Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Asura
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Asura » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:46 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:It doesn't even look the same, what do you think?
No need to be rude. It doesn't need to look exactly the same to be a call back. Given the entire fight was just one big Vegeta vs Cell reference, it would not surprise me if this was taken as inspiration.

Both of those moments were "oh shit" moments too, where even the cocky antagonist is caught off-guard by Vegeta being able to punch him.

User avatar
AloversGaming
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:32 pm
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by AloversGaming » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:54 pm

Asura wrote:
ArchedThunder wrote:It doesn't even look the same, what do you think?
No need to be rude. It doesn't need to look exactly the same to be a call back. Given the entire fight was just one big Vegeta vs Cell reference, it would not surprise me if this was taken as inspiration.

Both of those moments were "oh shit" moments too, where even the cocky antagonist is caught off-guard by Vegeta being able to punch him.
I was reminded of his attack on Zarbon. Vegeta loves his gut shots. Sadly the one from #122 is easily the least impressive.

Image

User avatar
fps_anth
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1310
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by fps_anth » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:45 pm

Ajay wrote:The two stand-out scenes for anyone who doesn't keep up with the Sakugabooru uploads:

It's pretty impressive to see work like this on top of extraordinarily polished supervision. Takahashi really is just absurdly talented.
Don't mind me, just picking my jaw up off the floor.

User avatar
majinwarman
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1698
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:50 pm
Location: Freeza Planet 1

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by majinwarman » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:07 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Timetraveller wrote:How does Yamamuro approve Takahashi and Shida intentionally not following his character designs and going for a more DBZ-like art? They're clearly the best animators working on the show. Isn't Yamamuro conceding that his designs suck?
He's a busy guy and unlike a movie where he'd have more control over it a new series would be too much to keep up with every episode, Yamamuro could be busy working on the next arc or upcoming movie back in the Trunks arc he didn't even design Vegetto Blue in hindsight I think it's safe to say he was too busy with designs for this arc.

Plus since Resurrection "F" SP he's been far more lenient when it comes to corrections and letting animators show their voice.

Just got to hope Takahashi can influence Yamamuro for future designs or heck even getting re designs.
I hope so too!! Yeah, Yamamuro has been so busy lately that I believe he phoned it in with the new ending. I don't believe it's Vegeta new form but Yamamuro's rushed drawing of SSB Vegeta.
Majinwarman
So I'm 'evil', huh? Interesting."
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
Asura
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Asura » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:24 am

majinwarman wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Timetraveller wrote:How does Yamamuro approve Takahashi and Shida intentionally not following his character designs and going for a more DBZ-like art? They're clearly the best animators working on the show. Isn't Yamamuro conceding that his designs suck?
He's a busy guy and unlike a movie where he'd have more control over it a new series would be too much to keep up with every episode, Yamamuro could be busy working on the next arc or upcoming movie back in the Trunks arc he didn't even design Vegetto Blue in hindsight I think it's safe to say he was too busy with designs for this arc.

Plus since Resurrection "F" SP he's been far more lenient when it comes to corrections and letting animators show their voice.

Just got to hope Takahashi can influence Yamamuro for future designs or heck even getting re designs.
I hope so too!! Yeah, Yamamuro has been so busy lately that I believe he phoned it in with the new ending. I don't believe it's Vegeta new form but Yamamuro's rushed drawing of SSB Vegeta.
I'd laugh if the UI eyes that Vegeta has in the new ending was an error on Yamamuro's part and they fix it for next episode.

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10275
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:12 am

Crappy Yamamuro drawing aside the colour of SS Goku here is how SS should've look in DBS instead of the sickly looking yellow Vegeta we have:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

User avatar
Amir
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:17 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Amir » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:34 am

What was wrong with the art on the new ending? Can someone explain what was drawn poorly?

User avatar
Noah
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7567
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:56 pm
Location: Virtual World

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Noah » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:44 am

AloversGaming wrote:I reminded of his attack on Zarbon. Vegeta loves his gut shots. Sadly the one from #122 is easily the least impressive.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Nah, it actually was more similiar to that one:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
乃亜

Top 10 DB/Z/GT Songs

Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6123
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Ajay » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:01 pm

Amir wrote:What was wrong with the art on the new ending? Can someone explain what was drawn poorly?
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

On Goku, his deltoids are far too small for his shoulders, so he's got real T-Rex arms going on. He did this on a recent Blu-ray illustration. The foreshortening on his body is also off, so the back leg looks shrunken instead of simply being further back in the frame.

