Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by kinisking » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:12 pm

Maybe Manabe is becoming a consistent supervisor so he'll show up regardless of how important the episode is. Or maybe we'll have action filler?
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:15 pm

kinisking wrote:Maybe Manabe is becoming a consistent supervisor so he'll show up regardless of how important the episode is. Or maybe we'll have action filler?
Yeah, action filler could be interesting.

I just find it a little strange that he isn't getting a similar treatment to Tate and Karasawa due to him being given some of Supers important episodes e.g ep 14,27,39, 56 and 63(all of which were important episodes which for the most part he did decently well on).

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by ArchedThunder » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:32 pm

Anyways, assuming the listings are at least right in that all those people will be working somewhere on 66-69, and assuming that Toei doesn't outsource a filler arc, I hope the rotation looks something like this starting with episode 70

70. Yashima
71. New or returning Supervisor (either a one time guest like Iseki was, the return of someone like Toma or Iseki, or someone who is new blood)
72. Ishikawa
73. Shimanuki
74. Karasawa
75. Kitano
76. Tate + Tsuji's Supervisor debut (Start of the next arc), potentially has a Shida cut to really make the start of the arc big
77. Nashizawa
78. Yashima
79. Manabe
80. Wanpak(Kinoshita) with one of the following; Takamura, Sakai or Ono, the other two could be placed on any of the above episodes as a secondary supervisor if needed, if not they could work on 81/82.

And then at this point they could rearrange the supervisors a bit where they are needed and each supervisor would likely get anywhere from 7-12 weeks between episodes after the initial readjustment period following the end of the current arc. Ide has seemingly become the sole chief supervisor, so it only makes sense for Tsuji to become a regular supervisor since she has proven herself to be very capable and can work fast. We don't have the best grasp on Nashizawa's style or ability, but I really feel like he's been permanently promoted and Xenoverse 2 was his trial run. Yashima would get a solid 8 weeks for each episode, because as the relief supervisor it wouldn't really make sense for him to have longer than that, but occasionally if necessary 6 or 7 weeks for one of his episodes would be acceptable as he has already proven himself capable of that. Manabe has seemingly joined the staff for real now and I imagine he'll be treated similarly to Ishikawa and Shimanuki in that sometimes he'll get important episodes, but won't given the preferential treatment that Tate and Karasawa seem to have, but won't be thrown under the bus like has happened to Kitano multiple times. Takamura, Sakai and Ono are the biggest question marks, so far they have seemingly only been support supervisors and I would imagine they'll probably stay that way.
JazzMazz wrote:I'm not sure why they would give Manabe an episode after the action is over, maybe Toei has decided not to treat him as a high priority supervisor?
(Which is a little stupid considering his ability to supervise episodes like 63)
Also, I second the notion that we get at least a couple of episodes with little to no action in it, that should give the good key animators on super time produce something for episodes that actually need it. Saikyo no Senshi suggested outsourcing the next filler arc, which I think would be a good decision on Toei's part.
The best I can figure on Manabe being doubled up with someone else and coming so soon after the arc is if there is an action episode that immediately follows the arc like episode 42 (as mentioned above).

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:37 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:Anyways, assuming the listings are at least right in that all those people will be working somewhere on 66-69, and assuming that Toei doesn't outsource a filler arc, I hope the rotation looks something like this starting with episode 70

70. Yashima
71. New or returning Supervisor (either a one time guest like Iseki was, the return of someone like Toma or Iseki, or someone who is new blood)
72. Ishikawa
73. Shimanuki
74. Karasawa
75. Kitano
76. Tate + Tsuji's Supervisor debut (Start of the next arc), potentially has a Shida cut to really make the start of the arc big
77. Nashizawa
78. Yashima
79. Manabe
80. Wanpak(Kinoshita) with one of the following; Takamura, Sakai or Ono, the other two could be placed on any of the above episodes as a secondary supervisor if needed, if not they could work on 81/82.

