Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10198
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sat May 19, 2018 6:03 am

Image

No KMH pose... Yamamuro well done!

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6086
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Ajay » Sat May 19, 2018 7:56 am

Wow, the anatomy on that is astronomically terrible. That's not where biceps go, and what on earth is going on with the legs?!
Follow me on Twitter! // Super Animation Catalogue
[url=https://twitter.com/Yuyucow][b]kViN[/b][/url][i] on Tadayoshi Yamamuro[/i] wrote:
A fun drawing killed his family and now his life's goal is to oppress them all.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12494
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by JulieYBM » Sat May 19, 2018 9:47 am

That poor right arm doesn't look like it bends. Hell, it doesn't even look evenly drawn.
•Julie | She/Her | Pansexual & Transgender | Queer |
•Avatar: Igarashi Kyou (married name: Hasumi Kyou) from the web comic 性転換後、親友と (Seitenka-go. Shin'yuu to) by Eroe (Pixiv; Twitter)

User avatar
majinwarman
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1697
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:50 pm
Location: Freeza Planet 1

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by majinwarman » Sat May 19, 2018 5:25 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Image

No KMH pose... Yamamuro well done!
That photo has so many problems. The biceps are misplaced, the arms looks weird and it looks hastely made.
Majinwarman
So I'm 'evil', huh? Interesting."
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10198
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sat May 19, 2018 7:47 pm

Come guys give him some slack now at least it wasn't a KMH pose! :P That's a win for me!

User avatar
Amir
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:17 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Amir » Sun May 20, 2018 10:40 am

Legs and biceps are screwed up.

User avatar
Alee9977
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 769
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:53 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Alee9977 » Sun May 20, 2018 11:01 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Image

No KMH pose... Yamamuro well done!
I don't see any problems with the legs or the left arm. That's were biceps go and he is doing a weird pose, you only have to understand it and you will see there is nothing wrong. However, I do find weird the head and the muscles behind it, it makes me think Goku has a hump
I made a bet with kinisking that Vegeta will be beated by an enemy quickly. If I lose, I chance my pic to Vegeta holding Black by the hair. If I win, he changes his pic to Vegeta being beated by Hit. It will last one month

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6086
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Ajay » Sun May 20, 2018 11:38 am

Alee9977 wrote: I don't see any problems with the legs or the left arm. That's were biceps go and he is doing a weird pose, you only have to understand it and you will see there is nothing wrong. However, I do find weird the head and the muscles behind it, it makes me think Goku has a hump
I can assure you your bicep does not go inside your shoulder.
Follow me on Twitter! // Super Animation Catalogue
[url=https://twitter.com/Yuyucow][b]kViN[/b][/url][i] on Tadayoshi Yamamuro[/i] wrote:
A fun drawing killed his family and now his life's goal is to oppress them all.

User avatar
Asura
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Asura » Sun May 20, 2018 10:06 pm

He's doing a slav squat. :lol:

It's really not that bad though, I think you're all being a bit too nitpicky.

User avatar
Metalwario64
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5959
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:02 am
Location: Namek

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Metalwario64 » Mon May 21, 2018 1:15 am

Aside from the shoulder being messed up, the face is off center. Look how much space his right eye has toward the edge of his face compared to his left eye.
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai
"90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash

User avatar
emperior
I Live Here
Posts: 3566
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:52 pm
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by emperior » Mon May 21, 2018 10:46 am

Asura wrote:He's doing a slav squat. :lol:

It's really not that bad though, I think you're all being a bit too nitpicky.
You may still like it, but the drawing is objectively wrong in the anatomy, and the face/head is also way too asymmetrical.
What I consider the Dragon Ball canon

Favorite Dragon Ball Arcs

User avatar
Asura
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Asura » Mon May 21, 2018 7:29 pm

emperior wrote:
Asura wrote:He's doing a slav squat. :lol:

It's really not that bad though, I think you're all being a bit too nitpicky.
You may still like it, but the drawing is objectively wrong in the anatomy, and the face/head is also way too asymmetrical.
I'm just saying, you're all being way too nitpicky and shitting on it simply because it's Yamamuro. I don't like the guy much either, and I hate him as the head character designer for Super, but I know that if this was anyone else who drew this you guys would be like "Well yeah it's got a few issues but it's not THAT bad".

