Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(FnF)

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:34 am

I think blue god>red god.
1-it comes later and should logically be stronger
2-official media calls it a form beyond that of ssj god. xenoverse is an example

3-I think ssj1 was the prototype for blue ssj god. Why? because once goku goes into the form of ssj1 he was able to push Beerus to 70% and the fight ramped up! think one of the reasons super is being redone is because Toriyama considers the ssj form after getting god to be blue ssj god and wants it redone. He seams to be going there in the next episode of super.

4. if goku goes to blue ssj god in a episode titled after goku surpassing ssj god I think it's clear that the blue form is stronger.
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:37 am

I usually count Blue as stronger just by virtue of being the newest one. Even Grades 3 and SSJ3 were stronger than everything before them weakness' and all though this does get muddied once you start thinking about Kid Buu and the Rageta incident and how it affects 4s strength in comparison to the God forms.
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:03 am

ekrolo2 wrote:I usually count Blue as stronger just by virtue of being the newest one. Even Grades 3 and SSJ3 were stronger than everything before them weakness' and all though this does get muddied once you start thinking about Kid Buu and the Rageta incident and how it affects 4s strength in comparison to the God forms.
ssj4 is a over 10x multiplier to ssj3,while goku went form being around 4.4% of beers's power to 60% so while the multipliers seam close,GT has a stronger Goku to multiply. SSj4 Goku wins easily over both god forms and even Whis. However both multipliers are unknown exactly how high they are,all we know is SSJ4=ssj3x over 10...but Ssj3 goku's power compared to Beerus is different with all people. Seeing a gohan's rage moments make him double his power level when he fought cell and that was his biggest...I see SSj2 vegeta-4.5% of beerus's power an raging vegeta at 9% since beerus said it's been a while since he HAD TO GO to 10%. meaning raging vegeta is 9%,maybe 9.5 when you think how close power gaps are vs how they look in Z.

Super and BOG say ssj3 Goku>ssj2 vegeta vegeta does better....so maybe they're saying he's better and not stronger because he has ssj3?

ssj4 goku>>>>>whis>beerus>>>>raging vegeta>ssj3 goku ? ssj2 vegeta
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by irreality » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:45 am

dbgtFO wrote:
Speedster wrote:In the movie it was implied that the SSGSS (I.e. blue form) is about as strong as SSG (red form), just the former being the way to reach the SSG level of power without the ritual but on their own.
The original author's intent seems to be exactly how Speedster is describing it, but that seems likely to be ignored in all other media, because we can't have a new transformation without it being better in every way than the former apparently.
The name seems to be imply it's a Super Saiyan God going Super Saiyan, hence it being stronger than SSGod, whereas Toriyama's script just has Goku mention he's a Super Saiyan, but with the power of a Super Saiyan God.
Yeah, that is what I thought. It seems like other explanations are being brought in from video games or other media (where if you have more forms, makes sense to make them stronger or weaker), but the movies themselves just say what you are saying in your last line. It would be good to see what Super has to say about it.

I thought it would be really clever to have red form be stronger than Blue form, but that you can't turn red form without draining all your friends for the batle.

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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:54 am

irreality wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Speedster wrote:In the movie it was implied that the SSGSS (I.e. blue form) is about as strong as SSG (red form), just the former being the way to reach the SSG level of power without the ritual but on their own.
The original author's intent seems to be exactly how Speedster is describing it, but that seems likely to be ignored in all other media, because we can't have a new transformation without it being better in every way than the former apparently.
The name seems to be imply it's a Super Saiyan God going Super Saiyan, hence it being stronger than SSGod, whereas Toriyama's script just has Goku mention he's a Super Saiyan, but with the power of a Super Saiyan God.
Yeah, that is what I thought. It seems like other explanations are being brought in from video games or other media (where if you have more forms, makes sense to make them stronger or weaker), but the movies themselves just say what you are saying in your last line. It would be good to see what Super has to say about it.