And then at this point they could rearrange the supervisors a bit where they are needed and each supervisor would likely get anywhere from 7-12 weeks between episodes after the initial readjustment period following the end of the current arc. Ide has seemingly become the sole chief supervisor, so it only makes sense for Tsuji to become a regular supervisor since she has proven herself to be very capable and can work fast. We don't have the best grasp on Nashizawa's style or ability, but I really feel like he's been permanently promoted and Xenoverse 2 was his trial run. Yashima would get a solid 8 weeks for each episode, because as the relief supervisor it wouldn't really make sense for him to have longer than that, but occasionally if necessary 6 or 7 weeks for one of his episodes would be acceptable as he has already proven himself capable of that. Manabe has seemingly joined the staff for real now and I imagine he'll be treated similarly to Ishikawa and Shimanuki in that sometimes he'll get important episodes, but won't given the preferential treatment that Tate and Karasawa seem to have, but won't be thrown under the bus like has happened to Kitano multiple times. Takamura, Sakai and Ono are the biggest question marks, so far they have seemingly only been support supervisors and I would imagine they'll probably stay that way.
[spoiler]
JazzMazz wrote:I'm not sure why they would give Manabe an episode after the action is over, maybe Toei has decided not to treat him as a high priority supervisor?
(Which is a little stupid considering his ability to supervise episodes like 63)
Also, I second the notion that we get at least a couple of episodes with little to no action in it, that should give the good key animators on super time produce something for episodes that actually need it. Saikyo no Senshi suggested outsourcing the next filler arc, which I think would be a good decision on Toei's part.
[/spoiler]
The best I can figure on Manabe being doubled up with someone else and coming so soon after the arc is if there is an action episode that immediately follows the arc like episode 42 (as mentioned above).
That would certainly be an interesting rotation for the next arc. Yeah Manabe might be doing action filler, I'll be disappointed if he isn't though. Anyways, Manabe being a regular supervisor should be nice, his probably one of, if not the best in terms of pure supervision on the series.
P.S. I still think they're probably going to throw Yashima and Kitano under the bus from time to time.
Last edited by JazzMazz on Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by ArchedThunder » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:41 pm

JazzMazz wrote: That would certainly be an interesting rotation for the next arc. However, I think following the trend of previous episodes, Karasawa might be directly before or directly after Tate. Yeah Manabe might be doing action filler, I'll be disappointed if he isn't though.
Karasawa did a filler episode before the current arc and didn't do the episode following Tate's first episode of the arc. Karasawa and Tate seem to go back to back when there are two huge episodes in a row, so unless the second episode is huge I don't think there is anything wrong with placing Karasawa's next episode in the filler.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:45 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: That would certainly be an interesting rotation for the next arc. However, I think following the trend of previous episodes, Karasawa might be directly before or directly after Tate. Yeah Manabe might be doing action filler, I'll be disappointed if he isn't though.
Karasawa did a filler episode before the current arc and didn't do the episode following Tate's first episode of the arc. Karasawa and Tate seem to go back to back when there are two huge episodes in a row, so unless the second episode is huge I don't think there is anything wrong with placing Karasawa's next episode in the filler.
I can see that, it's just that their rotations has been very non-linear, espicially throughout this arc.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by ArchedThunder » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:50 pm

JazzMazz wrote: I can see that, it's just that their rotations has been very non-linear, espicially throughout this arc.
That's kinda been a thing of circumstance though I think. The production for this arc was at a place where non action episodes could come out polished with a single supervisor, but to get out good action episodes they needed 2 supervisors, but this became and issue since so many episodes this arc have action (especially the second half) and the arc is 20 episodes long instead of a 7 episode tournament, but the show doesn't have a whole lot of supervisors and we even lost two. On top of that Toei recently started even more shows, making it harder for Super to grab talent. If the show can get to the point where most episodes only need a single supervisor then scheduling what episodes each supervisor goes on should be much, much easier and they should have a lot more flexibility on moving people around and hopefully we'll never have to see them doubling up all of the supervisors on a small number of episodes and having to sacrifice multiple episodes one after another because they just don't have enough supervisors to not force someone to do another episode quickly after their last.