Vegeta's head and neck are far too big and positioned totally wrong for the angle. As a result, he's got a real hunchback gremlin look to him, which Yamamuro also messed up in a similar way in the recent V Jump cover with Ultra Instinct Goku.

I'd photoshop a fix, but it's really hard to do without actually redrawing huge chunks of the image.

The shots of Universe 6 and Universe 11 aren't quite as offensive construction-wise, but the drawings are quite rough considering they're stills in an ED. Jiren's feature placement is pretty questionable though - off-center nose and incredibly low mouth placement.

It's just a really weak ending, even by Yamamuro's current standards. I guess a combination of movie preparations and the upcoming storyboard might have gotten in the way?
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.

Deadtuber.

User avatar
BlueBasilisk
I Live Here
Posts: 3061
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:17 pm

Ajay wrote: It's just a really weak ending, even by Yamamuro's current standards. I guess a combination of movie preparations and the upcoming storyboard might have gotten in the way?
Could it maybe be unfinished or uncorrected? Didn't the last ending have a pretty big cock-up with the running Goku that got fixed later?

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10275
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:46 pm

Yamamuro SB? Oh boy this ought to be interesting.

I wonder if this could lead in for him supervising an episode soon?
BlueBasilisk wrote:
Ajay wrote: It's just a really weak ending, even by Yamamuro's current standards. I guess a combination of movie preparations and the upcoming storyboard might have gotten in the way?
Could it maybe be unfinished or uncorrected? Didn't the last ending have a pretty big cock-up with the running Goku that got fixed later?
Difference is that was animated these are plain stills. Probably won't get corrected or cleaned up.

User avatar
DainIronfoot
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:13 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by DainIronfoot » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:03 pm

Ajay wrote:
Amir wrote:What was wrong with the art on the new ending? Can someone explain what was drawn poorly?
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

On Goku, his deltoids are far too small for his shoulders, so he's got real T-Rex arms going on. He did this on a recent Blu-ray illustration. The foreshortening on his body is also off, so the back leg looks shrunken instead of simply being further back in the frame.

Vegeta's head and neck are far too big and positioned totally wrong for the angle. As a result, he's got a real hunchback gremlin look to him, which Yamamuro also messed up in a similar way in the recent V Jump cover with Ultra Instinct Goku.

I'd photoshop a fix, but it's really hard to do without actually redrawing huge chunks of the image.

The shots of Universe 6 and Universe 11 aren't quite as offensive construction-wise, but the drawings are quite rough considering they're stills in an ED. Jiren's feature placement is pretty questionable though - off-center nose and incredibly low mouth placement.

It's just a really weak ending, even by Yamamuro's current standards. I guess a combination of movie preparations and the upcoming storyboard might have gotten in the way?
It's definitely getting in the way, that much is obvious. Considering the amount of work Tadayoshi has, it's no surprise that this ending was rushed. However, while its not construction wise the best, it isn't the worst thing ever. Most people were too caught up with discussing Vegeta's eyes anyway and most people probably don't notice what is off with Goku.

I've been seeing quite a few people recently comment pretty disrespectful things towards Yammy, and frankly I think it's just wrong. It seems any time Yuya is mentioned (regardless of subject) a few people turn it into senseless Yamamuro bashing. It's CLEARLY obvious that Yuya's art style is far superior than Tadayoshi's at the moment, but the fact that some people criticize just for the sake of it, without any reason (and there are more than enough things to criticize him on) is totally disrespectful. In fact, most of these people probably have no idea how much work he does on the show and a few people I've seen even said something as idiotic as "I saw in a video section that he's bad! Thank god he didn't work on DBZ!" which makes me cringe. Especially due to the fact these people have NO idea how hard his job must be and how much he does for the series. All of the animators. Some are stronger than others in areas but to simply disrespect one of them "for shits and giggles" just makes me facepalm. Take Tate for example. I for one adore his animation fluidity but feel his art lacks. I however, would never say "Tate should go die, he is responsible for that crappy art, clearly a liability to the series". Totally wrong and far from the truth. Whenever i see a video mocking him for his art "just because" without anything constructive or immediately saying "GET RID OF HIM", it's an instant thumbs down. Kitano has a hard time sticking to the designs, but produces pretty rough drawings regardless, and sometimes i even feel Manabe's angular approach can be odd to look at. I respect them though and their approach no matter how off it feels to me at times. I'll criticize what i feel needs criticizing but I'm not going to go as low as some of these random people do to Yamamuro lately. Despite what some people think of the man, he's still iconic to DB and a huge factor of our enjoyment in Z especially, with that amazing old style that Takahashi seems to be influenced by. Does he need to improve? Yes and it's a no brainer that a lot of his work and designs are nothing compared to his Z ones. As Ajay and others have mentioned, his art can be repetitive and bland, but sometimes, they're definitely passable. I mean, if you look at a collage of images of Gohan, Goku, Piccolo etc, drawn by the different animators, you'll notice there are still many who voted/think Yammy's is "high up there"