I thought it would be really clever to have red form be stronger than Blue form, but that you can't turn red form without draining all your friends for the batle.
I always figured that since Goku was an SSJ upon performing the ritual, he can only fully use his God power as an SSJ once Red God vanishes. This is kind of hinted at in the movie where his base form, while still a lot stronger simply pales in comparison to his performance vs Beerus when he turns SSJ. The hair turning blonde to blue just seems like the two powers melding into one properly after enough practice which Dokkan Battle hints at as well though Super is the big question mark here.
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:21 am

Blackstripe wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:I don't see how that makes sense, as the vast majority of power/damage is inflicted to things far away. So if SSJG Goku punches SSGSSJ RoF Goku or whatever, only a very small amount of that damage would actually be delivered to his body.
It makes perfect sense, though perhaps I didn't explain it very well.

Basically, the power is all there in their respective punches, then, upon striking their opponent, the remnants explode outward in the bizarre wave. What does that mean?

Well, when you use a ki blast or throw a punch in Dragon Ball, they obviously contain enough power to be capable of harming your opponent, yes? Gokuu wasn't throwing punches or blasts at Perfect Cell that were only on the level of Saiyan Saga Vegeta, he was throwing attacks that had the power of his 100% MSSJ form. This means they could destroy the planet easily, but he kept them controlled and focused on their target so that they didn't cause unnecessary collateral damage.

Similarly, the punches of SSG Gokuu and Beerus were focused on delivering damage to their bodies, but the power they released upon meeting each other caused shockwaves that rippled outwards. So, why did they get stronger the farther away they went, then? Because that focus I mentioned above quickly eroded, since the shockwaves were no longer under their control. The shockwaves are a manifestation of their full destructive power untempered by the usual control/focus you see used throughout the series.

Evidence for this is Gokuu canceling out the wave by connecting with Beerus' punch at exactly the right time. He's arresting the momentum of it when he does that, reducing the force of both blows.
But the energy still has to go somewhere. It makes no sense for it to get stronger as it gets farther away (in fact it should do the opposite). But since it does, that kind of means it's not really much more effective than a normal punch at close range.
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:47 pm

Let me clear up something.

Red God (super)>Blue god (Fnf)>Red God (BOG).

If we get Blue god in Super I feel its going to be beastly but right now Red God is strongest because what it is doing in super is ny stance.
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:06 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:Let me clear up sometime

Red God (super)>Blue god (Fnf)>Red God (BOG).

If we get Blue god in Super I feel its going to be beastly but right now Red God is strongest because what it is doing in super is ny stance.
That's IF he's really making Beerus go 100%. We don't know. If beerus is going all out right now like it seams then

Blue SSjgod>red ssjgod>blue ssjgod from rof >red ssj god from BOG.

I honestly think goku evolves to blue ssj god next episode.
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by Blackstripe » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:08 pm

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:I usually count Blue as stronger just by virtue of being the newest one. Even Grades 3 and SSJ3 were stronger than everything before them weakness' and all though this does get muddied once you start thinking about Kid Buu and the Rageta incident and how it affects 4s strength in comparison to the God forms.
ssj4 is a over 10x multiplier to ssj3,while goku went form being around 4.4% of beers's power to 60% so while the multipliers seam close,GT has a stronger Goku to multiply. SSj4 Goku wins easily over both god forms and even Whis. However both multipliers are unknown exactly how high they are,all we know is SSJ4=ssj3x over 10...but Ssj3 goku's power compared to Beerus is different with all people. Seeing a gohan's rage moments make him double his power level when he fought cell and that was his biggest...I see SSj2 vegeta-4.5% of beerus's power an raging vegeta at 9% since beerus said it's been a while since he HAD TO GO to 10%. meaning raging vegeta is 9%,maybe 9.5 when you think how close power gaps are vs how they look in Z.

