Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by Nasryyy » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:31 am

Gashif Aldi wrote:
Nasryyy wrote:does anyone have the staff list for battle of gods and resurrection F movies ?
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/movie/revival-of-f/

I'm surprised that Hisashi Eguchi was animating some of RoF.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/movie/battle-of-gods/
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by ArchedThunder » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:34 am

Something to keep an eye on that could give us a good insight into the state of Super's production in a few months. Toshio tweeted that he has started writing an episode of Super that contains "The most funny fight".
Time to keep an eye out for the next Toshio episode that has a comedic fight.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by kinisking » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:35 am

ArchedThunder wrote:Something to keep an eye on that could give us a good insight into the state of Super's production in a few months. Toshio tweeted that he has started writing an episode of Super that contains "The most funny fight".
Time to keep an eye out for the next Toshio episode that has a comedic fight.
I think someone mentioned it earlier. It's got to be a Roshi fight.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by ArchedThunder » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:37 am

kinisking wrote: I think someone mentioned it earlier. It's got to be a Roshi fight.
Who knows, I do feel like all of the June and July episodes will end up being written by Tomioka, so we might not see the episode Toshio is writing until August or later. I'm hoping it's a late August episode at the earliest.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:49 am

The script writers have nothing to do with the production of Dragon Ball Super; that's for pre-production. It's the key animators that are vital for the improvement of the production process. Without any extra times key animators need to complete cuts ahead of schedule, we are still pretty much stuck in the hellish schedule.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by ArchedThunder » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:54 am

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:The script writers have nothing to do with the production of Dragon Ball Super; that's for pre-production. It's the key animators that are vital for the improvement of the production process. Without any extra times key animators need to complete cuts ahead of schedule, we are still pretty much stuck in the hellish schedule.
When scripts are done ahead of time it's easier to get storyboards done ahead of time and when storyboards are done ahead of time it's easier to schedule animators for episodes.
The production issue is not just one of animators, it's the entire production and they can't just improve it for the animators because their schedules are reliant on when scripts and storyboards are done.
Animators don't want to work on the show because they are put on a tight schedule, the animators are put on a tight schedule because the storyboards aren't done as early as they should be, the storyboards aren't don't as early as they should be because the scripts aren't done as early as they should be, and the scripts aren't done as early as they should be because the show started with little preproduction time. Knowing how far back the scripts are being worked on will give us insight on how things are right now.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:18 am

JazzMazz wrote: What are your thoughts on the criticism leveled at Tate's repeated frames during those scenes? Why did they stick out to you in a more positive manner?
The poster used his words instead of the usual "Tate doesn't fit DB", so I respect his opinion. I can't say I agree though. I disagree entirely with the limbs stretching part. It enhances the cuts and shows the animator's passion and the energy of the scene rather than distract. Over exaggeration is something Tate does quite a bit and I'm fond of it. I expect Tate to do that. That's why I'm a fan of his work in the first place. His smears are also gorgeous.

As for why it stuck out to me in a positive manner, it's simple. In motion, it looks good. That's how I view animation and that's how repeat frames should be done more often. That, and the storyboarding and direction as well as the backgrounds complemented it. There's nothing to dislike in my opinion of course.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:28 am

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: What are your thoughts on the criticism leveled at Tate's repeated frames during those scenes? Why did they stick out to you in a more positive manner?
The poster used his words instead of the usual "Tate doesn't fit DB", so I respect his opinion. I can't say I agree though. I disagree entirely with the limbs stretching part. It enhances the cuts and shows the animator's passion and the energy of the scene rather than distract. Over exaggeration is something Tate does quite a bit and I'm fond of it. I expect Tate to do that. That's why I'm a fan of his work in the first place. His smears are also gorgeous.

As for why it stuck out to me in a positive manner, it's simple. In motion, it looks good. That's how I view animation and that's how repeat frames should be done more often. That, and the storyboarding and direction as well as the backgrounds complemented it. There's nothing to dislike in my opinion of course.
Thanks for the reply, it's been interesting seeing different views from people with different opinions and has really helped deepen my understanding of animation. It has been an enlightening discussion.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by Gashif Aldi » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:51 am

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:The script writers have nothing to do with the production of Dragon Ball Super; that's for pre-production. It's the key animators that are vital for the improvement of the production process. Without any extra times key animators need to complete cuts ahead of schedule, we are still pretty much stuck in the hellish schedule.
The script is also important, because it executed how the story goes, then adapted into Storyboard, finally it became an animation. So more time on script, better story.

Like, the manga have less plotholes than the anime.
Examples: No Asspulls, Rosè explanation, Goku actually doing Mafuba, better executed overall.
So the fact that the script writing in the production is rushed, makes thing worse.

If the schedule was good at the start, then we would still had Chioka directing the series. If Chioka is still here with good schedule, the story would have changed a lot.
The way it executed, the way how the plot points connect together, good filler, and the comedy of course.

So both are important, the script is essentially the story itself, and the animation just executed that script. I mean SSB Kaioken itself is from Chioka's direction.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by emperior » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:11 am

Gashif Aldi wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:The script writers have nothing to do with the production of Dragon Ball Super; that's for pre-production. It's the key animators that are vital for the improvement of the production process. Without any extra times key animators need to complete cuts ahead of schedule, we are still pretty much stuck in the hellish schedule.
The script is also important, because it executed how the story goes, then adapted into Storyboard, finally it became an animation. So more time on script, better story.

