Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Noah]

This post is what I feel about reused animation:

I'll admit this episode wasn't the most spectacular but I'm not really sure why a lot of people are complaining about the reused art/animation. This really has nothing to do with toei being cheap its just that its impossible for a weekly series to animate 80 fighters fighting on par with the quality we got during Merged Zamasu and Vegetto fight. Would you rather them not reuse perfectly fine animation and do everything from the ground up and we get 80 fighters that look like this?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Man, this is a really good shot from Yamamuro.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
He even almost closed the earlobe. I like the look of half closed ear lobes, Karasawa did it in 94 as well.
If Yamamuro ever starts drawing front on noses in a classic style again I'm going to cry tears of joy.

Not really, I mean what the heck with his neck? It looks unnaturally huge.

The only thing that cheered me up after this episode
[spoiler][/spoiler]

I think this is one of the rarest shots of Gohan that looks awesome without his bang

[FortuneSSJ]

Anyone here ever watched Digimon?! That show has one of best examples of offensive bank animation.

Every time the Digimons transformed the scenes would always be the same.
Always seeing the same animation every time one Digimon transforms is already tiring, but there would be times all the Digimons of the main cast on-screen transformed one after another. The whole sequence could be mentally tiring and it's right on your face, unlike what we had in Super last episode where you need to have trained eyes (or someone pointing out to you) to notice they are reusing stuff.

Don't know about Crystal, but the first Sailor Moon anime had the same problem with their transformations.

Wait, it was only 30 seconds? Geez, people need to chill out.

You write like you don't know what fanbase and what show we're talking about.

The funniest thing is that most people complaining about it outside here wouldn't probably noticed it if someone didn't point out to them. Meanwhile DBZ with its repeated frames is still put on a pedestal by these people. Nowadays we have animation "experts" everywhere.

[ChaosX79]

So I'd like to point out my problems with the latest shots of Goku by Yamamuro.

Spoiler:

I'll say it right now, I don't really like Yamamuro's modern designs, nuff said, they look flat compared to his veteran Buu Saga designs. He has inconsistencies on the character details, and stuff I'll explain in this next comparison.

Also just saying, I'm expressing my opinions on an inbetween frame, I know Yamamuro maybe didn't put a lot of priority on this shot, but it's kind of a short non-movement animation so it has quite a handful of detail put in it, just expressing how I feel with Yamamuro's designs on this one.

This is the picture in question:

Spoiler:

I'll point out my main problems with it:

Spoiler:

• 1st:I don't mind the hair highlights at all, sometimes I like how they give even more detail to the character, BUT there's one thing I don't like about them, they just look bad with all those layers of light, they make the hair look overly bright in some cases. If you remove the third most bright layer of light in the hair, it would look perfect in all characters with black hair, at least in my point of view.
• 2nd: Now this is a classic for nostalgia fans; the skin highlights, just remove them Yamamuro-sama.
• 3rd: Most of Goku's body looks decent in some ways, but WHAT IN THE HELL happened to Goku's backside neck? compared to his frontal side of the neck, it looks HUGE. I mean, it would make sense for the backside neck to look like that if Goku were leaning his face downwards (more than this shot already shows), I may be overexaggerating it, but JESUS it looks HUGE.
• 4th: This I saw very few other people complaining about, but Yamamuro-sama just take out that forth bang of hair in the small group of hair in the right! It looked fine with just three, I get that Yamamuro added that forth bang of hair cause Toriyama did in his most recent drawings of base goku (hence the said he balance between Buu Saga goku and Toriyama's recent designs), but it just looks bad on Buu Saga goku mix here, he looks like he had a bad day with the hair comb everyday.
• 5th: There's a half-nice looking ear in there, the ear lobe is annoying to look at, cause it's not fully closed, it's almost as if it were a tease from part of Yamamuro to not add the ear lobe again, without it, the face just looks plain flat like a plain of ricefields.

I hope to not trigger anyone with this, I still kind of like Yamamuro's designs of this decade, but still has a LONG way to go to perfect the modern design of Dragon Ball he so much flattened in the past few years.

