DB Super retconning EOZ?

[Hellspawn28]

Bra is always been a year younger then Pan.

[Muffin Man]

Why do you guys keep using the term "retcon" for this? The recent movies (and by extension, Super) have already retconned EoZ. A retcon is when you add additional facts to a story that change what you know about a previously shown situation. Originally we were led to assume that Gohan was still Mystic as of EoZ and that Goku was still SSj3. Now we know that Gohan has lost his ability to access his Mystic state and that Goku has achieved SSj God. That's a retcon.


What you guys are suggesting, however, is the possibility of Super outright ignoring EoZ. That's not a retcon, it's just a flat-out contradiction. They wouldn't be changing what we know about EoZ, they would simply be contradicting it. And in doing so, Super would no longer be compatible with the original manga, since EoZ is part of the original manga.

[Hellspawn28]

Who said Goku is still SSj3 at the end of DBZ? He has not transform at all against Uub. Goku said that he does not need SSj to fight Freeza and I assume the same is for Uub.

[pacz360]

Honestly no one knows it's pretty much up to akira to retcon it or not.

[Muffin Man]

Who said Goku is still SSj3 at the end of DBZ? He has not transform at all against Uub. Goku said that he does not need SSj to fight Freeza and I assume the same is for Uub.

Nothing says he's SSj3 at the end of Z. It's just what we automatically assumed because we were never told anything else, but now we have additional information that tells us otherwise. That's my whole point. A retcon adds new information that changes how you interpret a situation, but it doesn't contradict the situation.

[Basaku]

Who said Goku is still SSj3 at the end of DBZ? He has not transform at all against Uub. Goku said that he does not need SSj to fight Freeza and I assume the same is for Uub.

Nothing says he's SSj3 at the end of Z. It's just what we automatically assumed because we were never told anything else, but now we have additional information that tells us otherwise. That's my whole point. A retcon adds new information that changes how you interpret a situation, but it doesn't contradict the situation.

It's the original defition of a retcon indeed but honestly, nowadays 99% of people use the term when talking about franchises/properties removing sections of its lore or established events to replace it with something new. Can't really help it that the definition has essentially changed. Languages evolve afterall

[apex_pretador]

Not yet, but if Bra doesn't get born fast then it will fuck up EOZ.

But base goku has become infinitely stronger than kid buu, and he's still not sure if he can beat fat buu at the tournament.
He also wants to fight UUB, who's weaker than kid buu.

Goku was never worried about Fat Boo

Spoiler:

[Psykomatik]

In the french translation of the manga, it said "But we can't let you win if we lost against someone who isn't Buu" and Satan reply "Hahaha i doubt there is someone who can defeat you"

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku was never worried about Fat Boo

Spoiler:

And how does that show Goku being worried that he will lose against Fat Boo? He just says that Oob may win the tournament.

[Corey LSSJ Gamer]

Toriyama dosent plan things in advance so it is just a mistake

[Corey LSSJ Gamer]

So apparently Pan, who is 4 at the end of Z, now exists in the Super series which is maybe a year after Boo's defeat. So I guess we can assume that end of Z will not be canon to the Super timeline right?

I just read about Pan's birth year according to the end of Z and it is age 779 the year that Ressurection F and the corresponding Dragon Ball super arc happen, and the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai happens on May 7 Age 784 5 years later and Pan was born in June, so she was 4 its not a plothole Pan is a cute baby

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I just read about Pan's birth year according to the end of Z and it is age 779 the year that Ressurection F and the corresponding Dragon Ball super arc happen, and the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai happens on May 7 Age 784 5 years later and Pan was born in June, so she was 4 its not a plothole :thumbu:

It's possible that could be the "official" placement in future timelines or whatever, but it would cause contradictions with the statements in Super's episodes about time passing (not that plenty of other material isn't contradictory anyway). Pan's birthday can really only be a few days after May 7th for things to work without a hitch though.

