Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Sonicjamareiz]

An interesting article on WT. It had bad animation, really ? http://www.animemaru.com/world-trigger- ... /#comments

Its almost like it's a joke to them . It does ease my heart about Super's production knowing that other popular series are getting the same treatment.

[JulieYBM]

An interesting article on WT. It had bad animation, really ? http://www.animemaru.com/world-trigger- ... /#comments

Its almost like
its a joke to them . It does ease my heart about Super's production knowing that other popular series are getting the same treatment.

Anime Maru is a news satire blog. Everything is a joke to them.

[Wezenheim]

An interesting article on WT. It had bad animation, really ? http://www.animemaru.com/world-trigger- ... /#comments

Its almost like
its a joke to them . It does ease my heart about Super's production knowing that other popular series are getting the same treatment.

Anime Maru is a news satire blog. Everything is a joke to them.

I trust them. They helped to make my waifu real.

[Sonicjamareiz]

An interesting article on WT. It had bad animation, really ? http://www.animemaru.com/world-trigger- ... /#comments

It's almost like it's a joke to them It does ease my heart about Super's production knowing that other popular series are getting the same treatment.

Anime Maru is a news satire blog. Everything is a joke to them.

Oh okay that makes a hell of a lot more sense now

[dhaval_dongre]

From episode 35 onwards the art and animation has been better and more consistent. I heard some fans complaining about ep.43's art. I just don't get it. It wasn't out of this world but it was decent. Also episode 42 was really nice. I hope that they keep on improving from here onwards.

[ArchedThunder]

From episode 35 onwards the art and animation has been better and more consistent. I heard some fans complaining about ep.43's art. I just don't get it. It wasn't out of this world but it was decent. Also episode 42 was really nice. I hope that they keep on improving from here onwards.

The first half of 43 has some goofy eyes, but nothing too terrible. The second half looks great though, I really like Yoichi Onishi's style, I really hope he sticks around!

[dhaval_dongre]

From episode 35 onwards the art and animation has been better and more consistent. I heard some fans complaining about ep.43's art. I just don't get it. It wasn't out of this world but it was decent. Also episode 42 was really nice. I hope that they keep on improving from here onwards.

The first half of 43 has some goofy eyes, but nothing too terrible. The second half looks great though, I really like Yoichi Onishi's style, I really hope he sticks around!

He came from WT I think. Hope they continue to use the WT staff. Will definitely give the other regular supervisors some breathing space.

[ArchedThunder]

He came from WT I think. Hope they continue to use the WT staff. Will definitely give the other regular supervisors some breathing space.

I'm pretty sure the new norm for the show is going to be having at least 2 animation supervisors on every episode, usually with at least 1 assistant and then a fuck ton of animators under them.

[Sodhi]

Outsourcing in betweens, or outsourcing full scenes?

In betweens of Super are done by TAP and one or two other studios in every episode so far. For full scenes however I am noticing them using less and less TAP but outsourcing is still done almost every episode.

[dhaval_dongre]

What do you guys think about the art and animation from episode 35 onwards and the arc in general. For me both were decent. I wasn't expecting too many OP universe 6 characters or any close fights. The arc turned out to be as I guessed, a set-up for the future arcs and surprisingly another future tournament. Also why did episodes 33 and 34 has poor art ? Its previous episodes had decent art. Was it because of the fact that the staff working on those were the least experienced than the rest ?

[Ajay]

What do you guys think about the art and animation from episode 35 onwards and the arc in general. For me both were decent. I wasn't expecting too many OP universe 6 characters or any close fights. The arc turned out to be as I guessed, a set-up for the future arcs and surprisingly another future tournament. Also why did episodes 33 and 34 has poor art ? Its previous episodes had decent art. Was it because of the fact that the staff working on those were the least experienced than the rest ?

Episode 33 was an interesting one. Its first half was horrendous, and I think they just sacrificed it for the sake of being able to deliver something moderately watchable in the second half. I get the feeling that Toma, and whoever he's paired up with at the time (in this case Kitano), are simply being used to rush out episodes so that key animators can move on to their next jobs more quickly. I think episode 41 is yet another demonstration of this.

