Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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jelleline89
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by jelleline89 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:03 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
jelleline89 wrote:Get a grip on reality.
As noted, this is not an appropriate way to talk with other members. You have perfectly fine things to say, but if you're not willing to say them in an appropriate manner, we're not willing to have you as a community member.

We take this very seriously. Ain't nobody got time for that crap. Account strikes add up to temporary/permanent bans, which revoke access to the entirety of the website. Less B.S., more time for us all to have fun and work on cool things. You already have two account strikes. Take a step back and think about this, please.
Nothing I said was inappropriate. I was quite calm with my response. Not to mention, a message like this is better suited to a PM. Suggesting someone "get a grip on reality" is far from the worst thing I've seen posted here.

There is no rule that says I can't edit images. Ajay holds no rights to those images. If I really wanted to, I could remove the watermarks and not break any rules. It's not his original work, it's Toei Animation's. All he did was put text on the image, hardly worthy of watermarking.

When you're ready to actually point out the rules I broke with that earlier post, let me know. If you care about freedom of speech as much as you seem to, you should be more aware of what is being said by both parties.

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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by irreality » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:58 am

The compilation and research is his original work -- him taking screen caps for a research project like this falls under fair use for free distribution. You taking out the watermarks and claiming the work is your own might not be illegal, but it is extremely assholish and wrong, and it *is* plagiarism. And further saying "just taking screen caps is not work" negates the fact that he probably spent hours looking through the source material and looking for the keyframes that represented every animator.

And even if his screen cap took 5 seconds, so what? He can put all the watermarks he cares to -- there is no minimum bar for watermarking your work. You want that same screen cap sans watermarks, go take it yourself, instead of implying because you don't value his research, you are thus entitled to take it without credit.

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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by Ajay » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:36 am

jelleline89 wrote:When you're ready to actually point out the rules I broke with that earlier post, let me know. If you care about freedom of speech as much as you seem to, you should be more aware of what is being said by both parties.
Describing things as "pretentious and plain stupid" and telling someone to "get a grip on reality" is exactly why I took issue with what you posted, and precisely why there was moderator intervention. I really don't mind if someone wants to call me out on watermarking some images, but if that's going to happen, I expect some tact. There was nothing to your post that pertained to the point of the thread, nothing that acknowledged the work that went into gathering all of these images, and nothing that showed you had any interest in being polite. You threw insults around over barely legible words on some images... Just think about that for a second. Had you contributed to the thread, and politely made your point as a side note, there would be no issue. "Hey, I like x and y about these animators, but I do think the watermarking is kinda futile given the clone stamp exists!" Just fine. "This is pretentious and plain stupid. Get a grip on reality". Not okay.

Anyway, with that swept under the rug, I really hope the conversation can actually carry on on-topic.
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by jelleline89 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:07 am

Ajay wrote:
jelleline89 wrote:When you're ready to actually point out the rules I broke with that earlier post, let me know. If you care about freedom of speech as much as you seem to, you should be more aware of what is being said by both parties.
Describing things as "pretentious and plain stupid" and telling someone to "get a grip on reality" is exactly why I took issue with what you posted, and precisely why there was moderator intervention. I really don't mind if someone wants to call me out on watermarking some images, but if that's going to happen, I expect some tact. There was nothing to your post that pertained to the point of the thread, nothing that acknowledged the work that went into gathering all of these images, and nothing that showed you had any interest in being polite. You threw insults around over barely legible words on some images... Just think about that for a second. Had you contributed to the thread, and politely made your point as a side note, there would be no issue. "Hey, I like x and y about these animators, but I do think the watermarking is kinda futile given the clone stamp exists!" Just fine. "This is pretentious and plain stupid. Get a grip on reality". Not okay.

Anyway, with that swept under the rug, I really hope the conversation can actually carry on on-topic.
For sure, let's move on. I actually did get in touch with who I assume is the thief and he's rather interested in me doing a version of your pictures without watermarks. Since there is nothing illegal or against the rules about removing the watermarks, I'm actually going to go ahead and do it. Since I know we both use the same sharing site to "access" HD Super, wouldn't take long for me to get the materials. Expect a few "revised" images this weekend. And even if they get removed, heck, I can just email these to the guy now.