[Corey LSSJ Gamer]

I just read about Pan's birth year according to the end of Z and it is age 779 the year that Ressurection F and the corresponding Dragon Ball super arc happen, and the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai happens on May 7 Age 784 5 years later and Pan was born in June, so she was 4 its not a plothole :thumbu:

It's possible that could be the "official" placement in future timelines or whatever, but it would cause contradictions with the statements in Super's episodes about time passing (not that plenty of other material isn't contradictory anyway). Pan's birthday can really only be a few days after May 7th for things to work without a hitch though.

They will probably make a better timeline than the one on http://db30th.com/into/into_nenpyo.html

[Redgohan147]

I'm less concerned with Super's timeline contradicting the Epilogue, and more that it renders the Epilogue less meaningful. Goku has these teachers that are gods. Multiple universes worth of new challengers, and he settles with the reincarnation of a lesser foe at this point? That's the main reason Goku even bothered to take up Uub as a student. He wanted to ensure a worthy adversary because Buu gave him a heck of a fight, and was at the time, his strongest opponent. Here comes Beerus, and everyone else. Who needs Uub? Perhaps they'll explain why Goku still insist on training Uub, and whatever happens to Whis and Beerus, but until then, I'm still scratching my head at this.

[MCDaveG]

I'm less concerned with Super's timeline contradicting the Epilogue, and more that it renders the Epilogue less meaningful. Goku has these teachers that are gods. Multiple universes worth of new challengers, and he settles with the reincarnation of a lesser foe at this point? That's the main reason Goku even bothered to take up Uub as a student. He wanted to ensure a worthy adversary because Buu gave him a heck of a fight, and was at the time, his strongest opponent. Here comes Beerus, and everyone else. Who needs Uub? Perhaps they'll explain why Goku still insist on training Uub, and whatever happens to Whis and Beerus, but until then, I'm still scratching my head at this.

What if Uub has the same unlimited energy as Buu?
It was stated, that what was dangerous about Buu wasn't his strength, as he was less powerfull than his absorbing forms,
but that his energy and stamina are neverending and he is still in prime no matter what. I am missing the last two vizbigs and don't remember the episodes right now.
Was it even stated in the show in any of the formats? Thanks

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'm less concerned with Super's timeline contradicting the Epilogue, and more that it renders the Epilogue less meaningful. Goku has these teachers that are gods. Multiple universes worth of new challengers, and he settles with the reincarnation of a lesser foe at this point? That's the main reason Goku even bothered to take up Uub as a student. He wanted to ensure a worthy adversary because Buu gave him a heck of a fight, and was at the time, his strongest opponent. Here comes Beerus, and everyone else. Who needs Uub? Perhaps they'll explain why Goku still insist on training Uub, and whatever happens to Whis and Beerus, but until then, I'm still scratching my head at this.

Look at Freeza. He was one of the strongest beings in the universe when they first fought him, but he is literally trash compared to God Goku. Then look what happened when he trained for the first time. Imagine the potential that Oob has after training.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm less concerned with Super's timeline contradicting the Epilogue, and more that it renders the Epilogue less meaningful. Goku has these teachers that are gods. Multiple universes worth of new challengers, and he settles with the reincarnation of a lesser foe at this point? That's the main reason Goku even bothered to take up Uub as a student. He wanted to ensure a worthy adversary because Buu gave him a heck of a fight, and was at the time, his strongest opponent. Here comes Beerus, and everyone else. Who needs Uub? Perhaps they'll explain why Goku still insist on training Uub, and whatever happens to Whis and Beerus, but until then, I'm still scratching my head at this.

Look at Freeza. He was one of the strongest beings in the universe when they first fought him, but he is literally trash compared to God Goku. Then look what happened when he trained for the first time. Imagine the potential that Oob has after training.

Exactly. Oob is blank slate. His potential could be infinite for all we know.

[Basaku]

I'm less concerned with Super's timeline contradicting the Epilogue, and more that it renders the Epilogue less meaningful. Goku has these teachers that are gods. Multiple universes worth of new challengers, and he settles with the reincarnation of a lesser foe at this point? That's the main reason Goku even bothered to take up Uub as a student. He wanted to ensure a worthy adversary because Buu gave him a heck of a fight, and was at the time, his strongest opponent. Here comes Beerus, and everyone else. Who needs Uub? Perhaps they'll explain why Goku still insist on training Uub, and whatever happens to Whis and Beerus, but until then, I'm still scratching my head at this.