EDIT: I just realize that you changed you post right when I quoted you. I don't think the rotation will be perfectly linear, as I said I would just hope for those episodes it goes something like that because that would give each of them a good amount of time on their episodes and then getting it to the point were most episodes have a single supervisor would give them the flexibility to actually move supervisors around more freely without having to fuck one or multiple supervisors over.
Last edited by ArchedThunder on Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:06 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: I can see that, it's just that their rotations has been very non-linear, espicially throughout this arc.
That's kinda been a thing of circumstance though I think. The production for this arc was at a place where non action episodes could come out polished with a single supervisor, but to get out good action episodes they needed 2 supervisors, but this became and issue since so many episodes this arc have action (especially the second half) and the arc is 20 episodes long instead of a 7 episode tournament, but the show doesn't have a whole lot of supervisors and we even lost two. On top of that Toei recently started even more shows, making it harder for Super to grab talent. If the show can get to the point where most episodes only need a single supervisor then scheduling what episodes each supervisor goes on should be much, much easier and they should have a lot more flexibility on moving people around and hopefully we'll never have to see them doubling up all of the supervisors on a small number of episodes and having to sacrifice multiple episodes because they just don't have enough supervisors to not force someone to do another episode quickly after their last.
Yeah I kinda hope that the next arc has far more breaks in the action than this arc did. I thought this entire arc has had way to much action going on in it even during the first half, with episodes just including a major action sequence even when they weren't necessary(episode 49). I feel like if they cut down on these type of unnecessary action sequences, key animators like Futoshi would actually be able to produce something really fantastic when it actually counts.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by ArchedThunder » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:10 pm

JazzMazz wrote: Yeah I kinda hope that the next arc has far more breaks in the action than this arc did. I thought this entire arc has had way to much action going on in it even during the first half, with episodes just including a major action sequence even when they weren't necessary(episode 49). I feel like if they cut down on these type of unnecessary action sequences, key animators like Futoshi would actually be able to produce something really fantastic when it actually counts.
I think putting action in nearly every episode was an attempt to keep people coming back every week, but ultimately it resulted in them biting off more than they can chew, hopefully they've either kept that in mind when planning out the next arc or at the very least got enough preproduction done that they can get away with doing action that often without hurting the show.
Seeing how the next arc turns out from a production standpoint will be very interesting. The Champa arc was of a higher quality than the F arc and the Future Trunks arc has been of a high quality than that (most of the time), will that trend continue?

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:22 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: Yeah I kinda hope that the next arc has far more breaks in the action than this arc did. I thought this entire arc has had way to much action going on in it even during the first half, with episodes just including a major action sequence even when they weren't necessary(episode 49). I feel like if they cut down on these type of unnecessary action sequences, key animators like Futoshi would actually be able to produce something really fantastic when it actually counts.
I think putting action in nearly every episode was an attempt to keep people coming back every week, but ultimately it resulted in them biting off more than they can chew, hopefully they've either kept that in mind when planning out the next arc or at the very least got enough preproduction done that they can get away with doing action that often without hurting the show.
Seeing how the next arc turns out from a production standpoint will be very interesting. The Champa arc was of a higher quality than the F arc and the Future Trunks arc has been of a high quality than that (most of the time), will that trend continue?
Hopefully it does continue improving. All that unnecessary action really didn't need to be there and though I didn't mind it, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it gone. Espicially since it took key animators away from things they should have probably been working on.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by Mazingerdestro » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:51 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: Yeah I kinda hope that the next arc has far more breaks in the action than this arc did. I thought this entire arc has had way to much action going on in it even during the first half, with episodes just including a major action sequence even when they weren't necessary(episode 49). I feel like if they cut down on these type of unnecessary action sequences, key animators like Futoshi would actually be able to produce something really fantastic when it actually counts.
I think putting action in nearly every episode was an attempt to keep people coming back every week, but ultimately it resulted in them biting off more than they can chew, hopefully they've either kept that in mind when planning out the next arc or at the very least got enough preproduction done that they can get away with doing action that often without hurting the show.
Seeing how the next arc turns out from a production standpoint will be very interesting. The Champa arc was of a higher quality than the F arc and the Future Trunks arc has been of a high quality than that (most of the time), will that trend continue?
I think the show is doing fine now. The schedule is 75% ok and that extra 25% will come later. I hope the series continues enough so we can finally reach that 100%

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by dbs fanboy » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:45 pm

