

1:01:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Zmo4ZhIs4

Vegeta's "That's my Bulma" moment vs. Beerus with Faulconer music. How can anyone say this isn't epic af :clap:

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by Darkprince410 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:44 pm

DragonHermit wrote:Didn't want to get offtopic in the other thread about music. But one of the reasons I loved Faulconer on Funi's dub is that he captured the energetic and rage-filled moment much better than original or Kai composer.

Vegeta's "That's my Bulma" moment vs. Beerus with Faulconer music. How can anyone say this isn't epic af :clap:
In comparison between the actual BoG soundtrack and that, I don't like this fan re-do of the audio at all. Faulconer's tracks just don't compare, and even in the scene you mentioned, it just doesn't come close.

In all likelihood, Funimation would keep Super's music the way it is in the original, but should they not, I really hope they don't go back to Faulconer.

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by DragonHermit » Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:11 pm

FUNI will probably keep it, but imo it needs complete re-doing. There has only been 1 good song in Super so far, which is the song that played after Goku's wound was healed in SSJ God form, and he rebounded. That song has been replayed many times since then (anyone know the name?).

The transformation song was ok too, but as a standalone it's nothing special, it just fit the scene well.

Soundtracks so far to me have been Faulconer > Original Japanese > Kai > Super.
Darkprince410 wrote: I really hope they don't go back to Faulconer.
Never understood why anime fans almost unanimously dismiss Faulconer, unlike mainstream watchers. I think they just hate animes being "Americanized".

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:40 pm

DragonHermit wrote:
Darkprince410 wrote: I really hope they don't go back to Faulconer.
Never understood why anime fans almost unanimously dismiss Faulconer, unlike mainstream watchers. I think they just hate animes being "Americanized".
I think it's more to do with the fact that fans don't want unfitting and mediocre soundtracks. I mean, why do think the opinion of Sumitomo's work for Dragon Ball has been so divided?

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by DragonHermit » Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:24 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: I think it's more to do with the fact that fans don't want unfitting and mediocre soundtracks. I mean, why do think the opinion of Sumitomo's work for Dragon Ball has been so divided?
I don't understand how an unknown, fat, old, white guy composing music in his basement can get hundreds of thousands of fans with mediocre soundtracks...

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by Darkprince410 » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:25 am

DragonHermit wrote:
Darkprince410 wrote: I really hope they don't go back to Faulconer.
Never understood why anime fans almost unanimously dismiss Faulconer, unlike mainstream watchers. I think they just hate animes being "Americanized".
It has nothing to do with it being "Americanized". Outside of maybe one or two tracks, I don't find his work anywhere near as appealing or fitting the scenes they accompany as well as the original score does. Scenes that worked extremely well in silence suddenly had tracks playing in the background, like someone felt that the audience wouldn't get the tone of the scene without music playing.

The majority of all action scenes ended up using the same tracks, and lost any real impact as a result. Even before going to the scene you mentioned (Beerus slapping Bulma and Vegeta attacking him as a result), I guessed exactly what song would be playing for it, which, personally speaking, doesn't speak well to a musical score. A good score should be dynamic and exciting, not something overly repetitive and recycled, which is why the majority of Faulconer's tracks simply bore me.

The only two that I really recall enjoying to any real degree was the main "Ginyu Force" theme and the theme when Goku sacrificed himself to teleport Cell away. There was something about the two that really fit the scenes and the tones of the situation, but most importantly, they were isolated and seldomly used. The rest just became very dull, very quickly.
I don't understand how an unknown, fat, old, white guy composing music in his basement can get hundreds of thousands of fans with mediocre soundtracks...
Fandom doesn't necessarily imply good though. Look at novels like the Twilight series or Fifty Shades of Grey. Millions of fans of those novels, yet are critically panned for being horribly written, with shallow and one-dimensional characters, terrible writing structure, and so on.

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by DragonHermit » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:56 am

I agree that there weren't enough silent moments on the original FUNI version, and that's the only downfall imo. And it's not like the original dub had a million different songs.In fact, my criticism of the original jap version would be that there weren't enough songs. And it got super repetitive.

With regards to other series, those novels and songs use sexualization or pre-established fame to attract fans. Something Faulconer didn't have. We all know sex sells easily.

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by OutlawTorn » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:56 pm

Darkprince410 wrote:
DragonHermit wrote:
Darkprince410 wrote: I really hope they don't go back to Faulconer.
Never understood why anime fans almost unanimously dismiss Faulconer, unlike mainstream watchers. I think they just hate animes being "Americanized".
It has nothing to do with it being "Americanized". Outside of maybe one or two tracks, I don't find his work anywhere near as appealing or fitting the scenes they accompany as well as the original score does.
I agree. I'm not a purist and have no problems with anime being localized, but aside from very select tracks, I really hate the Faulconer score. One aspect I seriously dislike is how whenever a scene cuts to a close-up of a character or a specific character is talking, their specific "theme" MUST be playing. It doesn't matter if the themes don't flow together in the slightest, if a character is on screen, their theme better be playing. I'm going to reference Once Upon a Time here for a moment and if you've seen the show you will recognize Regina/Evil Queen's distinctive theme, perhaps even the most memorable theme on the show, outside of the title screen motif. It doesn't have to be playing on a loop whenever Regina is on screen, it is used sparingly for moments when it counts. Faulconer's score, though likely through FUNimation's editing, has no moderation in this regard and just sounds like a cacophony of noise when the focus should really be on the dialogue.

