Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

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generalred3
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Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by generalred3 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:03 pm

I wanted to post in the "Super" forum but unfortunately I wasn't able to so if this needs to be moved, can a mod please assist.

I just wanted to ask a quick question. I finished watching Episode 22 of Super (which I thought was great BTW) and I noticed a comment Gohan made that might have explained his lack of his Mystic form. The only reason I bother bringing it up is because I still see so many posts questioning why Gohan lost this form.

When fighting Ginyu in Tagoma's body, he says something to the affect of "I can't draw out my full power, it must be due to my lack of training." The next frame he says, "I have no choice then..." and turns super saiyan. I could be wrong of course, however I took this as him saying he is unable to draw out his mystic power (full power) due to lack of training and has no choice but to turn into a super saiyan instead.

What do you guys think? Please don't let this turn into a power level or Super bashing thread. :thumbup:

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:27 pm

Yes, that's exactly how I interpreted it as well. He was trying to draw out his ultimate power in his base form during the fight, failed to do so completely so he had to resort to Super Saiyan, which is a form that wastes a lot of Ki, hence why he said he couldn't stay in that form for long (also due to the lack of training).

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:49 pm

Yes. That's was Toei just making it obvious that he can't use it right now.
All the discussions about this matter are pointless now.
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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by Geekdom101 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:31 pm

At least we have a semblance of an answer now!
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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by DoomieDoomie911 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:03 pm

Yes, that's most likely what that meant (assuming it's not a translation error/mistake).
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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by NitroEX » Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:04 pm

So he can still transform into a Super Saiyan yet... the Ultimate/Mystic state, which was stated as (according to the manga) "just like turning Super Saiyan" is somehow locked away due to a lack of training? I'm not so sure that really explains much, if anything it leaves more questions than answers.

If they genuinely had a legitimate reason for the loss of his Ultimate state, don't you think they'd have come out and provided a tangible explanation by now? Why settle for one vague line of dialogue when you can literally have one of the Kais, Whis, Beerus or someone else go into more detail and provide fans with the exposition they crave?

The whole thing stinks of poor writing and lack of creativity imo, after a few minutes of thinking about it I came up with my own fan made explanation; the ultimate state was achieved through hours of intense meditation right? Well then Gohan needs to meditate on a regular basis in order to maintain his power. There you go Toei/Toriyama, was that so hard?

Explanations aside, all of these nerfs still have no purpose in the story. Is Gohan going to redeem himself and regain the power he lost? Or is he simply going to remain the way he is, get kicked around all the time and basically be the new Yamcha for no apparent reason? Judging by the way things are going, my money's on the latter.

Good job Toei, great character regression I mean development! :wink:

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:06 pm

So as a result of not keeping up with his training, Gohan now can't automatically tap into his latent potential? Dammit Gohan, you didn't learn anything from the ordeal with Majin Boo. But at least it makes sense somewhat.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by Kuwabara » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:12 pm

I like the implication here. If Gohan couldn't "draw it out," that means his full power hasn't gone away...
This is the episode of when Gokuh enrages himself after Freezer talk shit about Kuririn

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by DarkPrince_92 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:04 pm

Kuwabara wrote:I like the implication here. If Gohan couldn't "draw it out," that means his full power hasn't gone away...
...but it ain't coming back... sooo....


I mean, the way it's been looking. Gohan is now a waste... The spotlight isn't on him anymore, unless something happens to Goku or Vegeta. :think: :problem:
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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by Vijay » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:04 pm

Wait a sec!

Old Kai potential unlocking=Mystic/Ultimate Gohan right?

His ABSOLUTE potential had already been unleashed to its fullest

Then how dafuq it can be somewhat be attributed to the lack of training, etc?

Regardless of trainin or not, if ur potential was "released" by Holy Kaioshin himself (and stated will be the strongest in the universe), it should always be there.

Maybe his general skills "Masenko, KHH etc" could have been made rusty, but his overall heneral strength & power should stay the same

This coming frm Gohan hater btw

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:12 pm

Vijay wrote:Wait a sec!

Old Kai potential unlocking=Mystic/Ultimate Gohan right?

His ABSOLUTE potential had already been unleashed to its fullest

Then how dafuq it can be somewhat be attributed to the lack of training, etc?

Regardless of trainin or not, if ur potential was "released" by Holy Kaioshin himself (and stated will be the strongest in the universe), it should always be there.

Maybe his general skills "Masenko, KHH etc" could have been made rusty, but his overall heneral strength & power should stay the same

This coming frm Gohan hater btw
Because Gohan has to power up to access all the latent power that was brought out by Elder Kai. Indicating that Mystic/Ultimate Gohan is a transformation, and with Gohan training at all for several years, his BP must have dropped to a point where becoming Mystic/Ultimate Gohan becomes very difficult.