Look at Freeza. He was one of the strongest beings in the universe when they first fought him, but he is literally trash compared to God Goku. Then look what happened when he trained for the first time. Imagine the potential that Oob has after training.

Exactly. Oob is blank slate. His potential could be infinite for all we know.

It doesn't change that an additional 50/100/200 episodes between the conclusion of Buu arc and EOZ render Uub's impact/importance rather negatively. It doesn't really flow naturally anymore. I thought it was a brilliant move to include Buu in the tournament to keep his strenght/potential in the spotlight, but now with failed test he's back to comic relief status.

[Lord Beerus]

It doesn't change that an additional 50/100/200 episodes between the conclusion of Buu arc and EOZ render Uub's impact/importance rather negatively. It doesn't really flow naturally anymore. I thought it was a brilliant move to include Buu in the tournament to keep his strenght/potential in the spotlight, but now with failed test he's back to comic relief status.

To be fair, Oob doesn't really have that great of an impact in EOZ. He's just introduced as a human that Goku saw as immensely strong and has the potential to become stronger. The true impact of the character lies in how strong he gets through Goku's training and what his characterisation may be.

[Skar]

It doesn't change that an additional 50/100/200 episodes between the conclusion of Buu arc and EOZ render Uub's impact/importance rather negatively. It doesn't really flow naturally anymore. I thought it was a brilliant move to include Buu in the tournament to keep his strenght/potential in the spotlight, but now with failed test he's back to comic relief status.

I kinda felt the same way after BoG. Originally Goku wasn't able to defeat Kid Buu on his own so he asked King Yemma to reincarnate Uub so that he could have a proper rematch against Buu without any consequences. During those ten years of peace, Goku was patiently waiting for the day he can meet Uub and challenge him again. Manga never implied that Goku faced multiple opponents much stronger than Buu since that time or that he was expecting Uub to get trillions of times stronger than the guy he was reincarnated from. They could still go with the excuse that Uub has unfathomable potential to make it fit easier but it doesn't feel the same as when he was Goku's main focus since the Buu saga ended.

I think the fact that Goku is still excited to meet Uub implies that he'll likely surpass Beerus, Whis, and every other stronger opponent introduced before there's a timeskip. What I don't understand though is that if Vegeta is almost equal to Goku then what does he need with Uub? Throughout DBZ, Vegeta was usually one step behind Goku. Super is really the first time Vegeta was Goku's constant rival and kept up with him.
Saiyan saga: Vegeta lost the beam struggle and had no choice but to transform into an Oozaru.
Freeza saga: By the time Goku landed on Namek, he was much stronger than Vegeta and one-shots the opponent that Vegeta stood no chance against. Vegeta gets two Zenkais but still gets killed by Freeza while Goku is the one to become the SSJ.
Cell saga: Vegeta catches up to Goku and becomes a SSJ but it's short-lived when he loses to #18. He spends a year in the HTC and surpasses Goku finally but loses to Perfect Cell. Goku spends one year and surpasses Vegeta by so much that even with an extra year Vegeta can't catch up.
Buu saga: Vegeta needed Babidi's magic to equal SSJ2 Goku and later finds out Goku was holding back SSJ3. Vegeta comes to terms with the fact that Goku is #1.

After the Buu saga, I always assumed that Vegeta just retired and became a family man. Maybe he wasn't able to become a SSJ3 so he just gave up and only trained occasionally to maintain his power. We know the half-Saiyans had no interest in training so Goku couldn't rely on them for a challenge either. At least to me it made sense that Goku was looking forward to facing Uub because he had no one else on his level and interested. Now that Vegeta is keeping up with Goku in Super then what is Uub going to offer Goku that Vegeta can't? Is Super going to end with Vegeta being once again one step behind like stuck at SSJ2Blue while Goku is a SSJ3Blue? I don't know but I can't see Vegeta from Super letting Goku go off to train with a new opponent unless Vegeta feels he can no longer keep up with Goku.