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6086
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Ajay » Mon May 21, 2018 7:43 pm

Please don't make baseless assumptions. Thank you.
Follow me on Twitter! // Super Animation Catalogue
[url=https://twitter.com/Yuyucow][b]kViN[/b][/url][i] on Tadayoshi Yamamuro[/i] wrote:
A fun drawing killed his family and now his life's goal is to oppress them all.

User avatar
Asura
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Asura » Mon May 21, 2018 9:09 pm

What's baseless about it? I think the general disdain for Yamamuro is more than obvious at this point, so I have quite a base to go on. That, and the fact that the majority of pictures posted here that people scrutinize that aren't from the anime are, you named it, all done by Yamamuro. Of course I've seen people call out general product artists as well, but they're rare and few and far between. And yeah, I get it, he's the series designer and he's responsible for all this stuff which is why he gets more attention, but it's starting to get ridiculous with how much people are constantly shitting on him. Calling the anatomy "astronomically terrible" is a huge exaggeration. You want to see what astronomically terrible anatomy actually looks like? Look at early JoJo:

[spoiler]Image

Image[/spoiler]

And this shot in particular is probably the worst I have ever seen, this is something that deserves the title of astronomically terrible anatomy, not Yamamuro's UI Goku.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

User avatar
DainIronfoot
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:13 am

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by DainIronfoot » Mon May 21, 2018 10:09 pm

Asura wrote:What's baseless about it? I think the general disdain for Yamamuro is more than obvious at this point, so I have quite a base to go on. That, and the fact that the majority of pictures posted here that people scrutinize that aren't from the anime are, you named it, all done by Yamamuro. Of course I've seen people call out general product artists as well, but they're rare and few and far between. And yeah, I get it, he's the series designer and he's responsible for all this stuff which is why he gets more attention, but it's starting to get ridiculous with how much people are constantly shitting on him. Calling the anatomy "astronomically terrible" is a huge exaggeration. You want to see what astronomically terrible anatomy actually looks like? Look at early JoJo:

[spoiler]Image

Image[/spoiler]

And this shot in particular is probably the worst I have ever seen, this is something that deserves the title of astronomically terrible anatomy, not Yamamuro's UI Goku.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

I'm sure all who've visited this thread frequently have seen my thoughts on the whole "bashing of Yamamuro" posts on here and how i feel about them. However, I've for the most part moved on and just kept to myself. I've just come to ignore the mindless bashes but understand the valid ones (as i have my own criticisms as well). In the end though, they won't stop as some people automatically drop their view to a low if Yam's name is attached to it. The thing I found hysterical in a way though is that while one side expects you to understand their dislike, they don't seem to have a mutual respect for the other side who might like it. You'll always be met with the same "That has no basis of reality" or "you can't have an opinion". This goes both ways by the way, as i see it said often by both sides.

As for the picture, in my opinion there are a few things that are a bit off in it, however, it's not downright disgusting and to most people who view it casually they may think it's quite decent. Though, it's funny that anatomical issues are being brought up, because it makes me think back to the Nii/Yamamuro UI Goku some time ago. Yamamuro's was more accurate anatomically than Nii's but that for the most part had been dismissed as insignificant by some. Instead, since they couldn't use that, they resorted to other "issues" in the drawings. However, if it's Yamamuro's with the less accurate anatomy, it's like people are going to take up arms.

I really am glad Yamamuro stepped down from his role and is instead going to focus on Heroes. Hopefully, the discussion will eventually move on to the new style/designs from Shintani. I'll be glad when it does. I'd like to think it would be a fresh and positive change. I'm also curious to see more people discuss animation in the series after Ajay's great panel at Kamehacon.