[A Man named RJ]

The funniest thing is that most people complaining about it outside here wouldn't probably noticed it if someone didn't point out to them. Meanwhile DBZ with its repeated frames is still put on a pedestal by these people. Nowadays we have animation "experts" everywhere.

You're generalizing so hard you've merged like 3 different groups of people.

Theres Henshin Entusiasts: they love their transformation sequences that use repeated stock footage - something that has it's origin in tokusetsu hero shows. sure we all know they're reused so consistently, but the context they're given (being the repetitive transformation sequence) actually gives them a reason to exist as reused animation similarly to their live-action equivalent. But, reusing animation from a previous fight? very noticable - especially when that fight was pretty distinct. Such as the Cut taken from Goku vs Buu where they color swapped the glowing balls and kept the very Janky-looking dodging animation

Then there's the "OMG DEE BEE ZEE WAS DA BEST" crowd- usually spooted by their love of Bruce Faulconer, and their thoughts that the orange bricks were the definitive colors on Dragon ball those goofballs who dont reeally exist on this specific super animation guide forum with the exception of maybe Curtas and a couple of other newbies. In fact We've made fun of those people several times on these forums for praising the archaic looping frames over a more modern, dynamic approach in our multitude of discussions about Naoki Tate

Finally there's us; The DOUGA-tards/ Doutaku/ Douga Otaku/ Douga Nerds.... whatever you wanna call it: We are the sakuga fans, genga collectors animation industry hobbyists, professional and hobbyist animators and industry historians/ encyclopedias. We are not the second group.

Though I do worry that we may have a bit more outside influence than we previously thought. For instance because we did notice the reused animation, and commented about it on other comment sections and forums we may have awakened a beast.

[Artorias]

It's kinda hilarious how the general public will zoom in on an in-between frame and claim "bad animation", but then they won't say shit about this obviously mediocre looking episode. I understand everyone can't be as knowledgeable as others but...Christ save your complaining for when it actually makes sense. THIS is worth criticizing, yet I've seen SO MANY people claim this was "well animated". Kinda baffling honestly.

Did anyone notice the ugly repeated frames in the NEP with Vegeta? Really the ugliest I've ever seen, for some reason Super can't make repeated frame look good.

Lol yea I noticed for sure. It looks like his hands and feet are just being swapped in and out between each other. It looks really bad...and that's exactly how you DON'T do repeat frames. As much as DBZ abused the shit out of repeat frames, they still made them engaging most of the time, but Super rarely does this. They got it right with that opening cut of Goku vs Hit, but almost every other time it's pretty lame looking.

Had to make a Gif of this moment, it was too amusing.

God, that looks just as ridiculous as it did when it first appeared in the Buu v Goku episode. I can't tell if he's getting hit or blocking everything or what but the jank is real.

[Hit!!]

Sometimes we need to refresh our memories:

[spoiler]Goku vs Botamo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8QvMMRloqI[/spoiler]

This is what episode 97 would've looked like if they DIDN'T use bank animation.

[precita]

Goddamn, I still can't believe the animation was so awful at the beginning of the Champa tournament. I do remember it improving as it went on, but the Botamo and Frost fights in particular looked like absolute garbage. What we have in Super now is an absolute godsend compared to that.

The animation in Super really was hot garbage for it's first 30 or so episodes.

[dbgtFO]

This is the picture in question:

Spoiler:

I'll point out my main problems with it:

[*] 4th: This I saw very few other people complaining about, but Yamamuro-sama just take out that forth bang of hair in the small group of hair in the right! It looked fine with just three, I get that Yamamuro added that forth bang of hair cause Toriyama did in his most recent drawings of base goku (hence the said he balance between Buu Saga goku and Toriyama's recent designs), but it just looks bad on Buu Saga goku mix here, he looks like he had a bad day with the hair comb everyday.

I hope to not trigger anyone with this, I still kind of like Yamamuro's designs of this decade, but still has a LONG way to go to perfect the modern design of Dragon Ball he so much flattened in the past few years.