Episode 34 is ugly because Yashima doesn't have a very pleasing art style. The animation itself was sort of okay. Things moved in a reasonably pleasing manner, though there were certainly a few instances that made me cringe. For a Yashima episode, it worked okay. He's not the type of supervisor that's ever going to do something great. He solos almost all of his episodes, and this was no exception. It was him and two other animators who produced the entire thing, with a little help from TAP, too. It's yet another move in freeing up time for other animators to work on upcoming episodes. Considering the tiny staff, it was a fine episode.

Episode 35 -- Not a bad episode, but nothing moved. Ultimately, it was 20 minutes of reasonably nice stills or cheap tricks to fake genuine animation. Not particularly offensive, but not great, either.
Episode 36 -- Absolutely fine. Satisfactory movement and art, only really let down by the occasional Shimanuki drawing. He has a habit of making people look like scaled up children in long shots.
Episode 37 -- Wonderful episode. Karasawa's great art is present throughout almost the entire episode, and we get some really great animation during Cabba's Super Saiyan phase. Very few complaints outside of some stiff movement in the first half.
Episode 38 -- Best episode of the arc by an absolute landslide. Wonderful animation, direction, music placement -- everything. Tate injects life into everyone with exaggerated movement and high-frame-count animation. Best fight of the series so far.
Episode 39 -- A big letdown after #38, but reasonably enjoyable all the same. Despite being a total rushjob, brief background animation and some nice Z-esque frame-repetition helps to push it up a little. Loses marks for reusing the same animation twice within one episode, alongside some horribly awkward fight scenes in the first half. Second half is marginally better, and contains a reasonably nice cut as Goku flies off into the air against Hit. For the final fight of the arc, it wasn't great.
Episode 40 -- Typical Yashima solo episode. Bad first half for all of the action, but redeemed in its second half with charming and expressive character art. Serves its purpose, but certainly nothing to write home about.
Episode 41 -- Fine first half, but the second half collapses on itself with a total lack of animation. Embarrassing Powerpoint-like animation for what should have been a majestic reveal for a new dragon.

The arc's animation bobbed up and down fairly predictably throughout. It wasn't particularly well done on the whole, but attempting to animate a tournament with a schedule like Super's was never ever going to go well. Considering this, I'd say they probably did the best they could, with the exception of #39. Toei's just throwing everything they can at this series to keep it up at passable levels. Almost every episode has multiple supervisors and assistants alongside a mass of key animators. It's a race against time and they're trying to pull in as much manpower as possible.

[Fraxiel]

Toei's just throwing everything they can at this series to keep it up at passable levels. Almost every episode has multiple supervisors and assistants alongside a mass of key animators. It's a race against time and they're trying to pull in as much manpower as possible.

I'm kinda new to this animation thing, but could you explain why super's schedule is so messed up? Would really appreciate that. And Hopefully we get a nice episode from next week, and I know Tate is is doing the episode after that. I used to hate Tate but after reading your posts I realized that he is a talented animator and his work is really really good. Hopefully his new episode is going to be awesome!

[Ajay]

I'm kinda new to this animation thing, but could you explain why super's schedule is so messed up? Would really appreciate that. And Hopefully we get a nice episode from next week, and I know Tate is is doing the episode after that. I used to hate Tate but after reading your posts I realized that he is a talented animator and his work is really really good. Hopefully his new episode is going to be awesome!

Sure! The simple answer is: Super has a very poor schedule because it was rushed into production following the success of Resurrection 'F'. It was announced at the tail end of April (the 28th, to be exact), with an air date set for July. That was already quite a worrying sign of how rushed things were going to be.

Things only got worse when we were only just seeing ending storyboards a month before the show would air. The first real preview that we got aired a little over a week before the show began; it was madness. Looking back, we can see that it only showed footage from episodes 1-4, with some preview-exclusive footage of Vados and Champa thrown in there to tease future content. These episodes were likely not even complete at the time, which means episode 5 very likely only had four or five weeks max to be completed. It's not particularly surprising that everything came crashing down. Almost 20 minutes of fighting with a regular number of staff was never going to happen on that kind of schedule. It's why we now have a huge number of staff these days to actually make these types of episodes remotely possible.