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by Ssgvegito30 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:25 am

I have a gut feeling that funimation will announce some piece of news regarding fun dub dragon Ball super once the resurrection of f arc is finished broadcasting anybody has the same feeling???
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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by The Patrolman » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:27 pm

Well my wishes may never happen.

1.Replace Doc Morgan and bring back Kyle Herbert. I'm sorry but there is no comparison between the two.

*"It is a secret we have known before Gohan could even form words in his mouth. Through fights with Raditz, Garlic Jr, The Ginyu Force, and even Frieza, We caught Glimpses of the child's Explosive Power. But like an explosion, it always vanished with the moment. It couldn't be controlled..until Now! At last, the beastly power has been harnished. Gohan has Awoken. Now Cell will battle a warrior eleven years in the making, on the Next Dragon Ball Z!"*

Pure awesomeness

2.I hope Chris does do a better performance with his Piccolo.

3.This will NEVER happen but I wouldnt mind if Bruce Faulconer came back.

4.100% Coleen Clinkenbeard free
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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by andrewtuell1991 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:47 pm

The Patrolman wrote:Well my wishes may never happen.

1.Replace Doc Morgan and bring back Kyle Herbert. I'm sorry but there is no comparison between the two.
You're right, there isn't. Doc Morgan sounds like the calm, wise narrator one would expect for cheesy martial arts parody like Dragon Ball, and Kyle Herbert sounds like some hyperactive monster truck rally announcer with verbal diarrhea who forgot to take his ritalin and cold medicine. All the narration of the old Z dub are needlessly wordy and you provided me with one of, if not THE best example.
*"It is a secret we have known before Gohan could even form words in his mouth. Through fights with Raditz, Garlic Jr, The Ginyu Force, and even Freeza, We caught Glimpses of the child's Explosive Power. But like an explosion, it always vanished with the moment. It couldn't be controlled..until Now! At last, the beastly power has been harnished. Gohan has Awoken. Now Cell will battle a warrior eleven years in the making, on the Next Dragon Ball Z!"*

Pure awesomeness
More like over-written trash. Also, Garlic Jr shouldn't even be mentioned as his filler arc was a continuation of a film that couldn't possibly be placed in the timeline without major plot-holes. This lengthy bit of nonsense combined with Gohan's previous, and unneeded, monologue about 16 loving life and feeling it slipping and blah blah blah ruined what was in the original version the best damn moment of the whole series, one of few times Toei got their act together with the animation and the still epic Unmei no Hi to bring the audience a truly unforgettable moment of anime history. IMHO, it's the only time the anime surpassed the manga. Also, the Japanese narration from Joji Yanami in his prime was short, simple, and was all that was needed to comment on the moment.

"At last... At last, has Gohan's fury exceeded its bounds?"
2.I hope Chris does do a better performance with his Piccolo.
Honestly, Piccolo is a role they should've recasted. Sabat's Vegeta has improved leaps and bounds since he stopped imitating Drummond's terrible performance and is damn near perfect now, his Yamucha is much better than his Z performance though slips into the old "surfer dude" voice now and then, but his Piccolo after all this time still feels like "Diet Scott McNeil". Sabat has improved tremendously since the old 1999 Season 3 dub, but he's still no Mel Blanc and has no business juggling that many main characters.
4.100% Coleen Clinkenbeard free
Seeing as how Goku and Gohan won't be kids in Super and Kara Edwards came back for Goten, I doubt it. Not sure about 18 though, but she doesn't have that big a role in Super anyways, so whatever.


As for my own wishes? Just keep up quality of Kai, BoG, and RoF and everything will be fine.

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:58 pm

Make it a gag dub. :P
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by The Patrolman » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:29 am

andrewtuell1991 wrote:
The Patrolman wrote:Well my wishes may never happen.