Super and BOG say ssj3 Goku>ssj2 vegeta vegeta does better....so maybe they're saying he's better and not stronger because he has ssj3?

ssj4 goku>>>>>whis>beerus>>>>raging vegeta>ssj3 goku ? ssj2 vegeta
Would you PLEASE stop stating your theory on SSG multipliers like they're fact? We have no concrete statements on where SSJ3 Gokuu sits relative to Beerus. All we know is that it is a level Gokuu believed he could never reach through training. Meaning, it's beyond any potential gains that just pushing his body the ol' fashion way could gain him.

We also know that Gokuu felt (from just fighting a heavily suppressed Beerus) that Vegetto couldn't win. Since Vegetto is immensely stronger than SSJ3 Gokuu, that shows just how little Beerus was using against him. With Rageto, there seems to be some evidence now suggesting that he tapped into something deeper than just a simple rage boost, allowing him to surpass everyone, even Super Vegetto, and push Beerus to use 10% of his power (albeit he easily beat Vegeta with this amount).

So, this (in my opinion) is how it more than likely is: Whis>Beerus>>SSG Gokuu>>>>Raging Vegeta>Super Vegetto>=SSJ4 Gokuu

As for Blue vs Red?

I think it's obvious that Blue would be stronger, since it's basically Gokuu having mastered his Godly Ki. SSG is not even normally a permanent form, right? SSGSS is the form you take once you've learned to harness that power to the point where it is no longer limited.

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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by Khin » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:22 am

I dont really think theres a difference in Power betwen the Movies and Super so SSGSS is still stronger than SSG.

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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:44 pm

irreality wrote:Anyway. My point would be, any reason Red form can't be stronger than blue form?
SSGSS should be stronger than SSG, since Goku needs to go SSGSS, but doesn't need to go SSG after absorbing its power to his base form according to Toriyama.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:53 pm

Blueper (Super) most likely>Red God (Super)>Blueper>Red God

Mainly cause of the whole universe thing not existing in the films.
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by Kuririn Fan » Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:15 am

Definitely blue.

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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by Sora Saiyan » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:58 am

Blackstripe wrote:
LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:I usually count Blue as stronger just by virtue of being the newest one. Even Grades 3 and SSJ3 were stronger than everything before them weakness' and all though this does get muddied once you start thinking about Kid Buu and the Rageta incident and how it affects 4s strength in comparison to the God forms.
ssj4 is a over 10x multiplier to ssj3,while goku went form being around 4.4% of beers's power to 60% so while the multipliers seam close,GT has a stronger Goku to multiply. SSj4 Goku wins easily over both god forms and even Whis. However both multipliers are unknown exactly how high they are,all we know is SSJ4=ssj3x over 10...but Ssj3 goku's power compared to Beerus is different with all people. Seeing a gohan's rage moments make him double his power level when he fought cell and that was his biggest...I see SSj2 vegeta-4.5% of beerus's power an raging vegeta at 9% since beerus said it's been a while since he HAD TO GO to 10%. meaning raging vegeta is 9%,maybe 9.5 when you think how close power gaps are vs how they look in Z.

Super and BOG say ssj3 Goku>ssj2 vegeta vegeta does better....so maybe they're saying he's better and not stronger because he has ssj3?

ssj4 goku>>>>>whis>beerus>>>>raging vegeta>ssj3 goku ? ssj2 vegeta
Would you PLEASE stop stating your theory on SSG multipliers like they're fact? We have no concrete statements on where SSJ3 Gokuu sits relative to Beerus. All we know is that it is a level Gokuu believed he could never reach through training. Meaning, it's beyond any potential gains that just pushing his body the ol' fashion way could gain him.

We also know that Gokuu felt (from just fighting a heavily suppressed Beerus) that Vegetto couldn't win. Since Vegetto is immensely stronger than SSJ3 Gokuu, that shows just how little Beerus was using against him. With Rageto, there seems to be some evidence now suggesting that he tapped into something deeper than just a simple rage boost, allowing him to surpass everyone, even Super Vegetto, and push Beerus to use 10% of his power (albeit he easily beat Vegeta with this amount).

