Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by Araki » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:12 am

Neon Z wrote:If we go by Toriyama's own words, it's more about characters like Bulma and Kuririn looking too old there. And, really, if you look at the more recent material, I don't see anything throwing that into question. Goten and Trunks? The same Goten and Trunks that didn't appear in RoF at all and even in Super Goten has only gotten one or two lines per episode ever since the RoF set up stuff started, while Trunks completely disappeared? Whoever is handling the marketing is clearly interested in pushing Goten and Trunks, but that doesn't seem to be Toriyama's goal at all, and Toei nowadays seems to bow down to him.
I didn't think of that before, but it's true - as much as we like to think everyone involved would want to push Goten and Trunks for marketing reasons, it doesn't seem to be the case. Hell, Trunks was pretty much gone by the end of the BoG arc, he barely got any lines after Goku vs Beerus started. Kuririn is getting a lot more attention.
So yeah, that wouldn't hold them back.

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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:44 pm

If Star Wars can go beyond Return of Jedi then why can't Dragon Bal go beyond end of DBZl? I mean Star Wars had stories set after Return of Jedi long before The Force Awaken was released.
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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:27 am

precita wrote:I definitely want to see an arc taking place after DBZ. I want teenage Trunks and Goten, I want to see Pan and Uub do things.
They really should have been at least pre-teens in Super along with Dende. If Toei can't even get that straight, I highly doubt they'd improve anything even if they wanted it.
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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:21 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:If Star Wars can go beyond Return of Jedi then why can't Dragon Bal go beyond end of DBZl? I mean Star Wars had stories set after Return of Jedi long before The Force Awaken was released.
Exactly. Although I wonder what would happen if Toiryama did a George Lucas and sold it off to diseny XD...wait can he do that? Does he own dragonball or did he sell it to toei?
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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:28 am

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:If Star Wars can go beyond Return of Jedi then why can't Dragon Bal go beyond end of DBZl? I mean Star Wars had stories set after Return of Jedi long before The Force Awaken was released.
Exactly. Although I wonder what would happen if Toiryama did a George Lucas and sold it off to diseny XD...wait can he do that? Does he own dragonball or did he sell it to toei?
Shueisha technically own the licensing rights of Dragon Ball as a whole. If any official commercial-made Dragon Ball product is to be created, it's only gonna happen with their approval.

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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:31 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:If Star Wars can go beyond Return of Jedi then why can't Dragon Bal go beyond end of DBZl? I mean Star Wars had stories set after Return of Jedi long before The Force Awaken was released.
Exactly. Although I wonder what would happen if Toiryama did a George Lucas and sold it off to diseny XD...wait can he do that? Does he own dragonball or did he sell it to toei?
Shueisha technically own the licensing rights of Dragon Ball as a whole. If any official commercial-made Dragon Ball product is to be created, it's only gonna happen with their approval.

But do they own it own it? Like how George Lucas owned star wars? Because I see a lot of different stances by people but never any evidence. Some stuff I see is complete malarkey though (like when kids say GT was made by funimation -_- )
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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:46 am

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Shueisha technically own the licensing rights of Dragon Ball as a whole. If any official commercial-made Dragon Ball product is to be created, it's only gonna happen with their approval.

But do they own it own it? Like how George Lucas owned star wars? Because I see a lot of different stances by people but never any evidence. Some stuff I see is complete malarkey though (like when kids say GT was made by funimation -_- )
Yep. Shueisha pretty much own Dragon Ball, lock, stock and barrel. It's their legal property.

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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:15 pm

Toriyama could write a post-Z era sequel if they offer him a big enough pay check ;).
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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:45 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:Toriyama could write a post-Z era sequel if they offer him a big enough pay check ;).
Funny thing about that is many years ago, I think it was around 2007-2008, Toei and Bandai offered Toriyama a truckload of money to produce a new Dragon Ball series, and Toriyama basically said "Hell no". As result of Toriyama declining to be involved in a new Dragon Ball series, Toei and Bandai decided to what in their minds would be the next best thing and re-release and re-broadcast the original DBZ anime in HD and pass it off as new show. The project would be later known as Dragon Ball Kai. And the rest is history.

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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:16 pm

That was like in 2008. Toriyama has not involved with the series again like he is now. If Toei and Toriyama can do ideas for a post-Z era setting then I say he should go for it.
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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:35 pm

Shueisha Should get someone to replace Toriyama IMO.
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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by Cetra » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:58 pm

I know others own Dragon Ball as well but is Dragon Ball no legal property of Toriyama-san at all anymore? Like x% of the brand?
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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:40 pm

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:Shueisha Should get someone to replace Toriyama IMO.
Um... why?