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6086
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Ajay » Mon May 21, 2018 10:25 pm

Asura wrote:What's baseless about it? I think the general disdain for Yamamuro is more than obvious at this point, so I have quite a base to go on. That, and the fact that the majority of pictures posted here that people scrutinize that aren't from the anime are, you named it, all done by Yamamuro.
'Worse' anatomy elsewhere does not negate what's here, so your Jojo examples were unnecessary, not to mention a bit silly considering Araki's approach to literally everything he does. Yamamuro's not trying to be wacky here. But whatever, I'm not really here to engage with you on your dissenting opinion.

Your posts are baseless because they're focusing on a small slice of each and everyone posting here. Take a little look outside this forum bubble and you'll see just as many conversations and 'nitpicks' about Toyotaro, Toriyama, and even Takahashi. Heck, there's plenty on this forum anyway.

If you're seeing complaints about Yamamuro's work, then hey, maybe it's because it's a consistent issue that's in people's faces all the time. It's not some manufactured grudge.

Even if it is nitpicking to you, so what? It's a thread dedicated to nitpicking. Comes with the territory. Don't agree with people? Fine, explain why. Otherwise get over it and stop posting annoying generalisations. Your posts have been on thin ice for a while now.

Thanks.
Follow me on Twitter! // Super Animation Catalogue
[url=https://twitter.com/Yuyucow][b]kViN[/b][/url][i] on Tadayoshi Yamamuro[/i] wrote:
A fun drawing killed his family and now his life's goal is to oppress them all.

User avatar
Asura
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Asura » Mon May 21, 2018 11:59 pm

DainIronfoot wrote:
Asura wrote:What's baseless about it? I think the general disdain for Yamamuro is more than obvious at this point, so I have quite a base to go on. That, and the fact that the majority of pictures posted here that people scrutinize that aren't from the anime are, you named it, all done by Yamamuro. Of course I've seen people call out general product artists as well, but they're rare and few and far between. And yeah, I get it, he's the series designer and he's responsible for all this stuff which is why he gets more attention, but it's starting to get ridiculous with how much people are constantly shitting on him. Calling the anatomy "astronomically terrible" is a huge exaggeration. You want to see what astronomically terrible anatomy actually looks like? Look at early JoJo:

[spoiler]Image

Image[/spoiler]

And this shot in particular is probably the worst I have ever seen, this is something that deserves the title of astronomically terrible anatomy, not Yamamuro's UI Goku.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

I'm sure all who've visited this thread frequently have seen my thoughts on the whole "bashing of Yamamuro" posts on here and how i feel about them. However, I've for the most part moved on and just kept to myself. I've just come to ignore the mindless bashes but understand the valid ones (as i have my own criticisms as well). In the end though, they won't stop as some people automatically drop their view to a low if Yam's name is attached to it. The thing I found hysterical in a way though is that while one side expects you to understand their dislike, they don't seem to have a mutual respect for the other side who might like it. You'll always be met with the same "That has no basis of reality" or "you can't have an opinion". This goes both ways by the way, as i see it said often by both sides.

As for the picture, in my opinion there are a few things that are a bit off in it, however, it's not downright disgusting and to most people who view it casually they may think it's quite decent. Though, it's funny that anatomical issues are being brought up, because it makes me think back to the Nii/Yamamuro UI Goku some time ago. Yamamuro's was more accurate anatomically than Nii's but that for the most part had been dismissed as insignificant by some. Instead, since they couldn't use that, they resorted to other "issues" in the drawings. However, if it's Yamamuro's with the less accurate anatomy, it's like people are going to take up arms.