What I find incredibly off-putting is his bang right here:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Its proximity to one of the forehead bangs just makes it look completely ridiculous and ensures a lack of depth.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Goddamn, I still can't believe the animation was so awful at the beginning of the Champa tournament. I do remember it improving as it went on, but the Botamo and Frost fights in particular looked like absolute garbage. What we have in Super now is an absolute godsend compared to that.

The animation in Super really was hot garbage for it's first 30 or so episodes.

Yeah I was actually re reading this thread and the reactions to those episodes were really damning, everyone was so depressed!! And yeah it did improve and when the Vegeta and Hit episode happened everyone was all of a sudden really happy lol.

[emperior]

Why won't they update Goku's hair to make it 3 bangs on the side instead of 4?
It's always been 3 bangs until Toriyama drew Goku with 4, but that was in a few occasions and with SSG Goku was back to 3 bangs and Goku Black also has 3 bangs. If they could just use Goku Black's head for Goku's design (removing the potara and fully outlined eyes obviously) it would make Goku look so much better.
Though it seems like Toriyama is fine with Goku's current design or else he would have handed Toei a new design for base Goku/suggested changes. I just hope that Yamamuro will keep the trend of completely trace over Toriyama's new designs for Goku's new transformation/power-up (if it is designed by Toriyama of course)

[Nasryyy]

Why won't they update Goku's hair to make it 3 bangs on the side instead of 4?
It's always been 3 bangs until Toriyama drew Goku with 4, but that was in a few occasions and with SSG Goku was back to 3 bangs and Goku Black also has 3 bangs. If they could just use Goku Black's head for Goku's design (removing the potara and fully outlined eyes obviously) it would make Goku look so much better.
Though it seems like Toriyama is fine with Goku's current design or else he would have handed Toei a new design for base Goku/suggested changes. I just hope that Yamamuro will keep the trend of completely trace over Toriyama's new designs for Goku's new transformation/power-up (if it is designed by Toriyama of course)

They actually do draw him sometimes with 3 bangs and some other times with 4 bangs, which i absolutely don't understand it's like they're trying to follow the designs and sometimes make the fans happy

[Lord Beerus]

Goddamn, I still can't believe the animation was so awful at the beginning of the Champa tournament. I do remember it improving as it went on, but the Botamo and Frost fights in particular looked like absolute garbage. What we have in Super now is an absolute godsend compared to that.

The animation in Super really was hot garbage for it's first 30 or so episodes.

Honestly, I think the BOG arc, outside of some parts of Episode 5, is actually quite solid in the art and animation department. Episodes 2, 4, 11, 13, and 14 in particular look really good from start to finish. Hell, even some of the ROF arc episodes look alright. Episode 16 in particular having some truly stunning art. It's just from Episodes 22 to 26 that shit goes south visually. With Episode 24 being the nadir for everything wrong with the visual fidelity of modern Dragon Ball. Although, Episode 26 gave us some spectacular cuts of animation from Tate in the first half of that episode that really rival what we get in the movie. Watching the Super dub, and by virtue, re-watching the BOG and ROF arc again, really made me look the movie retellings with a bit of a better perspective of them in terms of art and animation. There truly are some hidden gems in the movie retellings. They are just not remembers due to the sea of average looking episode and couple of truly awful ones (Episode 5, 23, 24, 25, 26) The movie counterparts still look better as a whole, though.

[emperior]

Again, about character designs: why don't they update them? Goku and Vegeta got new designs for the Arale episode, and they looked so much better!

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Goddamn, I still can't believe the animation was so awful at the beginning of the Champa tournament. I do remember it improving as it went on, but the Botamo and Frost fights in particular looked like absolute garbage. What we have in Super now is an absolute godsend compared to that.

The animation in Super really was hot garbage for it's first 30 or so episodes.

