Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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MrWalnut4
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by MrWalnut4 » Tue May 17, 2016 5:11 pm

Ajay wrote:
Wezenheim wrote: That's true also. Maybe it isn't Karasawa or Takahashi! It might be too soon for the animator responsible (Inaba maybe?), but Goku in that cut reminds me of a drawing that was asked about a few pages ago:
Huh, good eye. That's interesting.

Man, it's just so hard to tell when they adhere to Yamamuro's models so strictly and we don't have a clear indicator of how things move.

Either way, looks like Karasawa's going three for three with this upcoming episode. The guy cannot do any wrong.
Each time his name gets attached to an episode it's been a good one. It's nice having some fresh blood in the series contributing talent in what is otherwise sorely lacking (with some exceptions like Tate and Shimanuki). One can only wonder what the series would be like if Yamamuro was replaced by someone like him or Inaba.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #42]

Post by A Man named RJ » Tue May 17, 2016 5:32 pm

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:

:lol: Fusion reborn digitally processed? Lol what? XD You're trolling right?
everything that was said, and that's the snippet you decided to laugh at? no response to the rest?

Even funnier, you think a movie from 1995 didn't have digital influence at all in it's production?
Hell movies from the 80's had it in there to some degree.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #42]

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Tue May 17, 2016 5:44 pm

A Man named RJ wrote:
LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:

:lol: Fusion reborn digitally processed? Lol what? XD You're trolling right?
everything that was said, and that's the snippet you decided to laugh at? no response to the rest?

Even funnier, you think a movie from 1995 didn't have digital influence at all in it's production?
Hell movies from the 80's had it in there to some degree.
The only reason I can think of why he keeps bringing up CGI/Digital animation being present in DBSuper and not in DBZ era must be because he must be having the fallacy that "shiny colors"=CGI/Digital.
Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by Sodhi » Tue May 17, 2016 10:38 pm

That goku shot from the preview reminded me a lot of this from #37
https://a.pomf.cat/vocbnx.webm
https://a.pomf.cat/qbjsax.webm

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by Wezenheim » Wed May 18, 2016 12:19 am

MrWalnut4 wrote:Each time his name gets attached to an episode it's been a good one. It's nice having some fresh blood in the series contributing talent in what is otherwise sorely lacking (with some exceptions like Tate and Shimanuki). One can only wonder what the series would be like if Yamamuro was replaced by someone like him or Inaba.
The thing I find funny is that Karasawa doesn't stray that much from Yamamuro's designs, and yet he finds a way to make the characters look so much more fun and pleasant. Lots of good expressions from him as well. He's got a lot of talent, and Super is apparently his first supervising role! We aren't entirely sure if the person who worked on that Goku image from 42 is Inaba or not, but Inaba does seem to find his way onto a lot of Super episodes with good or decent cuts. It is extremely hard to pick out key animators sometimes!

Speaking of Inaba, I tried to search through every episode he's credited with on to try and find hints of stuff similar to said image from episode 42 or similarities in general. It was difficult to look out for, especially since I'm not even sure what he specializes in. He hasn't worked as an animation supervisor before as far as I can tell, so it's tough to know what he likes to do. Inaba might not have even drawn that image, he just looks to be a prime candidate. If it isn't him, there are probably two other candidates: Nashizawa Takashi or Tu Yeong-chaek. Nashizawa has worked on the same episodes as Inaba quite a bit, and actually seems to have a ton of experience (including supervising experience) under his belt. Tu Yeong-chaek is the least likely of the three, since he's done key animation so many episodes in a row that he probably doesn't have time to fine tune much, but I figured I'd throw his name into the mix on the off chance that some of the well done key frames in episode 34 (a mostly Yashima episode) were drawn by him. Granted, I don't know much about Nashizawa, so there might be people here familiar with his work who already know to write him off.

I've had very little luck finding truly distinguishable stuff for Inaba. Most of the episodes he has animated for were either worked on pretty heavily by their supervisors or had other talented people working on the episode that could have drawn certain frames. Still, I'd like to think he's one of the more talented members of the staff just due to how much I see him pop up and how often his episodes have at least decent stuff. Same with Nashizawa.

I'm looking forward to seeing the key animator list for the upcoming episode. If it isn't Takahashi animating that beam, we might start getting a clearer picture. Then again, it might just be Karasawa drawing rounder faces and eyes for some reason, I dunno.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by Sodhi » Wed May 18, 2016 12:27 am

Tu Yeong-chaek is that guy who is just there, he really is not someone whose cuts stand out from the rest. He is just there doing his job.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by Wezenheim » Wed May 18, 2016 12:33 am

Sodhi wrote:Tu Yeong-chaek is that guy who is just there, he really is not someone whose cuts stand out from the rest. He is just there doing his job.
That's what I figured. Just thought I'd throw it out there!

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by dhaval_dongre » Wed May 18, 2016 3:13 am

Any idea about when the World Trigger supervisors and other staff started to work on Super ? I know WT ended on May 3, so possibly they did work on ep 39 of super ?

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by Ajay » Wed May 18, 2016 7:33 am

dhaval_dongre wrote:Any idea about when the World Trigger supervisors and other staff started to work on Super ? I know WT ended on May 3, so possibly they did work on ep 39 of super ?
The biggest name I remember coming across was Yuji Hakamada -- a supervisor who once belonged to Studio Carpenter when working on Z and GT. He first popped up in episode 39 and showed off his very recognisable style:
For reference, here's his work on Z:
You can tell it's him from those trademark elf-like Piccolo ears he always rolls with. Also, that Vegeta shot is a lot like the part of #39 where Goku says "KAIOKEN!" for the first time.

