All the things Super did right

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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All the things Super did right

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:52 pm

Someone please move this over to the Super Section if you will.

Anyways here are the things i think Super did right.

1. It showed us some God of Destruction downtime/work. We've got to see Beerus actually doing his job. blowing up some planets etc. (Unlike BoG)
2. Most of all it showed us some insane feats from Beerus! He was finally confirmed to be Universe Level and MFTL+ also him blowing up half a planet with nothing but a finger poke was freaking awesome as well!
3. It portrayed Beerus as being a lot more malevolent and antagonistic. (Unlike BoG again)
4. It finally told us Beerus' Age!
5. It finally confirmed Whis to have God Ki. (Thus being a god)
6. It showed Vegeta's SSJ2 form. (As opposed to the movie where his sparkles were gone)
7. The Super Saiyan God transformation! It was handled so well! I guess we all agree on that one.
8. Episode 11! (Need i say more?)
9. Again Episode 12 showed us the universe crumbling scene.
10. Oh yeah i love this one. Super was clear in acknowledging that Goku Super Saiyan Post = SSJ God. Where'st in BoG they were more or less implying that he got weaker somewhat. (Though insignificant ofcourse)
11. We finally KNOW what happened with Vegeta between BoG and RoF! Although it turned out to be a dissapointment that he didn't get to become a SSJ God. But still we have our answer. They've also acknowledged that both Goku and Vegeta can sense Godly Ki now. Whereast in RoF it was made vague by saying i couldn't get to your planet Beerus-Sama because i couldn't sense your guys ki. (That's because he meant they were too far away for him to be able to sense them)
12. It finally confirmed SSGSS to have godly ki! (Even though ofcourse we all suspected it already to be the case)
13. It showed us "The Bridge" between BoG and RoF.
14. THEY FIXED THE LASER SCENE!!! OMFG! (Goku reverted to Base here in Super)
15. During his fight with Beerus on Kaio's planet. They finally acknowlwdged the jump in power between his different Super Saiyan Forms. Which was (in my opinion) a nice little touch.

So i guess this was about all i could think of.
So.. Many people at first were dissapointed when they first heard they were redoing the movies in saga format. And thought it was a waste of time. But..
Was it really a waste of time??

I personally don't think so.

What are your thoughts?
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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:57 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:1. It showed us some God of Destruction downtime/work. We've got to see Beerus actually doing his job. blowing up some planets etc. (Unlike BoG)
2. Most of all it showed us some insane feats from Beerus! He was finally confirmed to be Universe Level and MFTL+ also him blowing up half a planet with nothing but a finger poke was freaking awesome as well!
3. It portrayed Beerus as being a lot more malevolent and antagonistic. (Unlike BoG again)
My argument is that literally being shown these things detracts from Beerus as a character. I don't need to be told everything and shown everything. A little mystery goes a long way, and I found Beerus more interesting when everything was just speculation, hearsay, and boasts.

I'm not a power/strength person, and every time they go into more detail about it, I find myself rolling my eyes and losing interest. In a show about how strong people are, yes, I legitimately find being told about power the least interesting thing in the world.
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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:17 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:1. It showed us some God of Destruction downtime/work. We've got to see Beerus actually doing his job. blowing up some planets etc. (Unlike BoG)
2. Most of all it showed us some insane feats from Beerus! He was finally confirmed to be Universe Level and MFTL+ also him blowing up half a planet with nothing but a finger poke was freaking awesome as well!
3. It portrayed Beerus as being a lot more malevolent and antagonistic. (Unlike BoG again)
My argument is that literally being shown these things detracts from Beerus as a character. I don't need to be told everything and shown everything. A little mystery goes a long way, and I found Beerus more interesting when everything was just speculation, hearsay, and boasts.