Honestly, I think the BOG arc, outside of some parts of Episode 5, is actually quite solid in the art and animation department. Episodes 2, 4, 11, 13, and 14 in particular look really good from start to finish. Hell, even some of the ROF arc episodes look alright. Episode 16 in particular having some truly stunning art. It's just from Episodes 22 to 26 that shit goes south visually. With Episode 24 being the nadir for everything wrong with the visual fidelity of modern Dragon Ball. Although, Episode 26 gave us some spectacular cuts of animation from Tate in the first half of that episode that really rival what we get in the movie. Watching the Super dub, and by virtue, re-watching the BOG and ROF arc again, really made me look the movie retellings with a bit of a better perspective of them in terms of art and animation. There truly are some hidden gems in the movie retellings. They are just not remembers due to the sea of average looking episode and couple of truly awful ones (Episode 5, 23, 24, 25, 26) The movie counterparts still look better as a whole, though.

I agree with you, BoG arc was very good apart from episode 5 (which got fixed and now it looks good enough) and the SSG ritual episode (which wasn't that bad but there were some rough drawings when everyone was transformed and perfoming the ritual)
Apart from those episodes, the other episodes were very polished. Super on a whole isn't that much of a mess, really just fixing the episodes from 23 to 26, 33, 53, 62 and 67's first half would fix most of the issues I have with the show, and then fixing some bad art all over the other episodes would fix Super for me.

[BlueBasilisk]

Again, about character designs: why don't they update them? Goku and Vegeta got new designs for the Arale episode, and they looked so much better!

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I'm hoping they switch Goku and Vegeta to their EoZ outfits soon. They're really running out of wiggle room, and if Goku's new power/form/whatever replaces SSB, they don't have to worry about his colors clashing.

[KameNinja45]

Did Higashide do that little scuffle between Goku and that spy dude that was shown in the 97 preview?

[Hit!!]

Goddamn, I still can't believe the animation was so awful at the beginning of the Champa tournament. I do remember it improving as it went on, but the Botamo and Frost fights in particular looked like absolute garbage. What we have in Super now is an absolute godsend compared to that.

The animation in Super really was hot garbage for it's first 30 or so episodes.

Indeed.. And i was one of those "it wasn't so bad" guys.. I can't believe i tried to defend that atrocity but back then i wasn't used to watching anime other than DB.. Now that i normally watch other series such as HxH, MHA, OPM, AOT etc, i understand things a lot more.

And of course, i've learned a lot from the likes of Ajay and other forumers.

[ArchedThunder]

Sometimes we need to refresh our memories:

[spoiler]Goku vs Botamo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8QvMMRloqI[/spoiler]

This is what episode 97 would've looked like if they DIDN'T use bank animation.

The episode would have looked worse than it did, but it wouldn't have looked as bad as Goku vs Botamo.

It's kinda hilarious how the general public will zoom in on an in-between frame and claim "bad animation", but then they won't say shit about this obviously mediocre looking episode. I understand everyone can't be as knowledgeable as others but...Christ save your complaining for when it actually makes sense. THIS is worth criticizing, yet I've seen SO MANY people claim this was "well animated". Kinda baffling honestly.

Maybe the general viewers aren't complaining about it because it really wasn't bad.

[Hit!!]

Maybe the general viewers aren't complaining about it because it really wasn't bad.

Which is why i said that ep 97 fulfilled its purpose. They maintained the quality, albeit using a ridiculous amount of bank and reused animation. The general public didn't notice it and that's that.

They managed to save time for more important episodes and avoid all the fan backlash and internet bitching about how Supers animation is shit and bla bla bla.

[Slaythe]

In 97, the recycled shots were in your face, but I guess they were acceptable to some extent... it was special attacks. We are kinda conditioned with other animes to see the same attacks or transformations.

98 is recycling an entire melee sequence and it's something that is harder to swallow IMO. (Plus that is one of the weakest part of the entire arc, visually, so I can't believe it would have been much worse to not recycle it)

[emperior]

In 97, the recycled shots were in your face, but I guess they were acceptable to some extent... it was special attacks. We are kinda conditioned with other animes to see the same attacks or transformations.

98 is recycling an entire melee sequence and it's something that is harder to swallow IMO. (Plus that is one of the weakest part of the entire arc, visually, so I can't believe it would have been much worse to not recycle it)

It's lame to see the same battle once again, especially when it never looked that good in the first place. I would much prefer to have 30 seconds of dialogues than rewatching a battle I've already seen.