Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by iAnimationLover_ » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:57 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
cuartas wrote: it's ded
Everyone's on the Dragonball Sakuga discord. :lol:
Is that why this thread has mostly been not very active? Never used discord but it looks like it is more chat based? Not sure it is my thing to be honest.
why are you not using discord

And yes, thats one of the reasons. At least, I think thats one of the reasons. It could just be the entire reason

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:22 pm

Decided to go ahead and make an SSG album too.

Btw noticed since it's comeback in the ToP, a few instances where Goku's boots don't have the white trim, any chance this will be fixed on the Blu-rays?

---
iAnimationLover_ wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: Everyone's on the Dragonball Sakuga discord. :lol:
Is that why this thread has mostly been not very active? Never used discord but it looks like it is more chat based? Not sure it is my thing to be honest.
why are you not using discord

And yes, thats one of the reasons. At least, I think thats one of the reasons. It could just be the entire reason
Is there somesort of law that I have to use it?

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by cuartas » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:06 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Decided to go ahead and make an SSG album too.
Watching SSG in 114 vs early SSG is like.... fuck.
A lot we have missed :?

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by iAnimationLover_ » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:20 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Decided to go ahead and make an SSG album too.

Btw noticed since it's comeback in the ToP, a few instances where Goku's boots don't have the white trim, any chance this will be fixed on the Blu-rays?

---
iAnimationLover_ wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Is that why this thread has mostly been not very active? Never used discord but it looks like it is more chat based? Not sure it is my thing to be honest.
why are you not using discord

And yes, thats one of the reasons. At least, I think thats one of the reasons. It could just be the entire reason
Is there somesort of law that I have to use it?
Yes.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:27 pm

cuartas wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Decided to go ahead and make an SSG album too.
Watching SSG in 114 vs early SSG is like.... fuck.
A lot we have missed :?
Yeah! #114 is too depressing man, shown us what could have been all along! Ajay was right any improvement shown by Yamamuro is still a far cry of where he actually needs to be.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by FartiliciousManChild » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:37 am

Guys, just a question regarding Super in general, as a whole, how would you compare this Super to early Super (disregarding the BoG and RoF arc, not the movies though)? What would you rate Super nowadays in it's entirety?
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:24 am

#40:

Really poor way to finish the tournament. Having Yashima on the "finale" seemed odd but there was very little action, still though Yashima doing the finale... his art is just never get used too, especially base Goku. He also tends to draw SSGSS Goku without the bang, which like the baseball ep makes it odd when he gets corrected in a shot with the bang, one moment Goku doesn't have the bang the next he does...lol.

Overall the U6 arc has honestly been a disappointment on this re-watch, #38 was the only stand out one and even then that is nothing special compared to other episodes, hell there were better individual episodes in the retellings than anything in the U6 arc. Just goes to show how boring standard tournament are, seemed not much creativity to be had as opposed to what we're getting in the ToP.

I am interested in how things in the Trunks arc hold up, ~2 months till that starts up.

-----
FartiliciousManChild wrote:Guys, just a question regarding Super in general, as a whole, how would you compare this Super to early Super (disregarding the BoG and RoF arc, not the movies though)? What would you rate Super nowadays in it's entirety?
Watching the current arc simultaneously with the U6 arc via dub weekly... it is no contest really current arc is 100% better in every aspect, even "meh" episodes of this arc are better than most from that arc. The supervision, animation, consistency in art, the filter, direction, SB even the music all sooo much better.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by FartiliciousManChild » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:03 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:#40:

Really poor way to finish the tournament. Having Yashima on the "finale" seemed odd but there was very little action, still though Yashima doing the finale... his art is just never get used too, especially base Goku. He also tends to draw SSGSS Goku without the bang, which like the baseball ep makes it odd when he gets corrected in a shot with the bang, one moment Goku doesn't have the bang the next he does...lol.

Overall the U6 arc has honestly been a disappointment on this re-watch, #38 was the only stand out one and even then that is nothing special compared to other episodes, hell there were better individual episodes in the retellings than anything in the U6 arc. Just goes to show how boring standard tournament are, seemed not much creativity to be had as opposed to what we're getting in the ToP.

I am interested in how things in the Trunks arc hold up, ~2 months till that starts up.

-----
FartiliciousManChild wrote:Guys, just a question regarding Super in general, as a whole, how would you compare this Super to early Super (disregarding the BoG and RoF arc, not the movies though)? What would you rate Super nowadays in it's entirety?
Watching the current arc simultaneously with the U6 arc via dub weekly... it is no contest really current arc is 100% better in every aspect, even "meh" episodes of this arc are better than most from that arc. The supervision, animation, consistency in art, the filter, direction, SB even the music all sooo much better.
I agree with everything you stated. U6 was indeed pretty bland aside from 38. I think this especially shines through now we have the TOP arc going on at the same time, another tournament.