There were quite a few World Trigger staff on that episode and I believe the last few have had some, too. Would be cool to see Hakamada supervise some stuff in the future.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by Darkblade1995 » Wed May 18, 2016 9:20 am

There is something I just don't get. I know Yamamuro is the character designer and all, but do the animation teams really have to emulate his designs and even the shading? Cuz the more I look at the shinyness, the more it bothers me, but I just don't understand why every animation team does it. The shading is just wrong in my opinion especially in the face. Is it that they really have no choice and forced upon the animation teams?

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by ArchedThunder » Wed May 18, 2016 9:37 am

Ajay wrote:
dhaval_dongre wrote:Any idea about when the World Trigger supervisors and other staff started to work on Super ? I know WT ended on May 3, so possibly they did work on ep 39 of super ?
The biggest name I remember coming across was Yuji Hakamada -- a supervisor who once belonged to Studio Carpenter when working on Z and GT. He first popped up in episode 39 and showed off his very recognisable style:
For reference, here's his work on Z:
You can tell it's him from those trademark elf-like Piccolo ears he always rolls with. Also, that Vegeta shot is a lot like the part of #39 where Goku says "KAIOKEN!" for the first time.

There were quite a few World Trigger staff on that episode and I believe the last few have had some, too. Would be cool to see Hakamada supervise some stuff in the future.
This artist's style is really strange, but I quite like how Goku's nose is shaded in that first image.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by Ajay » Wed May 18, 2016 10:15 am

Darkblade1995 wrote:There is something I just don't get. I know Yamamuro is the character designer and all, but do the animation teams really have to emulate his designs and even the shading? Cuz the more I look at the shinyness, the more it bothers me, but I just don't understand why every animation team does it. The shading is just wrong in my opinion especially in the face. Is it that they really have no choice and forced upon the animation teams?
They don't have to, but to some extent, the show must look like the show. The Chief Animation Supervisor role exists to provide consistency between episodes, but there's always a degree of leniency there.

There have been a number of episodes so far that greatly deviate from Yamamuro's designs. Tate, Shimanuki, and Iseki all pretty much put a big middle finger up at the character sheets. That said, they still all draw from them to at least some extent.

They sort of have to, really. While I don't like the character designs and don't think they should ever be strictly adhered to, they do exist for a reason. An animator can't really put out an episode that looks like KILL la KILL just because he feels like it.

There has to be at least moderate consistency to provide the show with an identity. Even Tate's close-ups are still very Dragon Ball-like in nature. How things move or stylistic deviations within an episode are entirely up to the animator, though.
Last edited by Ajay on Wed May 18, 2016 10:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by Sodhi » Wed May 18, 2016 10:18 am

Darkblade1995 wrote:There is something I just don't get. I know Yamamuro is the character designer and all, but do the animation teams really have to emulate his designs and even the shading? Cuz the more I look at the shinyness, the more it bothers me, but I just don't understand why every animation team does it. The shading is just wrong in my opinion especially in the face. Is it that they really have no choice and forced upon the animation teams?
Animators are given his character designs every episode, their job is to follow his designs as closely as possible. Also, not only he is the character designer but also the animation director of the series.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Wed May 18, 2016 12:05 pm

Such a shame, really. So muchof their potential is being wasted because of the terrible character designs. Can you imagine how much better their character models would look had Toei appointed talented character designer? As improved as Mashiiro Shimanuki has been under Tadayoshi Yamamuro, he would greatly benefitted from someone else. Just about everyone else would be much better without Yamamuro.

Majority of animation supervisors, except Ebisawa, had been incredibly good under Maeda and Nakatsuru as the character designers of the old series. There's no reason to believe that Tate and Shimanuki can't be better with a better designer.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by Cursemark505 » Wed May 18, 2016 2:16 pm

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:There's no reason to believe that Tate and Shimanuki can't be better with a better designer.
Tate? Yes.
Shimanuki? No.

Shimanuki always has mediocre character models.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by dhaval_dongre » Wed May 18, 2016 2:49 pm

I dont know whether Ajay remembers this. But he told me on reddit that Toei was outsourcing the less important scenes to Chinese and Korean studios from the universe 6 arc onwards. So now that the WT staff is available will they stop outsourcing to control their budget ?

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by DragonHermit » Wed May 18, 2016 3:00 pm

Outsourcing in betweens, or outsourcing full scenes?

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by dhaval_dongre » Wed May 18, 2016 3:00 pm

An interesting article on WT. It had bad animation, really ? http://www.animemaru.com/world-trigger- ... /#comments
Last edited by dhaval_dongre on Wed May 18, 2016 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by dhaval_dongre » Wed May 18, 2016 3:01 pm

DragonHermit wrote:Outsourcing in betweens, or outsourcing full scenes?
He said the less important scenes, so inbetweens most probably.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue - [Updated with #43]

Post by JulieYBM » Wed May 18, 2016 3:21 pm

dhaval_dongre wrote:I dont know whether Ajay remembers this. But he told me on reddit that Toei was outsourcing the less important scenes to Chinese and Korean studios from the universe 6 arc onwards. So now that the WT staff is available will they stop outsourcing to control their budget ?
Outsourcing isn't done for budgetary reasons. It's done because there is too little available staff in-house or at Japanese sub-contracting studios to complete to complete an episode on time.
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