Also, a lot of people seem to be making a lot of "jokes" about him interfering with the other animator's work, but I've noticed him to be much more lenient recently, which is good imo. I mean with his workload (and to those "keyboard warriors" who think they could do everything he does or the other staff do 100x better...LOL), it must be stressful, and I feel some people need to take that into consideration the next time they want to make a gif about Yamamuro falling off a cliff. It's the internet so It's expected i guess but that doesn't make it any less disrespectful. Anyways, to simplify what I'm saying...

You can (and should) criticize the staff if you want, but at least know why you're doing so and not just because someone else says said person is bad and that you should hate ANYTHING they do. You watch, analyze and YOU determine which style you enjoy.

-Cheers!

User avatar
Asura
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Asura » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:31 pm

Aside from YouTube comments (they're YouTube comments so chances are they have no idea what they're talking about anyway) I haven't seen any disrespectful or senseless bashing of Yamamuro. All of the criticism levied at him is 100% justified in my opinion. Who else do you blame for Dragon Ball's modern designs (from which every other problem stems from) if not the character designer?

User avatar
DainIronfoot
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:13 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by DainIronfoot » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:03 pm

Asura wrote:Aside from YouTube comments (they're YouTube comments so chances are they have no idea what they're talking about anyway) I haven't seen any disrespectful or senseless bashing of Yamamuro. All of the criticism levied at him is 100% justified in my opinion. Who else do you blame for Dragon Ball's modern designs (from which every other problem stems from) if not the character designer?

Criticism of him with points of analysis etc is definitely 100 percent applicable. However, while anyone's criticism can be justified, I'd hope that people would do so in a respectful manner. Those that do that do it respectfully are not the type of comments I've been seeing or referring to. As for the comments themselves, yes it's mostly from YT, FB, Twitter and IG. It's obvious most of em using these platforms have no idea, but some of these comments on Twitter are from people who at least know "some info" about how it operates. The type of comments that just grind my gears are the one's that are just flat air bashing... or gifs as i mentioned with his head falling off a cliff, or his name getting thrown into a trash can and lit on fire. No reason to it, just pure disrespect. While the character designer can be blamed for these designs, there have been some that seem to blame him for anything that's wrong with Super, such as schedule etc. Like i said, it's just these certain comments that people spew out without knowing what he actually does that are annoying. I frankly believe no one on the staff should be treated that way, regardless of people's criticism's. There are much more proper ways to be critical and get ones point across. I guess I should welcome myself to the Internet again, haha.

Anyways, I'm not the biggest fan of Yammy (with these new designs), but like i mentioned in my initial post, I know how hard it can be to do what he does. I guess you could say I've witnessed the effects flat bashing can do to an artist/animator. It's not easy, and while I constantly hope some sort of improvement is coming, I'll respect the man regardless for all he has done/does for DB. I know he is MORE than capable of producing quality stuff, I just hope we get to see it more haha. While some people might already be bashing his certain involvement in the movie, I'll remain somewhat hopeful it doesn't turn out too bad.

User avatar
majinwarman
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1698
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:50 pm
Location: Freeza Planet 1

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by majinwarman » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:24 am

DainIronfoot wrote:
Asura wrote:Aside from YouTube comments (they're YouTube comments so chances are they have no idea what they're talking about anyway) I haven't seen any disrespectful or senseless bashing of Yamamuro. All of the criticism levied at him is 100% justified in my opinion. Who else do you blame for Dragon Ball's modern designs (from which every other problem stems from) if not the character designer?

