Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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JulieYBM
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:26 pm

cuartas wrote:Yep, the eternal animation friendly discussion.
I'm wondering, isn't this trend doing any damage to the industry? at least is doing it to the manga industry, forcing their creators to make ultra simpler characters in order to be considered to become an anime and such.
Instead of spending time on drawing overly on-model key frames key animators are now going to be transferring that effort into their number of drawings and layouts.

When Idol M@ster: Cinderella Girls was in production the main animators were designing very detailed costumes and then struggling to animate them. With the series having a short production schedule everyone on staff struggled very hard and the broadcast for the second cour of the series had to be delayed to readjust the schedule. Heavy amounts of detail is a double edged sword. Kouno Megumi's drawings are incredible, but that doesn't mean everyone can replicate them.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by AnimeNation101 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:29 pm

dnavenom wrote:I`m starting to think that TOEI have no idea how to continue. I honestly fear another OnePieceXDB mix. Those lines almost look inked by hand to me :) Maybe only the color is added digitally? I have to agree that the background doesn`t mix with the actual animation of the characters. Does anyone have any info what`s happening there and why are these mixed signals coming from them. The only thing I like is the unicolor hair. Who the f shaded the black hair so absurdly...Probably Yamamuro trying to interpret Toriyama better again. Why does everyone want to change this anime, can`t they just make Buu arc animation with a GOOD new story?
Animation? Thats not what people are even complaining about. Its the art styles that people are fighting over. Its kinda hypocritical that you ask why everyone want to change the anime and then proceed to ask them to change back to a certain style that wasn't even the original style
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by AnimeNation101 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:32 pm

cuartas wrote:Yep, the eternal animation friendly discussion.
I'm wondering, isn't this trend doing any damage to the industry? at least is doing it to the manga industry, forcing their creators to make ultra simpler characters in order to be considered to become an anime and such.
Name some instances where that has happened
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:50 am

I guess we can all now look forward to Yuya Takahashi's contributions on the film(Translation of this tweet by Herms).
Yuya Takahashi wrote:Well done, Super!! Thank you for letting me participate! I'll do my best on the movie too!

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Firebolt » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:05 am

JazzMazz wrote:I guess we can all now look forward to Yuya Takahashi's contributions on the film(Translation of this tweet by Herms).
Yuya Takahashi wrote:Well done, Super!! Thank you for letting me participate! I'll do my best on the movie too!
Makes sense considering the huge amounts of praise he's been getting from fans.

I hope he delivers a longer and more action-heavy cut than his cut in FnF.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Guesswhoo » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:50 am

From what I understand, simpler design doen't directly lead to a less detailed finished product. Simple design allow for animator to make their work shine and allow the uses of exaggerated movement without fully going off model (like Naoki Tate for DBS) unlike the yamamuro design where the struggle is always about staying on model due to the standard art being so high.
The trailer/teaser was amazing ! I couldn't believe it, the smooth and bouncy feeling of the animation makes my imagination go wild with fight scene (so much possibility!!). I fully except some sick move from this movie.
It isn't even 1 min long and you already see so much happening (Goku little jump is somehow entertaining to watch) unlike RoF which needed to spoil us a good chunck of the non-CGI battle scene to convey just as much. While Goku certainly look devoid of shading and some form (which don't bother me personally), he never looked so lively :clap: , also the "new vilain" is chock full of detail.
I'm really looking forward to what every animator will give us (especially Takahashi and Shida) and I really really hope that they stick to this kind of simple design in the future or that Yamamuro will learn plenty from this for his own design.

The only flaw I find here, and I believe it is why some people get the childlish/One piece/Pokemon sun moon feeling which they give to the animation, is how Goku looks so relaxed, this truly kills the tension for a supposed "new vilain" unlike every other movie where Goku gave us the serious face or the serious smirk.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:49 am

So this is Yamamuro correcting Takahashi in Episode 13:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

And Yamamuro correcting Takahashi in Episode 131:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
It's... an improvement.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by KameNinja45 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:56 am

Guesswhoo wrote:The only flaw I find here, and I believe it is why some people get the childlish/One piece/Pokemon sun moon feeling which they give to the animation, is how Goku looks so relaxed, this truly kills the tension for a supposed "new vilain" unlike every other movie where Goku gave us the serious face or the serious smirk.
Goku does look serious in the trailer, during the shots of Goku's eye, him rushing forward before the title pops up, and even him assuming his fighting stance. He only looks relaxed when he's bouncing around.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by majinwarman » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:32 am

Lord Beerus wrote:So this is Yamamuro correcting Takahashi in Episode 13:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

And Yamamuro correcting Takahashi in Episode 131:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
It's... an improvement.
If you can call that an improvement.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by iAnimationLover_ » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:33 am

Lord Beerus wrote:So this is Yamamuro correcting Takahashi in Episode 13:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

And Yamamuro correcting Takahashi in Episode 131:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
It's... an improvement.
But I dont think Takahashi was drawing in his current style back then. He couldve been sticking much closer to the model sheets.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by dnavenom » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:55 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
dnavenom wrote:I`m starting to think that TOEI have no idea how to continue. I honestly fear another OnePieceXDB mix. Those lines almost look inked by hand to me :) Maybe only the color is added digitally? I have to agree that the background doesn`t mix with the actual animation of the characters. Does anyone have any info what`s happening there and why are these mixed signals coming from them. The only thing I like is the unicolor hair. Who the f shaded the black hair so absurdly...Probably Yamamuro trying to interpret Toriyama better again. Why does everyone want to change this anime, can`t they just make Buu arc animation with a GOOD new story?
Animation? Thats not what people are even complaining about. Its the art styles that people are fighting over. Its kinda hypocritical that you ask why everyone want to change the anime and then proceed to ask them to change back to a certain style that wasn't even the original style
I`m a normal fan dude :) Just saying what I like in case any of the staff trows an eye here and reads opinions. I`ve no hopes after seeing the trailer, but still. More Shida / Takahashi please and less Tate!