I'm not a power/strength person, and every time they go into more detail about it, I find myself rolling my eyes and losing interest. In a show about how strong people are, yes, I legitimately find being told about power the least interesting thing in the world.
Well to each his own ofcourse. A lot of dbz fans watch dbz for strength related stuff ofcourse. (Much like myself) then there are people like yourself and many others here on Kanzenshuu who don't really care all that much about strength related stuff. And thus opt to focus on other things in the series like character interractions and stuff. Then there's the mystery part ofcourse. While some people like to have an answer for everything.(much like myself) others prefer the "mystery" aspect to stay. And than there's the comedy aspect of dragon ball that lots of folks really care about ofcourse. Well, i'm gonna be completely blunt here and be honest. But i personally don't feel anything for Dragon Ball's humor..(aside from the humor/cocky attitude the villains usually use to mock enemies in battle) see Vegeta and Vegetto for instance.(Perfect Cell was pretty fun too)
If i want to watch a show for laughs and comedy. I'd rather watch Family Guy! Now that's Something that really gets me to laugh and jump my seat every time i watch it!
But like i said to each his own. And i respect everyones opinion.

Perhaps this is a nice little thing to share. But i remember this one time i showed my dad the BoG movie and every time they interrupted the fight for some Pilaf scene. My dad was like: Wtf are they doing here? Why do they show them every time? It's boring and i don't find it funny at all. I wanna see some good old fighting! So i said yeah don't ask me. Ask Akira Toriyama xD

There are some things however in dragon ball that i do find funny. Like Commander Red for instance. That guy is so ridiculously selfish and the way how he reacts to his lacky's makes me jump of my seat in laughter every time i see it. Now those are things that i do find funny ofcourse. What i found interesting in dragon ball however is that the characters who are "supposed" to be funny like Bulma, Master Roshi and his dirty behavior aswell as almost the entire main cast and PILAF.. Aren't actually funny.. while on the other hand characters who aren't supposed to be funny actually turn out to be funny as a result. (Like the villains and Commandar Red for instance)
This is all my opinion ofcourse. And everyone is allowed to have theirs.
(In short i like dark humor xD)
Last edited by GodVegetto91 on Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by Speedster » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:53 pm

I was never against the rehash of the movies but a lot of the episodes are just so half-assed and artificially dragged. And there are way too many missed opportunities either due to laziness or low budget. For example:
1. I expected them to expand on the lore of the SSJG, show a bit a Freeza's training, explain little things like how Kaio got his planet back, how the Pilaf gang became kids again, etc.
2. The SSJG ritual transformation. It was good enough (much better than the movie imho) but yet again it was artificially dragged for way too long. And having characters goofing around though reminiscent of Mr Satan in the gym during the SSJ3 transformation detracted from the awe that the transformation was intended to produce.
3. Having Tagoma being OP against the Z fighters and then SSJ Gohan being OP against Tagoma. These resulted to one sided short fights. It would be much more interesting to have an even dynamic battle at some point (like base or SSJ Gohan vs Tagoma/Ginyu to be on par).

Nonetheless I still like many of the little tweaks and improvements that Super made over the movies. For example in the last episode (ep. 26) I liked that Vegeta interrupted Freeza before killing Goku more than the movie version where Freeza offers Vegeta the kill to prove his loyalty. And I liked that they didn't explain what Frreza's weakness was until after it came to the fore. From other episodes I liked that they fixed the plothole about the number of DB wishes, I liked more the portrayal of Freeza's ruthlessness (like how he kept shooting Gohan or Tagoma), I liked how Whis ability to revert time was not revealed and will appear as ex-machina. These are little things that if you watch these arcs first on Super the experience plot-wise is more thrilling. Too bad though that the art and animation is so bad during fighting scenes.

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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:01 pm

Speedster wrote:I was never against the rehash of the movies but a lot of the episodes are just so half-assed and artificially dragged. And there are way too many missed opportunities either due to laziness or low budget. For example:
1. I expected them to expand on the lore of the SSJG, show a bit a Freeza's training, explain little things like how Kaio got his planet back, how the Pilaf gang became kids again, etc.
2. The SSJG ritual transformation. It was good enough (much better than the movie imho) but yet again it was artificially dragged for way too long. And having characters goofing around though reminiscent of Mr Satan in the gym during the SSJ3 transformation detracted from the awe that the transformation was intended to produce.
3. Having Tagoma being OP against the Z fighters and then SSJ Gohan being OP against Tagoma. These resulted to one sided short fights. It would be much more interesting to have an even dynamic battle at some point (like base or SSJ Gohan vs Tagoma/Ginyu to be on par).