Mazingerdestro wrote:
ArchedThunder wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: Yeah I kinda hope that the next arc has far more breaks in the action than this arc did. I thought this entire arc has had way to much action going on in it even during the first half, with episodes just including a major action sequence even when they weren't necessary(episode 49). I feel like if they cut down on these type of unnecessary action sequences, key animators like Futoshi would actually be able to produce something really fantastic when it actually counts.
I think putting action in nearly every episode was an attempt to keep people coming back every week, but ultimately it resulted in them biting off more than they can chew, hopefully they've either kept that in mind when planning out the next arc or at the very least got enough preproduction done that they can get away with doing action that often without hurting the show.
Seeing how the next arc turns out from a production standpoint will be very interesting. The Champa arc was of a higher quality than the F arc and the Future Trunks arc has been of a high quality than that (most of the time), will that trend continue?
I think the show is doing fine now. The schedule is 75% ok and that extra 25% will come later. I hope the series continues enough so we can finally reach that 100%
Lol, maybe super is just like mob pshyco 100 and when it reaches it's 100%, things will get crazy :lol:
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by Mazingerdestro » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:17 pm

dbs fanboy wrote: Lol, maybe super is just like mob pshyco 100 and when it reaches it's 100%, things will get crazy :lol:
LOL Toei animators % till explosion of awesome animation

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by ArchedThunder » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:59 pm

Mazingerdestro wrote: I think the show is doing fine now. The schedule is 75% ok and that extra 25% will come later. I hope the series continues enough so we can finally reach that 100%
For the most part, but when we get situations like these last few weeks were all of the supervisors need to double up it creates problems and it really shows that there are still improvements to be made. I'll I said earlier, if they can get it to the point where the majority of episodes only need one supervisor we'll probably be in for a much more consistent arc, even if we run into issues where they can't get enough animators for some episodes.
Toei, Shueisha and Bandai all seem to be buckling in for the long haul, I feel more confident than ever that Super will eventually reach the point of a totally normal production, it's just a matter of when. If we're lucky it might happen within the next year.
dbs fanboy wrote: Lol, maybe super is just like mob pshyco 100 and when it reaches it's 100%, things will get crazy :lol:
Mazingerdestro wrote: LOL Toei animators % till explosion of awesome animation
Episode 66 is 100%, and just like after Mob goes 100% he drops back down to 0% afterwards and that's why 67 is going to look not so good. =P

Seriously speaking, my expectations for next week are really low, but maybe we'll be surprised and there will be at least one great animator that will handle some of the remaining action and Kitano will mainly be doing static stuff. So it'd kinda be like 14 or 27, some really nice action but the art isn't great overall.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by ryou766 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:14 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:Episode 66 is 100%, and just like after Mob goes 100% he drops back down to 0% afterwards and that's why 67 is going to look not so good. =P
I can't believe how accurate this is. :clap:

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by kinisking » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:31 pm

Eh Kitanos art by itself isn't that bad guys. We have to worry about the animation though
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by Mazingerdestro » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:45 pm

ArchedThunder wrote: Episode 66 is 100%, and just like after Mob goes 100% he drops back down to 0% afterwards and that's why 67 is going to look not so good. =P

Seriously speaking, my expectations for next week are really low, but maybe we'll be surprised and there will be at least one great animator that will handle some of the remaining action and Kitano will mainly be doing static stuff. So it'd kinda be like 14 or 27, some really nice action but the art isn't great overall.
Calling Kitano a 0%!!!! Damn you :p

Kitano is the Reigen of super. He will absorb Shida's skill and make the best episode. Just wait.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by ArchedThunder » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:57 pm

Mazingerdestro wrote: Calling Kitano a 0%!!!! Damn you :p

Kitano is the Reigen of super. He will absorb Shida's skill and make the best episode. Just wait.
This says otherwise. At least the face shape isn't awful like rushed Kitano faces usually are, it's mainly the eyes that ruin it.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by Mazingerdestro » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:18 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:
Mazingerdestro wrote: Calling Kitano a 0%!!!! Damn you :p

Kitano is the Reigen of super. He will absorb Shida's skill and make the best episode. Just wait.
This says otherwise. At least the face shape isn't awful like rushed Kitano faces usually are, it's mainly the eyes that ruin it.
Let's hope Godmuro will do some correction like in 13

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 65

Post by ArchedThunder » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:28 pm

That episode was just... incredible... holy shit.
and the art in the NEP actually look... good?

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