Like, the manga have less plotholes than the anime.
Examples: No Asspulls, Rosè explanation, Goku actually doing Mafuba, better executed overall.
So the fact that the script writing in the production is rushed, makes thing worse.

If the schedule was good at the start, then we would still had Chioka directing the series. If Chioka is still here with good schedule, the story would have changed a lot.
The way it executed, the way how the plot points connect together, good filler, and the comedy of course.

So both are important, the script is essentially the story itself, and the animation just executed that script. I mean SSB Kaioken itself is from Chioka's direction.
Nothing of what you listed is a plothole.
The manga just tried to explain everything while the anime mostly doesn't bother giving an explanation, unless it's from Toriyama.
Which is actually fine as SSJ3 is still unexplained to this day too, and I bet Toyotaro would have tried to explain it if it happened today.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:44 am

Gashif Aldi wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:The script writers have nothing to do with the production of Dragon Ball Super; that's for pre-production. It's the key animators that are vital for the improvement of the production process. Without any extra times key animators need to complete cuts ahead of schedule, we are still pretty much stuck in the hellish schedule.
The script is also important, because it executed how the story goes, then adapted into Storyboard, finally it became an animation. So more time on script, better story.

Like, the manga have less plotholes than the anime.
Examples: No Asspulls, Rosè explanation, Goku actually doing Mafuba, better executed overall.
So the fact that the script writing in the production is rushed, makes thing worse.

If the schedule was good at the start, then we would still had Chioka directing the series. If Chioka is still here with good schedule, the story would have changed a lot.
The way it executed, the way how the plot points connect together, good filler, and the comedy of course.

So both are important, the script is essentially the story itself, and the animation just executed that script. I mean SSB Kaioken itself is from Chioka's direction.
What your saying is that by improving the schedule and giving more time to polishing the script, we might actually finally recieve some truly satisfying and meaningful story arcs that don't make the actions of the characters completely pointless and irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:45 am

Alee9977 wrote:
Psykomatik wrote:[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Who did that shot? To me, it looks like someone traced over a Toyotaro panel...
Finally a good nose, It has to be a tracing, either way they wouldn't be doing that nose
Could you explain this logic? I don't see how the only way for the animator(s) to do that nose would be via tracing and not their drawing skills evolving?
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by Ajay » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:50 am

It's not even a 'good nose'. It's a pretty standard 'hole in the face' that's on most Dragon Ball characters these days. I don't see how it's any different from what Yokoyama has delivered before.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by Alee9977 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:53 pm

I know, but it is way better than the straight noses we see in every chárter, It's not the best thing ever but it's better than Yamamuro's nose.
Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:
Alee9977 wrote:
Psykomatik wrote:[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Who did that shot? To me, it looks like someone traced over a Toyotaro panel...
Finally a good nose, It has to be a tracing, either way they wouldn't be doing that nose
Could you explain this logic? I don't see how the only way for the animator(s) to do that nose would be via tracing and not their drawing skills evolving?
Maybe not tracing but they have to deviate from Yamamuro's sheet to be able to do it, also he/she should have watched it elsewhere to do it.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by jeffbr92 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:02 pm

Sodhi wrote:#89 Image
Image
Love this background, it's nice that Super is improving in this area, I remember those static backgrounds in the end of Future Trunks arc were pretty awful
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by Octorockandroll » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:09 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:
Sodhi wrote:#89 Image
Image
Love this background, it's nice that Super is improving in this area, I remember those static backgrounds in the end of Future Trunks arc were pretty awful
I completely agree although I must say that I'm pretty disappointed that they still aren't fixing Tien's design even after they fixed Krillin's.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:30 pm

Octorockandroll wrote: I completely agree although I must say that I'm pretty disappointed that they still aren't fixing Tien's design even after they fixed Krillin's.
What's wrong with thisTien design?
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by Octorockandroll » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:36 pm

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:
Octorockandroll wrote: I completely agree although I must say that I'm pretty disappointed that they still aren't fixing Tien's design even after they fixed Krillin's.
What's wrong with thisTien design?
The clothes look ugly and he's gotten tiny as hell despite never stopping his training.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by emperior » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:24 pm

Octorockandroll wrote:
Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:
Octorockandroll wrote: I completely agree although I must say that I'm pretty disappointed that they still aren't fixing Tien's design even after they fixed Krillin's.
What's wrong with thisTien design?
The clothes look ugly and he's gotten tiny as hell despite never stopping his training.
It's because unlike Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo and now Gohan, they are going by Toriyama's design which Yamamuro probably didn't change much.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 86

Post by dhaval_dongre » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:39 pm

I think the schedule has improved than before but is still in a tough place. If it was in a good place the staff list would have reflected that and wouldn't be so huge as we usually see. But it does take the load off the core Toei staff. Tate's work in #86 is a good example. The outsourcing in 79 definitely played a hand behind his great work in 86. It must be really costing them a lot to keep producing episodes with such a huge staff list per episode. But you know what they have to, and they are doing it right now. Because they know its doing well and to keep it relevant they have to invest. There must be pressure from Sueisha as well. They were even involved in changing directors back in the Dragon Ball days, so they must be pretty involved now as well.

Though there's definitely a lot of room for improvement, their current strategy is at the least helping out the important animators. I am excited for Itai's episode this week. His last was 81, so its definitely better than what he had in the past. Lets hope that they bring some important animators for the tournament and that they have just enough time to produce something great.

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