Keep doing what you want and I'll do what I want. Freedom of speech, am I right?

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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:35 am

I like Yamamuro the best episode 13 did look awesome. Close second is Tate episode 5 there was bits of good stuff in that mess and his episodes since have been great. I also like Toma too them thick black lines I would like for him to do a full on action episode. Yashima is easily my least favourite his faces look so weird.

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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by TripleRach » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:38 pm

jelleline89 wrote:When you're ready to actually point out the rules I broke with that earlier post, let me know. If you care about freedom of speech as much as you seem to, you should be more aware of what is being said by both parties.
Calmness and rudeness are not mutually exclusive. It's incredibly possible to be disrespectful to someone without shouting, cursing, or any other theatrics. If you can't understand what was rude about what you said the first time, then I don't know what to tell you. Multiple people feel otherwise.
jelleline89 wrote:For sure, let's move on. I actually did get in touch with who I assume is the thief and he's rather interested in me doing a version of your pictures without watermarks. Since there is nothing illegal or against the rules about removing the watermarks, I'm actually going to go ahead and do it. Since I know we both use the same sharing site to "access" HD Super, wouldn't take long for me to get the materials. Expect a few "revised" images this weekend. And even if they get removed, heck, I can just email these to the guy now.

Keep doing what you want and I'll do what I want. Freedom of speech, am I right?
If you don't like the watermarks, that's fine. But you don't need to hammer that opinion into the ground. This is an extreme reaction that adds nothing to the thread. At this point you're just being vindictive and petty. And at a bare minimum it's simply off-topic.

I don't know what the deal is with all this "freedom of speech" talk either. In situations where it is truly guaranteed, it doesn't mean there are no consequences for the things you say.
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by Wezenheim » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:24 pm

jelleline89 wrote:
Ajay wrote:
jelleline89 wrote:When you're ready to actually point out the rules I broke with that earlier post, let me know. If you care about freedom of speech as much as you seem to, you should be more aware of what is being said by both parties.
Describing things as "pretentious and plain stupid" and telling someone to "get a grip on reality" is exactly why I took issue with what you posted, and precisely why there was moderator intervention. I really don't mind if someone wants to call me out on watermarking some images, but if that's going to happen, I expect some tact. There was nothing to your post that pertained to the point of the thread, nothing that acknowledged the work that went into gathering all of these images, and nothing that showed you had any interest in being polite. You threw insults around over barely legible words on some images... Just think about that for a second. Had you contributed to the thread, and politely made your point as a side note, there would be no issue. "Hey, I like x and y about these animators, but I do think the watermarking is kinda futile given the clone stamp exists!" Just fine. "This is pretentious and plain stupid. Get a grip on reality". Not okay.

Anyway, with that swept under the rug, I really hope the conversation can actually carry on on-topic.
For sure, let's move on. I actually did get in touch with who I assume is the thief and he's rather interested in me doing a version of your pictures without watermarks. Since there is nothing illegal or against the rules about removing the watermarks, I'm actually going to go ahead and do it. Since I know we both use the same sharing site to "access" HD Super, wouldn't take long for me to get the materials. Expect a few "revised" images this weekend. And even if they get removed, heck, I can just email these to the guy now.

Keep doing what you want and I'll do what I want. Freedom of speech, am I right?
Yeesh man, bad day? Freedom of speech does not entitle you to be rude, especially when you are a part of an online community that has its own guidelines. There was nothing wrong with simply pointing out the futility of the watermarks, but adding "get a grip on reality" because you have anonymity? I'm sure you do have meaningful things to contribute, but please avoid stuff like this in the future. As TripleRach said, it just makes you look petty.

Back to the actual post: Ajay, good work on the updated pictures. Tate, Iseki, and Yamamuro still feature my favorite art styles. Does anyone know if Iseki will return? I hope he does.