I really am glad Yamamuro stepped down from his role and is instead going to focus on Heroes. Hopefully, the discussion will eventually move on to the new style/designs from Shintani. I'll be glad when it does. I'd like to think it would be a fresh and positive change. I'm also curious to see more people discuss animation in the series after Ajay's great panel at Kamehacon.
100% agree with everything you said, especially the part about one side expecting you to understand their dislike for Yamamuro, but not respecting people who do like him. And that's the thing too, I don't even like Yamamuro, but it's annoying to see him constantly bashed over and over again even for the smallest of things. Like you said, there are definitely things that are off about the picture, I'm not defending the anatomy in saying that it's perfectly fine because yeah, obviously there are issues. Are they big enough issues to warrant this much complaining and nitpicking though? Absolutely not.

I 100% guarantee that casual viewers aren't even going to notice these issues, because it looks good from first glance, and even a second glance. I get that this is an animation thread so yeah obviously the people here are going to give it a million glances and analyze it to hell and back which is perfectly fine and even expected. This thread isn't really for the casual viewer who doesn't notice these issues after all, but aside from the initial post saying "well at least it's a different pose!" not a single positive thing has actually been said about the picture. People are acting like this is a terrible, terrible drawing. Is it really so wrong to point out how much people bash this guy? I'm definitely not the first to do it, and certainly not the last. There's is a very obvious anti-Yamamuro sentiment on these forums, you'd have to be blind not to notice it, and naive to think that no one holds a grudge against him.
Ajay wrote:
Asura wrote:What's baseless about it? I think the general disdain for Yamamuro is more than obvious at this point, so I have quite a base to go on. That, and the fact that the majority of pictures posted here that people scrutinize that aren't from the anime are, you named it, all done by Yamamuro.
'Worse' anatomy elsewhere does not negate what's here, so your Jojo examples were unnecessary, not to mention a bit silly considering Araki's approach to literally everything he does. Yamamuro's not trying to be wacky here. But whatever, I'm not really here to engage with you on your dissenting opinion.

Your posts are baseless because they're focusing on a small slice of each and everyone posting here. Take a little look outside this forum bubble and you'll see just as many conversations and 'nitpicks' about Toyotaro, Toriyama, and even Takahashi. Heck, there's plenty on this forum anyway.

If you're seeing complaints about Yamamuro's work, then hey, maybe it's because it's a consistent issue that's in people's faces all the time. It's not some manufactured grudge.

Even if it is nitpicking to you, so what? It's a thread dedicated to nitpicking. Comes with the territory. Don't agree with people? Fine, explain why. Otherwise get over it and stop posting annoying generalisations. Your posts have been on thin ice for a while now.

Thanks.
Worse anatomy doesn't negate what's here, but it certainly puts it into perspective. When you're using massive exaggerated hyperboles like "astronomically terrible" to describe something that is nowhere near that quality, I am going to show you comparisons and try to get you to understand why it's not as horrific as you're making it out to be. I'm not even saying you can't complain about the anatomy because there are worse things out there, I'm saying you shouldn't be using exaggerated terms to make it sound worse than it really is. You're of course entitled to your opinion about how you view the picture, but so am I. I gave examples as to why I feel the picture is not as bad as it seems (and there's a difference between Araki's later poses that follow more anatomical structure and the type of stuff he was putting out in Parts 1 and 2 that were definitely not intentional, hell only one of those examples was an actual pose), but you have yet to explain why you think it's so horrible. You pointed out the issues, but how do those issues really come together to arrive at such a dire conclusion like the one you're making? What are you comparing this to that makes you say it's astronomically terrible? Because on its own, I don't understand how you can arrive at that type of conclusion. I 100% understand your dislike for it, and the issues you bring up with it are very valid and very true, but I don't see how they're big enough to warrant the very serious and heavy criticisms you're giving it.

My posts are baseless because they focus on a small slice of each and everyone posting here? Isn't that exactly what a base is though? What else would my opinion be based on if not for the posters in this thread? As I said before, you would have to be naive to think people don't hold grudges against Yamamuro here. To bring that point up shouldn't be met with "nah there's no proof and nothing to base that off of." because that's very obviously not true, anyone who has been visiting this thread long enough can very easily see the anti-Yamamuro mentality.