1.Replace Doc Morgan and bring back Kyle Herbert. I'm sorry but there is no comparison between the two.
You're right, there isn't. Doc Morgan sounds like the calm, wise narrator one would expect for cheesy martial arts parody like Dragon Ball, and Kyle Herbert sounds like some hyperactive monster truck rally announcer with verbal diarrhea who forgot to take his ritalin and cold medicine. All the narration of the old Z dub are needlessly wordy and you provided me with one of, if not THE best example.
*"It is a secret we have known before Gohan could even form words in his mouth. Through fights with Raditz, Garlic Jr, The Ginyu Force, and even Freeza, We caught Glimpses of the child's Explosive Power. But like an explosion, it always vanished with the moment. It couldn't be controlled..until Now! At last, the beastly power has been harnished. Gohan has Awoken. Now Cell will battle a warrior eleven years in the making, on the Next Dragon Ball Z!"*

Pure awesomeness
More like over-written trash. Also, Garlic Jr shouldn't even be mentioned as his filler arc was a continuation of a film that couldn't possibly be placed in the timeline without major plot-holes. This lengthy bit of nonsense combined with Gohan's previous, and unneeded, monologue about 16 loving life and feeling it slipping and blah blah blah ruined what was in the original version the best damn moment of the whole series, one of few times Toei got their act together with the animation and the still epic Unmei no Hi to bring the audience a truly unforgettable moment of anime history. IMHO, it's the only time the anime surpassed the manga. Also, the Japanese narration from Joji Yanami in his prime was short, simple, and was all that was needed to comment on the moment.

"At last... At last, has Gohan's fury exceeded its bounds?"

How the hell is it over written trash? What Joji said was short and simple but they Kyle goes says is the whole experience Gohan has gone through over the years. Dont get me the Jap SSJ2 transformation is beautiful. The way Doc narrated Gohan going SSJ2 felt like he didn't. There was no emotion in it, it was like

"Gohan just transformed.......yeah thats about it."

There a lot the anime did better than the manga
The Last Jedi is a terrible movie

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by andrewtuell1991 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:09 am

The Patrolman wrote:How the hell is it over written trash?
It's needlessly flowery for such a banal fighting show about a brain-damaged, man-child going around beating up monsters, demons, aliens, and robots.

"It is a secret we have known before Gohan could even form words in his mouth."

Who is "we" even referring to? The audience? It couldn't be, because the first the audience, or anyone in the show, saw of Gohan's power was when he was four in the fight against Raditz.

"Through fights with Raditz, Garlic Jr, The Ginyu Force, and even Freeza, We caught Glimpses of the child's Explosive Power. But like an explosion, it always vanished with the moment."

We just had a lengthy filler flashback two episodes back detailing all of this, the point doesn't need to be hammered in any further. Anyone who's seen the show already knows all of this.

"At last, the beastly power has been harnessed. Gohan has Awoken. Now Cell will battle a warrior eleven years in the making, on the Next Dragon Ball Z!"

And yet Cell doesn't fight Gohan "on the Next Dragon Ball Z!" because we have to waste a whole episode killing Cell's blue mini-mes.

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Re: FUNI Super dub - What are your wishes?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:08 am

The Patrolman wrote:
andrewtuell1991 wrote:
The Patrolman wrote:Well my wishes may never happen.

1.Replace Doc Morgan and bring back Kyle Herbert. I'm sorry but there is no comparison between the two.
You're right, there isn't. Doc Morgan sounds like the calm, wise narrator one would expect for cheesy martial arts parody like Dragon Ball, and Kyle Herbert sounds like some hyperactive monster truck rally announcer with verbal diarrhea who forgot to take his ritalin and cold medicine. All the narration of the old Z dub are needlessly wordy and you provided me with one of, if not THE best example.
*"It is a secret we have known before Gohan could even form words in his mouth. Through fights with Raditz, Garlic Jr, The Ginyu Force, and even Freeza, We caught Glimpses of the child's Explosive Power. But like an explosion, it always vanished with the moment. It couldn't be controlled..until Now! At last, the beastly power has been harnished. Gohan has Awoken. Now Cell will battle a warrior eleven years in the making, on the Next Dragon Ball Z!"*

Pure awesomeness
More like over-written trash. Also, Garlic Jr shouldn't even be mentioned as his filler arc was a continuation of a film that couldn't possibly be placed in the timeline without major plot-holes. This lengthy bit of nonsense combined with Gohan's previous, and unneeded, monologue about 16 loving life and feeling it slipping and blah blah blah ruined what was in the original version the best damn moment of the whole series, one of few times Toei got their act together with the animation and the still epic Unmei no Hi to bring the audience a truly unforgettable moment of anime history. IMHO, it's the only time the anime surpassed the manga. Also, the Japanese narration from Joji Yanami in his prime was short, simple, and was all that was needed to comment on the moment.

"At last... At last, has Gohan's fury exceeded its bounds?"

How the hell is it over written trash? What Joji said was short and simple but they Kyle goes says is the whole experience Gohan has gone through over the years. Dont get me the Jap SSJ2 transformation is beautiful. The way Doc narrated Gohan going SSJ2 felt like he didn't. There was no emotion in it, it was like

"Gohan just transformed.......yeah thats about it."

There a lot the anime did better than the manga
STOP! Besides the fact that "Jap" is racist, you're using it wrong.
EDIT: I was wrong you were using it right but point is don't use it.
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