For my own rating on Super so far; i would dare to say that the level we're at right now quality wise is a solid 7,8 for me, very close to DBZ level which i would give a 8,5. U6 arc seperately was a 6 for me, FT arc seperately was a 7,7.
If we keep getting the same quality as we've been getting since the Goku vs Jiren fight happened i'd definitely change my rating to a solid 8 in a few weeks.

Everything after Goku vs Jiren up until this point has been a step up in quality, i hope this kind of quality can be maintained throughout the whole series from here on out though, it might not since i still remember Goku vs Jiren to be stated as the beginning of the climax, which means we're still in the climax. So what does that mean? Does it mean we're going to see a downgrade in overall quality again after this so called 'climax' ends (like with the FT arc climax with 66, that was clearly just a one night stand)?

My guess would be: no.

Since this climax has been going on for a few episodes now, and if they're able to produce this quality stuff for like 3 more weeks, then for me it's pretty much confirmed that the schedule for Super is able to maintain this new higher standard and that we've reached greater heights for the entire rest of Super (unless something bad happens to the Studio/animators/show ofc).

So is this upgrade in overall quality a result of the climax (resulting this upgrade to just be for like a few episodes) or is it due to an actual better standard schedule? I hope it's the second one.


Opinions/thoughts anyone?
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:03 am

The improvement in schedule is simply cause Toei is producing less shows than before. A few good staff who were busy before have come over to help out and that is what has benefited Super. It won't last long though cause it is Toei and they will make more anime sooner or later and resources will be stretched like always. But, yeah you should at the very least expect the finale fight to be good.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by FartiliciousManChild » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:46 am

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:The improvement in schedule is simply cause Toei is producing less shows than before. A few good staff who were busy before have come over to help out and that is what has benefited Super. It won't last long though cause it is Toei and they will make more anime sooner or later and resources will be stretched like always. But, yeah you should at the very least expect the finale fight to be good.
So you're expecting an animation downgrade later on? Could this mean we can expect a return of U6 tournament arc quality? Isn't the schedule supposed to get better as the show progresses though? All these questions..

I do remember One Piece to have complaints about it's animation lately though and i doubt it had bad animation for the first 100 episodes (i'm not that knowledgable on One piece so excuse me if i'm wrong on this), so i guess One Piece would be a good example of a show going from good to worse..? Is it? idk. But anyway i guess that if this phenomenon happened with One Piece it might also happen with Super :?:
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Asura » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:54 am

FartiliciousManChild wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:#40:

Really poor way to finish the tournament. Having Yashima on the "finale" seemed odd but there was very little action, still though Yashima doing the finale... his art is just never get used too, especially base Goku. He also tends to draw SSGSS Goku without the bang, which like the baseball ep makes it odd when he gets corrected in a shot with the bang, one moment Goku doesn't have the bang the next he does...lol.

Overall the U6 arc has honestly been a disappointment on this re-watch, #38 was the only stand out one and even then that is nothing special compared to other episodes, hell there were better individual episodes in the retellings than anything in the U6 arc. Just goes to show how boring standard tournament are, seemed not much creativity to be had as opposed to what we're getting in the ToP.

I am interested in how things in the Trunks arc hold up, ~2 months till that starts up.

-----
FartiliciousManChild wrote:Guys, just a question regarding Super in general, as a whole, how would you compare this Super to early Super (disregarding the BoG and RoF arc, not the movies though)? What would you rate Super nowadays in it's entirety?
Watching the current arc simultaneously with the U6 arc via dub weekly... it is no contest really current arc is 100% better in every aspect, even "meh" episodes of this arc are better than most from that arc. The supervision, animation, consistency in art, the filter, direction, SB even the music all sooo much better.
I agree with everything you stated. U6 was indeed pretty bland aside from 38. I think this especially shines through now we have the TOP arc going on at the same time, another tournament.

For my own rating on Super so far; i would dare to say that the level we're at right now quality wise is a solid 7,8 for me, very close to DBZ level which i would give a 8,5. U6 arc seperately was a 6 for me, FT arc seperately was a 7,7.
If we keep getting the same quality as we've been getting since the Goku vs Jiren fight happened i'd definitely change my rating to a solid 8 in a few weeks.

Everything after Goku vs Jiren up until this point has been a step up in quality, i hope this kind of quality can be maintained throughout the whole series from here on out though, it might not since i still remember Goku vs Jiren to be stated as the beginning of the climax, which means we're still in the climax. So what does that mean? Does it mean we're going to see a downgrade in overall quality again after this so called 'climax' ends (like with the FT arc climax with 66, that was clearly just a one night stand)?

My guess would be: no.