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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by HybridSaiyan » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:02 am

shuichi iseki does the best SSJ Goku with this new art-style. Really looks good. yoshitaka yashima's SSJ Goku on the other hand looks so horrible lol

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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by Ajay » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:28 pm

Updated with Episode #21.
Animation supervisors
Manabe Shuuichiro Koyama Kazuhiro Oka Tatsuya

Key animators
Usuda Yoshio Tsukuma Takenori Ogata Daisuke Mizuno Yoshiaki Nii Hirotaka Yamazaki Ai Sawada Hironori Kubo Mitsuteru Hong Beom-seok Oka Tatsuya Maruyama Hirokatsu Koremoto Akira Jang So-wi Studio Graffiti Art Base Ban Seigasha Net Animation Nakamura Production Changzhou DouDou

Source.

Interestingly, Seigasha worked on that episode. That's pretty cool. Despite some pretty inconsistent drawings, there were a couple of interesting moments throughout the episode.I really enjoyed the Turtle Hermit's Kamehameha.
Last edited by Ajay on Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:31 pm

It's worth adding that all of the good animators who worked on the Seigasha episodes of the first three series no longer work at Seigasha, but the name is nice to have for legacy purposes.
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by Ajay » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:32 pm

JulieYBM wrote:It's worth adding that all of the good animators who worked on the Seigasha episodes of the first three series no longer work at Seigasha, but the name is nice to have for legacy purposes.
Yeah, absolutely. Though it's a shame; the Seigasha episodes from Z were always stand-outs to me.
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 20) [Update 1]

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:35 pm

Ajay wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:It's worth adding that all of the good animators who worked on the Seigasha episodes of the first three series no longer work at Seigasha, but the name is nice to have for legacy purposes.
Yeah, absolutely. Though it's a shame; the Seigasha episodes from Z were always stand-outs to me.
And humorously enough, two of the big four are regular animation supervisors for Dragon Ball Super: Tate Naoki and Shimanuki Masahiro. The Seigasha spirit still lives on, even if it's split up and one of the parts is nowhere near a good animator any more...
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 21) [Update 2]

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:07 pm

Ajay wrote:Updated with Episode #21.
Tagoma's look in there looks like me, when my Boss is around. :lol:
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 21) [Update 2]

Post by Big Momma » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:29 am

Just dropping in to say that this is an awesome thread. Thanks, Ajay. :thumbup:
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 21) [Update 2]

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:00 pm

First off,really good work. Secondly mashiro seams to do best in the galleries,but not in the ones at the top with sections for individual characters. I just wish toei had a better usage of colors. These colors are to glossy.
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 21) [Update 2]

Post by Blade » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:59 pm

I've been really slow to take in all of the work you've done here, Ajay, but this an excellent thread. You're a real credit to the community for doing this.

Just a quick comment regarding Episodes 19 - 21, but I'm finding it really odd how Toei are reusing assets such as backgrounds, CG models (Freeza's spaceship, the 1000 Freeza soldiers etc), but they're insisting on re-drawing and re-animating frames - even when they're using identical, or heavily derived storyboards from the film.

Whilst it feels a little cheap given that they took a different route all-together for the Battle of Gods adaptation, the time that it has saved in episode planning seems to have been reapportioned towards the animation side of things, resulting in a visible up-turn in quality.

I guess it's another vindication of the 'time and planning over budget' argument.
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 21) [Update 2]

Post by BluePiccolo » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:31 pm

My favorite two would definitely have to be Osamu Ishikawa and Shūichi Iseki, and I'd lean a bit more toward Iseki.
Just something about the right proportions and the thins noses finally.
Last edited by BluePiccolo on Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 21) [Update 2]

Post by raulvalente » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:59 pm

My favorite would be Shūichi Iseki, I hope he works on more episodes :thumbup:

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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 21) [Update 2]

Post by Ajay » Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:34 pm

Updated with Episode #22:
Animation Supervisor
Yoshitaka Yashima

Key Animators
Yashima Yoshitaka Mura Shuntaro Tsuji Miyako Tezuka Emi Aizu Satsuki TAP office DCI

I really enjoyed this episode. I'm constantly surprised by what Yashima-led episodes manage to pull off. Of course, it's mainly down to what key animators he has at his disposal, but considering people were calling him the Uchiyama of Super, it's kinda nice to see episodes like this pop up.

The only thing that bugged me was this one cut that was straight out of One Piece.
Last edited by Ajay on Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Animation Comparisons - (Eps 1 - 22) [Update 3]

Post by kinisking » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:30 pm

Can we have a gohan comparison?
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