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Asura » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:58 pm

majinwarman wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:So this is Yamamuro correcting Takahashi in Episode 13:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

And Yamamuro correcting Takahashi in Episode 131:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
It's... an improvement.
If you can call that an improvement.
What are people's problems with this shot exactly? Looks great to me.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by paulo89988 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:01 pm

Asura wrote:
majinwarman wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:So this is Yamamuro correcting Takahashi in Episode 13:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

And Yamamuro correcting Takahashi in Episode 131:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
It's... an improvement.
If you can call that an improvement.
What are people's problems with this shot exactly? Looks great to me.
I think so too, but so many people hate it because it was partially corrected by Yamamuro, and apparently people here have to hate anything that has Yamamuro's name in it. It is annoying and it needs to stop.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by dnavenom » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:20 pm

Yamamuro makes that horrid highlight and rounds the shadows, face and generally everything. There are no highlights this time thank the almighty, still the shading of the face looks mediocre. There is no curve to the eyes from this shot and so on. With all that said it`s decent shot but not nearly good enough for the last episode of DBS.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by KameNinja45 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:18 pm

I'm so confused, that shot looks great? I don't see how Yamamuro has ruined it at all.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Asura » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:21 pm

dnavenom wrote:Yamamuro makes that horrid highlight and rounds the shadows, face and generally everything. There are no highlights this time thank the almighty, still the shading of the face looks mediocre. There is no curve to the eyes from this shot and so on. With all that said it`s decent shot but not nearly good enough for the last episode of DBS.
You must have some ridiculous standards if a shot like that isn't "nearly good enough". Even with Yamamuro's corrections it looks better than 90% of the entire show, and looks like it could have come out of a Z movie.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by DainIronfoot » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:45 pm

paulo89988 wrote:
Asura wrote:
majinwarman wrote: If you can call that an improvement.
What are people's problems with this shot exactly? Looks great to me.
I think so too, but so many people hate it because it was partially corrected by Yamamuro, and apparently people here have to hate anything that has Yamamuro's name in it. It is annoying and it needs to stop.
Guaranteed if the teaser for the new movie was done by Yamamuro (exactly how it was shown) the same people (not all but definitely a group) who atm think it's the best thing DB has shown in years would instantly say it looks absolute garbage. It's simply the fact that the "mindlessly bash anything Yamamuro's name is on" mindset has been growing. Thankfully, not everyone who dislikes his work displays why without proper reasons, but there is just that particular group who will make anything that he does seem like a product straight from the devil himself. I've come to just ignore these people, and it really has made me feel so much better lol.

I find that particular shot of Goku gorgeous. Has Takahashi and slight Yamamuro features. I can't wait to see it in motion too because Takahashi's flips seem to be a signature of his haha.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Amir » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:24 pm

dnavenom wrote:Yamamuro makes that horrid highlight and rounds the shadows, face and generally everything. There are no highlights this time thank the almighty, still the shading of the face looks mediocre. There is no curve to the eyes from this shot and so on. With all that said it`s decent shot but not nearly good enough for the last episode of DBS.
What? The shading on the face looks good, eyes don't have to be curved all the time especially with base Goku. A decent shot? It's well drawn and very detailed, looks better than almost everything in Super and Z, like something from Z movie 13.

Is that all the reasons you have? No curved eyes and ''mediocre'' face shading (seriously, what's wrong with the face shading?), is that why the correction is bad?
That's beyond me.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by majinwarman » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:34 pm

DainIronfoot wrote:
paulo89988 wrote:
Asura wrote:
What are people's problems with this shot exactly? Looks great to me.
I think so too, but so many people hate it because it was partially corrected by Yamamuro, and apparently people here have to hate anything that has Yamamuro's name in it. It is annoying and it needs to stop.
Guaranteed if the teaser for the new movie was done by Yamamuro (exactly how it was shown) the same people (not all but definitely a group) who atm think it's the best thing DB has shown in years would instantly say it looks absolute garbage. It's simply the fact that the "mindlessly bash anything Yamamuro's name is on" mindset has been growing. Thankfully, not everyone who dislikes his work displays why without proper reasons, but there is just that particular group who will make anything that he does seem like a product straight from the devil himself. I've come to just ignore these people, and it really has made me feel so much better lol.

I find that particular shot of Goku gorgeous. Has Takahashi and slight Yamamuro features. I can't wait to see it in motion too because Takahashi's flips seem to be a signature of his haha.
The reason why I said that is that I personally think that Takahashi shouldn't need to corrected in that shot. I don't hate Yamamuro at all but I do have problems with his corrections he does to people's work.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by dnavenom » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:47 pm

It`s blasphemy that anyone is daring to correct Takahashi! :) Don`t get your nuts in a shell, it`s decent shot, but it can be a bit more angular. Something like this:
Image

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