Since this climax has been going on for a few episodes now, and if they're able to produce this quality stuff for like 3 more weeks, then for me it's pretty much confirmed that the schedule for Super is able to maintain this new higher standard and that we've reached greater heights for the entire rest of Super (unless something bad happens to the Studio/animators/show ofc).

So is this upgrade in overall quality a result of the climax (resulting this upgrade to just be for like a few episodes) or is it due to an actual better standard schedule? I hope it's the second one.


Opinions/thoughts anyone?
You're saying the current arc is only .1 better than the FT arc in terms of quality?

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by perucho1990 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:57 am

Idk if its just me but I noticed the pattern of having an average looking episode followed by a good one ever since the TV Special.

Episode 111: Average/Conservative animation and art

Episode 112: Good animation

Episode 113: Average

Episode 114: Excellent

Episode 115: Mediocre

Episode 116: It looks it could be really good

Episode 117: Might be average

Episode 118: Can be as good as Episode 114.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:14 pm

FartiliciousManChild wrote: So you're expecting an animation downgrade later on? Could this mean we can expect a return of U6 tournament arc quality? Isn't the schedule supposed to get better as the show progresses though? All these questions..
Long running series go through phases. There is no set rule that says it will keep on getting better as it progresses. There is no production like that, atleast not to my knowledge.

There is a big announcement coming for Super and it will most likely affect the TV series. Even ignoring that unless Toei suddenly become outstanding at management, you can expect them to do what they have been doing for years. That is produce more series and stretch their in-house staff as much as they can. And, DBS' track record of securing the talented people have never been good to begin with outside of a few exceptions like Tate and the director Karasawa Kazuya. So, again I highly doubt all the good people it currently has will stick around as a regular. We will see though, but I expect a drop in quality for sure. I don't know to what extent. Only time will tell.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by emperior » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:22 pm

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:
FartiliciousManChild wrote: So you're expecting an animation downgrade later on? Could this mean we can expect a return of U6 tournament arc quality? Isn't the schedule supposed to get better as the show progresses though? All these questions..
Long running series go through phases. There is no set rule that says it will keep on getting better as it progresses. There is no production like that, atleast not to my knowledge.

There is a big announcement coming for Super and it will most likely affect the TV series. Even ignoring that unless Toei suddenly become outstanding at management, you can expect them to do what they have been doing for years. That is produce more series and stretch their in-house staff as much as they can. And, DBS' track record of securing the talented people have never been good to begin with outside of a few exceptions like Tate and the director Karasawa Kazuya. So, again I highly doubt all the good people it currently has will stick around as a regular. We will see though, but I expect a drop in quality for sure. I don't know to what extent. Only time will tell.
Wouldn't Super at least get to DBZ-levels as for its scheduling? Also, shouldn't Toei prioritize Super considering its the best-selling franchise in Japan at the moment, and shouldn't this attract more animators?
I may be too hopeful, but I'm quite positive about Super's future being bright - or at least brighter than before. I think they will be able to provide us some very good arcs after the ToP, considering we are most likely not getting another tournament after it, which means not every episode will have action.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:30 pm

emperior wrote:
Saikyo no Senshi wrote:
FartiliciousManChild wrote: So you're expecting an animation downgrade later on? Could this mean we can expect a return of U6 tournament arc quality? Isn't the schedule supposed to get better as the show progresses though? All these questions..
Long running series go through phases. There is no set rule that says it will keep on getting better as it progresses. There is no production like that, atleast not to my knowledge.

There is a big announcement coming for Super and it will most likely affect the TV series. Even ignoring that unless Toei suddenly become outstanding at management, you can expect them to do what they have been doing for years. That is produce more series and stretch their in-house staff as much as they can. And, DBS' track record of securing the talented people have never been good to begin with outside of a few exceptions like Tate and the director Karasawa Kazuya. So, again I highly doubt all the good people it currently has will stick around as a regular. We will see though, but I expect a drop in quality for sure. I don't know to what extent. Only time will tell.
Wouldn't Super at least get to DBZ-levels as for its scheduling? Also, shouldn't Toei prioritize Super considering its the best-selling franchise in Japan at the moment, and shouldn't this attract more animators?
I may be too hopeful, but I'm quite positive about Super's future being bright - or at least brighter than before. I think they will be able to provide us some very good arcs after the ToP, considering we are most likely not getting another tournament after it, which means not every episode will have action.
There's no financial need to prioritize Dragon Ball Super. Instead of pushing a weekly series that will not end for half a decade they can spend their talent on shorter projects or films. Also, Dragon Ball has a terrible schedule and a terrible character designer damned near nobody likes artistically or as a human being, so that repels talent.
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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by iAnimationLover_ » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:38 pm

perucho1990 wrote:Idk if its just me but I noticed the pattern of having an average looking episode followed by a good one ever since the TV Special.