I'm not saying that everyone here hates and criticizes Yamamuro because everyone has grudges against him, I'm simply bringing it up as a possible point, and it shouldn't be dismissed as baseless after all the hate that has been displayed here over time. Was I wrong to say that "you guys" wouldn't be complaining this much if it was someone else who did the drawing? Yes and no, it's definitely a generalization after all, but maybe it's something worth thinking about. I do have a bad habit of saying things like "you guys" to describe everyone, but please do believe me when I say it's not intentional. I'm smart enough to know that everyone doesn't think exactly the same, but at the same time there are such things as hivemind mentalities. Doesn't necessarily mean everyone's apart of the hivemind though, but that's usually what I refer to when I say "you guys", that sort of hivemind mentality you notice that some people, or even a lot of people share. Hiveminds are usually based in the majority's opinion, after all, and like I said before, the anti-Yamamuro rhetoric is definitely a majority opinion, and does contribute to some sort of hivemind where people hate him more simply because other people do as well. Not saying that's every poster here, but it is human nature, and other people have noticed this seemingly hivemind mentality as well.

So I'm not saying that people don't have a right to be upset with him and criticize him cause yeah, like I said I don't like the dude either. I absolutely despise the art direction he has taken Dragon Ball in, and it's obvious he's gotten worse over time as an artist. But there's a point where you have to begin to ask are people just looking for reasons to be angry at him for some of the stuff he's done?

You say that people complain about Yamamuro because "maybe it's a consistent issues that's in people's faces all the time." and not a grudge. Have you ever thought about the people who have expressed that they're tired of Yamamuro being bashed? When you're constantly picking on the same person over and over again for months, no, even years while saying mostly negative things about him, what else are you supposed to think when people start criticizing this much over small issues? People aren't wrong for criticizing him over the years, but when the criticisms get more and more nitpicky, you, like I said, begin to ask yourself if people are just now looking for reasons to get angry, which is why a lot of people are getting tired of the Yamamuro bashing when it's not deserved for some of the stuff he's done. So the bicep doesn't connect to the shoulder properly, the face is a bit off-centered, and the legs are strange. This makes something astronomically terrible? For someone who is very passionate about animation and defending animators when they're unnecessarily criticized, I'm pretty surprised that you would give Yamamuro this much shit over a picture like this. People complaining about Toyotaro, Toriyama, and even Takahashi have absolutely nothing to do with this.

And to wrap up, my posts are on thin ice? Well that certainly comes as news to me given I don't post here that often, maybe a post or two every day or other day now, and rarely do I post much in this thread. In the ~8 years I've been here I've never even received a warning. Maybe you're thinking of someone else?

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6086
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by Ajay » Tue May 22, 2018 8:00 am

There's nothing that's more rampant and more annoying on forums than boogeyman inventions and relegating opinions to nitpicks without actually justifying anything or offering counter-arguments. Followed up by someone else inventing hypocrisy and contradictions to try and undermine everything else? Nope, not happening on this forum.

Cut it out. Move on. Conversation's over.
Follow me on Twitter! // Super Animation Catalogue
[url=https://twitter.com/Yuyucow][b]kViN[/b][/url][i] on Tadayoshi Yamamuro[/i] wrote:
A fun drawing killed his family and now his life's goal is to oppress them all.

User avatar
majinwarman
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1697
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:50 pm
Location: Freeza Planet 1

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by majinwarman » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:00 am

Is it okay to post on this forum again?
Majinwarman
So I'm 'evil', huh? Interesting."
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

MrTennek
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:40 pm
Location: Rotterdam

Re: Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

Post by MrTennek » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:26 am

majinwarman wrote:Is it okay to post on this forum again?
This thread is like a minefield. Proceed with caution. :shh:

Post Reply