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by Vijay » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:36 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Vijay wrote:Wait a sec!

Old Kai potential unlocking=Mystic/Ultimate Gohan right?

His ABSOLUTE potential had already been unleashed to its fullest

Then how dafuq it can be somewhat be attributed to the lack of training, etc?

Regardless of trainin or not, if ur potential was "released" by Holy Kaioshin himself (and stated will be the strongest in the universe), it should always be there.

Maybe his general skills "Masenko, KHH etc" could have been made rusty, but his overall heneral strength & power should stay the same

This coming frm Gohan hater btw
Because Gohan has to power up to access all the latent power that was brought out by Elder Kai. Indicating that Mystic/Ultimate Gohan is a transformation, and with Gohan training at all for several years, his BP must have dropped to a point where becoming Mystic/Ultimate Gohan becomes very difficult.
Yet, he retained Mystic/Ultimate form in BOG against Beerus

Besides, you only revert to base/weaker form once your weakened right? Ex: Ssj Goku against 19

Somehow, Ultimate Gohan was smashed brutally by Buutenks, yet his form/state was not weakened. How's that?

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by MozillaVulpix » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:15 pm

It's better than "I'm inexplicably a Super Saiyan now just because". And I like that he was the one who admitted it. At least he's aware that it's probably his fault.
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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:40 pm

I always thought the "mystic" form was the alternative method to bring out his full potential without the need for straining himself to draw out his ki in the first place. Now it's treated like a SSJ form itself? Really? I guess it's to just give Tagoma an edge over him for plot, and them now leaving out Gotenks' SSJ3 form... Even if they wanted to do that, Freeza would still be strong enough to bet him.
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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by yamu » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:52 am

There was a time where I assumed that his Mystic form was a permanent unlock, but as others have pointed out, Gohan's lack of training proved otherwise. It's still suprising how fast even SSJ would seem to drain him, which implies a pretty steep drop in power (more than I expected, at least).

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by Neon Z » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:50 am

I saw it as just him being weaker than before. He isn't trying to transform when he says that he's unable to draw his power. He's just attempting to fight and being weaker than expected. I see this as closer to what Gohan went through between the Cell and Buu Saga rather than the Ultimate power up just vanishing - especially since Base Gohan was shown to be much stronger than Piccolo (sent Tagoma flying with a generic ki blast while Piccolo couldn't make him flinch) which doesn't make sense unless part of the ultimate power is there.

However, he can use SSJ to make up for it, only it seems like his body can't take being pushed to that point due to his lack of training.
Last edited by Neon Z on Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by Battousai » Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:17 am

Kudos for Toei to have Gohan explaining why he needed to transform to SSJ.

Very good job.

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by perucho1990 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:17 pm

It seems that lack of training affect Saiyans in general.

Goten and Trunks also got weaker(Hence why their fusion ran out quickly).

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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by Tsufuru » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:46 pm

i dont see any problems with that
gohan never could just whenever he wants tap into his full potencial.
old kaioshin released all of his potencial but that doesnt mean if gohan stopped training and stopped using it again , he can draw it out whenever he wants.
remember gohan didnt train in the buu saga.
so you have to use 7years+the years passed after buu saga.

iirc buu saga was done in 1 day and gohan didnt learn himself to draw out his full power it was cuz of old kaioshin.
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Re: Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

Post by emperior » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:58 pm

Here's my opinion:

- During his years as a teenage (7 years gap between Cell Games ending and Buu Saga's beginning) Gohan's body grown, so he didn't lose much of his power (Saiyans grow to a body better suited to battle as stated in Jaco's manga) and it's also probable he didn't really completely stop training, he "slacked off" that can mean he just focused 90% school 10% training in my opinion, or even 60% school 40% training in Saiyan's mindset. At least he definitely moved more than he does now, he probably did all the shopping for his families, fought some criminals, and then before the tournament he had some time to train seriously so he could draw out his SSJ2 power (it's never said you got to train for years to be at your best, a few days of working out could be enough for him to reach near his maximum potential again).
Now, Gohan has a job and much probably a very, very sedentary lifestyle. He hasn't worked out for years (around 5 years I think?) so it's pretty plausible for me that he can't access neither SSJ2 nor his Mystic form. I really hope he will get his Mystic form next episode after seeing Piccolo's death (this serie needs a death, I hope Piccolo is dead for now) also because unless Goten and Trunks fuse again, no one can protect Z Fighters from being tortured and killed by Freezer and his men. So I hope Gohan will handle Tagoma and Freezer before Goku and Vegeta arrive and finish the job.
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