Episode 111: Average/Conservative animation and art

Episode 112: Good animation

Episode 113: Average

Episode 114: Excellent

Episode 115: Mediocre

Episode 116: It looks it could be really good

Episode 117: Might be average

Episode 118: Can be as good as Episode 114.
117 is Yashima. The last episode he soloed was 108, giving nine weeks inbetween. You'd expect a better than average Yashima, as that is the biggest gap in between episodes he has gotten on his entire run on super. But he 2nd KA'd and was an assistant supervisor on episode 109, was a part of 113's storyboard, and also storyboarded the entirety of 115. So it could be a rushed or normal Yoshitaka. Either way he has been doing a lot for super, and I appreciate it.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by Asura » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:24 pm

JulieYBM wrote:and a terrible character designer damned near nobody likes artistically or as a human being, so that repels talent.
Daaamn man, that sounds harsh.

But I did just do some research on Yamamuro and yeah, turns out he's a bit of an arrogant dick, huh?
perucho1990 wrote:Idk if its just me but I noticed the pattern of having an average looking episode followed by a good one ever since the TV Special.

Episode 111: Average/Conservative animation and art

Episode 112: Good animation

Episode 113: Average

Episode 114: Excellent

Episode 115: Mediocre

Episode 116: It looks it could be really good

Episode 117: Might be average

Episode 118: Can be as good as Episode 114.

Without spoiling anything about the contents of 118, can you say why 118 might look as good as 114? Is Takahashi doing it?

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by perucho1990 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:31 pm

Just basing on what Ajay said in his YT account about episode 118 staff. :think:

Tate will do that episode iirc.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by ArchedThunder » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:51 pm

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:The improvement in schedule is simply cause Toei is producing less shows than before. A few good staff who were busy before have come over to help out and that is what has benefited Super. It won't last long though cause it is Toei and they will make more anime sooner or later and resources will be stretched like always. But, yeah you should at the very least expect the finale fight to be good.
Uh, no, that's only one part of it, we just came off of Toei producing a bunch of shows as well and Super was doing just fine. I don't know why people always have to put down the improvements the show has had.

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Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0 - Episode 100

Post by FartiliciousManChild » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:41 pm

Asura wrote:
FartiliciousManChild wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:#40:

Really poor way to finish the tournament. Having Yashima on the "finale" seemed odd but there was very little action, still though Yashima doing the finale... his art is just never get used too, especially base Goku. He also tends to draw SSGSS Goku without the bang, which like the baseball ep makes it odd when he gets corrected in a shot with the bang, one moment Goku doesn't have the bang the next he does...lol.

Overall the U6 arc has honestly been a disappointment on this re-watch, #38 was the only stand out one and even then that is nothing special compared to other episodes, hell there were better individual episodes in the retellings than anything in the U6 arc. Just goes to show how boring standard tournament are, seemed not much creativity to be had as opposed to what we're getting in the ToP.

I am interested in how things in the Trunks arc hold up, ~2 months till that starts up.

-----



Watching the current arc simultaneously with the U6 arc via dub weekly... it is no contest really current arc is 100% better in every aspect, even "meh" episodes of this arc are better than most from that arc. The supervision, animation, consistency in art, the filter, direction, SB even the music all sooo much better.
I agree with everything you stated. U6 was indeed pretty bland aside from 38. I think this especially shines through now we have the TOP arc going on at the same time, another tournament.

For my own rating on Super so far; i would dare to say that the level we're at right now quality wise is a solid 7,8 for me, very close to DBZ level which i would give a 8,5. U6 arc seperately was a 6 for me, FT arc seperately was a 7,7.
If we keep getting the same quality as we've been getting since the Goku vs Jiren fight happened i'd definitely change my rating to a solid 8 in a few weeks.

Everything after Goku vs Jiren up until this point has been a step up in quality, i hope this kind of quality can be maintained throughout the whole series from here on out though, it might not since i still remember Goku vs Jiren to be stated as the beginning of the climax, which means we're still in the climax. So what does that mean? Does it mean we're going to see a downgrade in overall quality again after this so called 'climax' ends (like with the FT arc climax with 66, that was clearly just a one night stand)?

My guess would be: no.

Since this climax has been going on for a few episodes now, and if they're able to produce this quality stuff for like 3 more weeks, then for me it's pretty much confirmed that the schedule for Super is able to maintain this new higher standard and that we've reached greater heights for the entire rest of Super (unless something bad happens to the Studio/animators/show ofc).

So is this upgrade in overall quality a result of the climax (resulting this upgrade to just be for like a few episodes) or is it due to an actual better standard schedule? I hope it's the second one.


Opinions/thoughts anyone?
You're saying the current arc is only .1 better than the FT arc in terms of quality?
Yes, i prefered the villian story in the FT arc compared to the TOP arc's story which is just a tournament (with a lot of fodder in it btw). Guess i'll give it a 8.0 right now in hindsight.
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