So, this (in my opinion) is how it more than likely is: Whis>Beerus>>SSG Gokuu>>>>Raging Vegeta>Super Vegetto>=SSJ4 Gokuu

As for Blue vs Red?

I think it's obvious that Blue would be stronger, since it's basically Gokuu having mastered his Godly Ki. SSG is not even normally a permanent form, right? SSGSS is the form you take once you've learned to harness that power to the point where it is no longer limited.
Totally agree with the entirety of the post.

SSJG (Super) is way above SSJGSSJ (RoF) IMO, based on Beerus claiming he's using 100%, and mainly the whole Universal thing. If it is comparing both forms from Super then it is definitely SSJGSSJ which is the most powerful since God power SSJ is equal to SSJG.
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by buutenks » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:48 pm

In movie red god form was close to 70% of beeru's power.So lets say 65%.In ROF whis states that if vegeta and goku teamed up on beerus they could win.basically meaning blue god form is above 65%,proly around 85%+.So while not much stronger but still a difference.

As for who wins between super and movies,obviously super.That fight was most op fight in the history of DBZ and GT.

We know that beerus used 10% of his power and one shotted raging vegeta(and being unaffected by vegeta's galic gun) and goku stated that even fusion couldnt beat suppressed beerus.Now based off those 2 things,i can say that 10% Beerus>>Raging Vegeta>Suppressed Beerus>Vegetto>>>>>>>ssj3 Goku

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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by oreos-splash » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:04 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:Does Super Saiyan God Red seem stronger in Super to anyone then Super Saiyan God Blue did in Fnf?

P.S. I tired to make this in the SUper section and couldn't?

I thought Blue was stronger. But only because Goku sported the spiky hair while red.had base form hair. And i felt in the Frieza movie Goku in base form was already using Godly ki, just no fancy transformation in base like in the previous film
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by Blackstripe » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:39 pm

buutenks wrote:In movie red god form was close to 70% of beeru's power.So lets say 65%.In ROF whis states that if vegeta and goku teamed up on beerus they could win.basically meaning blue god form is above 65%,proly around 85%+.So while not much stronger but still a difference.
I don't think Blueper Saiyan is 85%. Remember, Freeza has to be stronger but still "no match" for Beerus. I put Blueper at 75%, and Freeza anywhere from 80 - 85%. While I believe Gokuu/Vegeta's base forms are as much as 10x weaker than their Blueper Saiyan form (though I'm leaning towards 5x now), I think that Blueper Saiyan should at least be a 2x increase in power, since Gokuu and Vegeta treated it like it was a big power up.

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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:50 pm

I don't think it'd make sense for Blue Super Saiyan God to be weaker than Red Super Saiyan God. Goku wasn't that much weaker after losing the God form because he absorbed the power. If Blue Super Saiyan would only make him as strong as Super Saiyan God, the power-up would be minuscule at best for no reason.
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by Steven Perry » Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:43 am

I honestly got the impression from watching RoF that SSJGSS (Blue version) was a 'watered' down version of SSJG. Goku in DBS/BoG is able to go toe-to-toe with Beerus, yet in RoF Freeza initially overpowers Goku's blue form but is scared shitless of Beerus. Additionally Beerus doesn't seem concerned that Feeza may be more powerful than him. That was my impression from watching RoF. I say that Goku's red form definitely seems stronger, ESPECIALLY in the anime where he exhibits Universe-shattering powers. The blue form certainly doesn't make the Universe crumble, but I shouldn't compare the anime with the movies as the powers seem different. :think:
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Re: Red Super Saiyan God(Super) vs Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Fn

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:22 pm

So, the latest manga chapter of Super confirms that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, now called Super Saiyan Blue, is a form beyond Super Saiyan God, meaning that it's stronger.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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