Criticism of him with points of analysis etc is definitely 100 percent applicable. However, while anyone's criticism can be justified, I'd hope that people would do so in a respectful manner. Those that do that do it respectfully are not the type of comments I've been seeing or referring to. As for the comments themselves, yes it's mostly from YT, FB, Twitter and IG. It's obvious most of em using these platforms have no idea, but some of these comments on Twitter are from people who at least know "some info" about how it operates. The type of comments that just grind my gears are the one's that are just flat air bashing... or gifs as i mentioned with his head falling off a cliff, or his name getting thrown into a trash can and lit on fire. No reason to it, just pure disrespect. While the character designer can be blamed for these designs, there have been some that seem to blame him for anything that's wrong with Super, such as schedule etc. Like i said, it's just these certain comments that people spew out without knowing what he actually does that are annoying. I frankly believe no one on the staff should be treated that way, regardless of people's criticism's. There are much more proper ways to be critical and get ones point across. I guess I should welcome myself to the Internet again, haha.

Anyways, I'm not the biggest fan of Yammy (with these new designs), but like i mentioned in my initial post, I know how hard it can be to do what he does. I guess you could say I've witnessed the effects flat bashing can do to an artist/animator. It's not easy, and while I constantly hope some sort of improvement is coming, I'll respect the man regardless for all he has done/does for DB. I know he is MORE than capable of producing quality stuff, I just hope we get to see it more haha. While some people might already be bashing his certain involvement in the movie, I'll remain somewhat hopeful it doesn't turn out too bad.
I don't think he is the worst thing on Super but I will criticize him if there's clear issues with his work. I'm not going to call for his job because that's wrong. But, I don't really mind him.
Majinwarman
So I'm 'evil', huh? Interesting."
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
TheSaiyanGod
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1422
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:34 pm

What are the chances that Vegeta's eyes on ED are a mistake?

Well, he's on the side of UI Goku, and prominently compared to the other participants. Not to mention that his eyes seem to have the same style and shading of UI Goku's eyes, with a different color than usual SSB.
He also has pupils in SSB, something that had never happened before in any ED or DBS episode.
Goku and Vegeta are also the only ones who have '' original '' gear, the others are just re-used from the TOEI website

In addition, it has an image of Vegeta SSJ that is very similar to SSB Vegeta of ED, both made by Yamamuro

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Not to mention that apparently, in EP 126, we will have Yamamuro himself. Precisely in the episode in which it is said to Vegeta to 'surpass even a God'. I do not believe that those eyes made by Yamamuro are just '' mistakes ''

User avatar
cuartas
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:16 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by cuartas » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:59 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:Not to mention that apparently, in EP 126, we will have Yamamuro himself. Precisely in the episode in which it is said to Vegeta to 'surpass even a God'. I do not believe that those eyes made by Yamamuro are just '' mistakes ''
As supervisor or key animator?

User avatar
BlueBasilisk
I Live Here
Posts: 3061
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:16 pm

cuartas wrote:
TheSaiyanGod wrote:Not to mention that apparently, in EP 126, we will have Yamamuro himself. Precisely in the episode in which it is said to Vegeta to 'surpass even a God'. I do not believe that those eyes made by Yamamuro are just '' mistakes ''
As supervisor or key animator?
Storyboard:

Script: Ayumu Hisao
Storyboard: Yoshitaka Yashima, Tadayoshi Yamamuro
Director: Takao Iwai
Animation Supervisors: Tsutomu Ono, Yasuhiro Namatame

User avatar
TheSaiyanGod
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1422
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:50 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:
cuartas wrote:
TheSaiyanGod wrote:Not to mention that apparently, in EP 126, we will have Yamamuro himself. Precisely in the episode in which it is said to Vegeta to 'surpass even a God'. I do not believe that those eyes made by Yamamuro are just '' mistakes ''
As supervisor or key animator?
Storyboard:

Script: Ayumu Hisao
Storyboard: Yoshitaka Yashima, Tadayoshi Yamamuro
Director: Takao Iwai
Animation Supervisors: Tsutomu Ono, Yasuhiro Namatame
But if Yamamuro, who is apparently so busy (especially with the new DB movie) will be on the team of the EP 126, is because this EP really is something important, right? After all, he worked at few EPS in DBS

User avatar
ArchedThunder
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5711
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:03 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by ArchedThunder » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:40 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
But if Yamamuro, who is apparently so busy (especially with the new DB movie) will be on the team of the EP 126, is because this EP really is something important, right? After all, he worked at few EPS in DBS
That or he's just talking it upon himself to help Yashima who has also been incredibly busy.

Post Reply