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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:10 pm

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:Shueisha Should get someone to replace Toriyama IMO.
Now that he's enjoying working in this series again, that would be stupid.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:15 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:Shueisha Should get someone to replace Toriyama IMO.
Um... why?

Because I want fresh blood who would respect the franchise more, I don't care for Toriyama's new god shit personally.
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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by DBZ_Lee » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:28 pm

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:Shueisha Should get someone to replace Toriyama IMO.
Please no. We all saw what happened when Toriyama Sensei wasn't involved in writing Dragon Ball.... GT. And the result of that was disastrous for Toei and Shueisha, and as we all know, due to the rapid drop in ratings, the show was bought to a premature end, and ever since has struggled to establish itself as a worthy addition to the Series.

Also, going past EoZ would pretty much retcon GT in a way, even though it is only a "side story" (to quote Toriyama Sensei when asked about it) the appeal of the scenario was that it took place 5 years after DBZ, and this made it somewhat believable in a way to many fans who do still view it as canon, in spite of Toriyama Sensei's comments.
So, Super going into that timeline would not only cause a mess story wise, but could hurt financially - GT is a product that Toei still market to sell, not just as a series, but also merchandise wise and with Dragon Ball Heroes, which features a huge amount of GT content, to retcon it, could harm how it is perceived.

The EoZ (in my opinion) is an epilogue, which is intended to definitively finish the entire Story off. And the way it ended, along with the age of the majority of the characters, was done completely intentionally so that there would be little to no chance of continuing.
If they had retconned the EoZ (and they did kind of have the opportunity to do so when Kai was drawing to a close by ending immediately after Buu's defeat and not showing the timeskip epilogue) so it wouldn't have taken place in the anime verse, then it could have continued with no "end in sight" so to speak.

Super can, and will still evolve, they most likely will keep the Story going as long as Toriyama Sensei is happy to continue providing Story drafts & character designs - which he seems to really enjoy doing, and provided that the ratings stay consistent and the merchandise figures are good, it isn't in Toei's best interests to stop production.
They don't have to keep advancing the timeline, One Piece doesn't work like that, no dates are really mentioned, other than the timeskip post Marineford.

These 5 years they are working within can last as long as they want them to. I'm looking forward to seeing Bulla come into it, and her interactions with Vegeta :D

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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:33 pm

How do you know Toriyama is happy? Also Gt was amazing, I want new blood personally. I'll try to enjoy super the best I can but it just doesn't feel like it's official,feels like a bad fan fiction. The animation the writing the action and whole show feels disappointing.
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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by precita » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:24 am

If Toriyama steps down again the series should end once more. I don't think we need to see more GT, and the stories from the videogames are very sub par besides a few.

Do people really want to see stuff like SSJ3 Future Trunks, SSJ4 Broly, SSJ4 Gohan, and all that other stuff become canon? God no. The videogame stories are a perfect example of what would be nothing more than awful power ups and transformations handed out to every character. That 17 and 18 fusion character is so god awful I laughed when I saw the video.

Dragonball isn't a franchise that needs new stories forever. It ended back in 1995/1996, and didn't have new material for a decade. It can end again.

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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:02 pm

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:Shueisha Should get someone to replace Toriyama IMO.
Um... why?

Because I want fresh blood who would respect the franchise more, I don't care for Toriyama's new god shit personally.
If that means we are getting some Broly shit, then i´d prefer Toriyama x10 more than anyone else.
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Re: Will/should Dragon Ball Super evolve?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:10 pm

DBZ_Lee wrote:
Also, going past EoZ would pretty much retcon GT in a way, even though it is only a "side story" (to quote Toriyama Sensei when asked about it) the appeal of the scenario was that it took place 5 years after DBZ, and this made it somewhat believable in a way to many fans who do still view it as canon, in spite of Toriyama Sensei's comments.
So, Super going into that timeline would not only cause a mess story wise, but could hurt financially - GT is a product that Toei still market to sell, not just as a series, but also merchandise wise and with Dragon Ball Heroes, which features a huge amount of GT content, to retcon it, could harm how it is perceived.
I don't get why people say that? You can still do a sequel that can retcon GT set after DBZ and still make GT stuff. I mean Star Wars is finally doing a movie set after Return of the Jedi despite the fact that Star Wars had sequels written after Return of Jedi long before Force Awakens. Star Wars: The New Jedi Order - Vector Prime was written as a sequel to Return of Jedi like 15-16 years before Force Awakens and yet the upcoming Star Wars sequels are going to ignore and retcon every EU sequel out there. If they do have a Toriyama sequel to DBZ, GT is still here to stay. It's not like it's going to be erase off the face of the Earth.
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