Adding more weight to this, Toei ran a "Twitter countdown" prior to the show beginning. They had absolutely nothing to show. They gave us a shot of the ending, then a photo of a TV with the same ending shot on it, and it got more absurd from there on. The fact we didn't even have a logo for several weeks after the show's announcement speaks volumes. They really just wanted to ride the success of the movie as soon as possible -- I don't think the higher ups who forced the idea really had any idea of just how insane that was.

The Battle of Gods arc just about got away with few issues (animation-wise, at least), and actually looks okay in retrospect. But once we hit the Golden Freeza arc, it seemed as though Toei decided to simply sacrifice the arc in an attempt to alleviate issues with the upcoming new content. Unfortunately, they shot themselves in the foot by changing the Universe 6 arc's story very late in the game. We know that key animation was thrown away thanks to tweets by Norio Kanekubo. Kuririn was supposed to be bald, Goku was meant to fight Cabba in episode 38 (that's when Kanekubo turned up, anyway), and most importantly, this was all done and completed months ahead of schedule. For whatever reason, this was all changed, and animation had to be redone to fit the new plot line. I don't know if that's on Toriyama or a higher-up at Toei, but it seemed to really screw things up.

We're now at a point where everything is sort-of holding together, but it occasionally splits at the seams and we get some baffling bad stuff. Super's production is a real mystery that a lot of us are desperately trying to make sense of with every little bit of information we can find. I really hope we get a proper explanation of what went on at some point down the line.

[ArchedThunder]

Wait, Goku was supposed to fight Cabba? Never heard that one.
If true that doesn't line up with the manga either, so if he was supposed to that sounds like it might have been Toriyama making a change at the last second.
Hopefully they don't throw stuff out anymore, these past 2 episodes where really solid and the NEP for this week's looks really good, so hopefully we're past the worst of it.

[Ajay]

Wait, Goku was supposed to fight Cabba? Never heard that one.

Mostly conjecture on my part, but an animator doing an action cut featuring both Goku and Cabba in action puts a lot of weight behind it.

Spoiler:

If it were multiple animators tweeting these, then you could definitely argue that the Goku section could be from another fight, but it seems unlikely that one animator would be handling two separate action cuts like that.

I'm not entirely sure what "TIME" section refers to at the top of the sheet, but one is 3 and the other is 4. Gonna take a wild guess and assume they're close together.

Herms argued that it could be from a scrapped opening, but the tweet itself specifically mentions "episode", and I can't imagine that Kuririn cut being in an OP.

[dhaval_dongre]

Toei's just throwing everything they can at this series to keep it up at passable levels. Almost every episode has multiple supervisors and assistants alongside a mass of key animators. It's a race against time and they're trying to pull in as much manpower as possible.

We did saw that in episodes 42 and 43. It had way too many people working on it. There's no doubt that the schedule is very tight and its a race against time so they are trying to add a lot of people to complete the episodes on time. The good news is that we now have the WT staff now and episodes 42 and 43 looked really nice, but I wonder for how long can they continue this. I remember the newbies interview by Hayashida and he did mention that they are interested in doing a db movie. I hope that they take a break in the future, make a movie and then continue on with the series. Because the series is getting a lot of bad PR because of its animation and making a decent looking nice movie can finally add some positivity to this franchise. But at the end of the day, this is just wishful thinking.

[dhaval_dongre]

Wait, Goku was supposed to fight Cabba? Never heard that one.

Mostly conjecture on my part, but an animator doing an action cut featuring both Goku and Cabba in action puts a lot of weight behind it.

Spoiler:

If it were multiple animators tweeting these, then you could definitely argue that the Goku section could be from another fight, but it seems unlikely that one animator would be handling two separate action cuts like that.

I'm not entirely sure what "TIME" section refers to at the top of the sheet, but one is 3 and the other is 4. Gonna take a wild guess and assume they're close together.

Herms argued that it could be from a scrapped opening, but the tweet itself specifically mentions "episode", and I can't imagine that Kuririn cut being in an OP.

But anyway we ended up with Vegeta vs Cabba and that was an absolutely fantastic episode.

[Fraxiel]

I'm kinda new to this animation thing, but could you explain why super's schedule is so messed up? Would really appreciate that. And Hopefully we get a nice episode from next week, and I know Tate is is doing the episode after that. I used to hate Tate but after reading your posts I realized that he is a talented animator and his work is really really good. Hopefully his new episode is going to be awesome!

Sure! The simple answer is: Super has a very poor schedule because it was rushed into production following the success of Resurrection 'F'. It was announced at the tail end of April (the 28th, to be exact), with an air date set for July. That was already quite a worrying sign of how rushed things were going to be.

Things only got worse when we were only just seeing ending storyboards a month before the show would air. The first real preview that we got aired a little over a week before the show began; it was madness. Looking back, we can see that it only showed footage from episodes 1-4, with some preview-exclusive footage of Vados and Champa thrown in there to tease future content. These episodes were likely not even complete at the time, which means episode 5 very likely only had four or five weeks max to be completed. It's not particularly surprising that everything came crashing down. Almost 20 minutes of fighting with a regular number of staff was never going to happen on that kind of schedule. It's why we now have a huge number of staff these days to actually make these types of episodes remotely possible.

Adding more weight to this, Toei ran a "Twitter countdown" prior to the show beginning. They had absolutely nothing to show. They gave us a shot of the ending, then a photo of a TV with the same ending shot on it, and it got more absurd from there on. The fact we didn't even have a logo for several weeks after the show's announcement speaks volumes. They really just wanted to ride the success of the movie as soon as possible -- I don't think the higher ups who forced the idea really had any idea of just how insane that was.

Thanks for the explanation, also I think you blocked me off twitter way back (episode 25) I said that the animation wasn't that bad. And looking back at it I take it back, after I read your posts on this thread and comparing some of the well drawn episodes to Ep25 I think I owe you an apology.
@smkoo122 is my twitter name. I'm Interested in your opinion for each episode .
And again thanks for the explanation but I have another question , do you think super has a chance to fix it's schedule or is that impossible?

The Battle of Gods arc just about got away with few issues (animation-wise, at least), and actually looks okay in retrospect. But once we hit the Golden Freeza arc, it seemed as though Toei decided to simply sacrifice the arc in an attempt to alleviate issues with the upcoming new content. Unfortunately, they shot themselves in the foot by changing the Universe 6 arc's story very late in the game. We know that key animation was thrown away thanks to tweets by Norio Kanekubo. Kuririn was supposed to be bald, Goku was meant to fight Cabba in episode 38 (that's when Kanekubo turned up, anyway), and most importantly, this was all done and completed months ahead of schedule. For whatever reason, this was all changed, and animation had to be redone to fit the new plot line. I don't know if that's on Toriyama or a higher-up at Toei, but it seemed to really screw things up.

We're now at a point where everything is sort-of holding together, but it occasionally splits at the seams and we get some baffling bad stuff. Super's production is a real mystery that a lot of us are desperately trying to make sense of with every little bit of information we can find. I really hope we get a proper explanation of what went on at some point down the line.

Thanks for the explanation! and could you unblock me from twitter? you blocked back on episode 25, I said the animation wasn't that bad aaaand looking back at it I take it back, as I said after reading your posts on this thread and comparing it to the well drawn episodes I think I owe you an apology. Your posts have helped me spot the bad drawn shots of not only super but a lot of other anime's that I watch.
@smkoo122 is my twitter name, as I said I take back what I said.

Again thanks for the explanation! Buuuut I have another question , Do you think super has a chance to fix it's schedule or will the bad start still haunt it forever?

[Ajay]

I blocked you? That's odd. I rarely block people. Maybe you caught me at a bad time. Sorry about that!

As for your question, I think there're definitely ways to fix it, but I'm not convinced Toei are interested in taking on the challenge again. I guess we'll see!

[Fraxiel]

I blocked you? That's odd. I rarely block people. Maybe you caught me at a bad time. Sorry about that!

As for your question, I think there're definitely ways to fix it, but I'm not convinced Toei are interested in taking on the challenge again. I guess we'll see!

Do you mean like the actual work to fix it or do you think they don't plan on having this series run for a long time? because sales wise Dragon ball is doing super well also the rating's aren't that bad either.

Oh and thanks for the unblock Maybe you were frustrated with the episode so much that my comment just sounded stupid