Nonetheless I still like many of the little tweaks and improvements that Super made over the movies. For example in the last episode (ep. 26) I liked that Vegeta interrupted Freeza before killing Goku more than the movie version where Freeza offers Vegeta the kill to prove his loyalty. And I liked that they didn't explain what Frreza's weakness was until after it came to the fore. From other episodes I liked that they fixed the plothole about the number of DB wishes, I liked more the portrayal of Freeza's ruthlessness (like how he kept shooting Gohan or Tagoma), I liked how Whis ability to revert time was not revealed and will appear as ex-machina. These are little things that if you watch these arcs first on Super the experience plot-wise is more thrilling. Too bad though that the art and animation is so bad during fighting scenes.
Well the entire point for Super was to explain the story in much greater detail. (Since storywise a series is much much better than a movie) and that's what i like the most.
A movie has better animation sure. But i personally care more for storytelling than animation. So it's definitely Super for me that wins. (Unless every episode is episode 5 tier ofcourse) but thank god that's not the case.
But to get back on what you just said. They DID at least show a glimpse of Freeza's training. Though it turned out to be a dissapointment.
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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by Chuquita » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:33 pm

There's probably more, but what sticks out most in my mind are:
-Episodes 1 and 2 of Super (Gokû's gardening adventure ('This stump's so stubborn it reminds me of Vegeta') (tosses it away without care) and Vegeta's Family Vacation.)
-Seeing more of Beerus' planet (it's got a hot springs!)
-Takoyaki Chef Vegeta
-'We're like rivals....I guess.' 'You guess?!'
-A good chunk of (not all, but a good chunk) the ssjg Gokû vs Beerus battle
-ssjg has fast-healing powers (even if we won't see ssjg again it's still good info to have imo)
-Episode 14's Princess-Catch
-Super Saiyan Mr. Satan vs "Beebus"
-The entire scene with Gokû asking Mr. Satan to punch him so no one would see that Gokû can fly and the ensuing falling/grabbing the tractor/bouncing back up into the air and over the buildings because that's how gravity works Gokû :3
-Vegeta's reaction-faces in episode 16; the baby chick mimicking him
-Vegeta getting to be "senpai" in Super's version of events (in the F movie comments Toriyama said it was Gokû who arrived for training first and Vegeta who arrived 2nd).
-Gokû pulling a Kool-Aid Man ("Oh YEAH!") by literally busting through that wall when he heard Vegeta was off training under Whis. Bonus points for the fact that there was a door right there that he could've used instead.
-Also Gokû's craftsmanship trying to fix the hole he made in the wall. XD
-Gokû teleporting all over the place interrupting Bulma as he anxiously awaits his ride to Beerus' planet.
-Bulma gives Gokû a cellphone; obsessive cellphone staring ensues.
-Whis implying he was considering coming to get Gokû to join the class at some point soon anyway
-Gokû greeting Vegeta with super-intense shiny-eyed stare, Vegeta unsure what to make of this, Gokû breaks the moment with a joke about how he didn't recognize Vegeta with that apron on
-the aprons in general X3
-Vegeta being awesome at housekeeping while Gokû's the clumsy one
-All the buildings on Beerus' planet and Whis makes Gokû and Vegeta room together in a tiny dorm (albeit a pretty-looking tiny dorm with glowing rocks on the walls).
-The oracle fish's 'Please don't kill them Whis, I get extra food when they're around.'
-Vegeta dealing with Gokû consistently complimenting him now.
-Whis having his own personal mini-RoSaT
-Gokû's reaction to Vegeta not holding his hand; Beerus and Whis' reactions to Gokû's reaction. Vegeta not seeing any of those reactions.
-while it wasn't something I was invested in, them 'fixing' the laser shot to being base form Gokû from behind instead of blueper from in-front.

As of episode 26 that's it.
Bonus: From the manga
-Gokû and Vegeta training in the RoSaT for 3 years together; because that just fascinates me and I'm so curious as to how that happened, who's idea it was, how they dealt with living in that environment with just each other for such a long period of time. I hope Super's TV series answers some of these questions.
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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by Michie » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:11 pm

Did anybody actually liked the god transformation in super? It took way to long and Tarble wasn't even mentioned.

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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:24 pm

All of the slice of life episodes were great and the expansion of Goku and Vegeta's training with Whis was well handled.

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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by LongLostSaiyan » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:16 pm

Super did episode 27 right, thats for sure.

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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:43 pm

Well there are so far 3 episodes in Super that almost everyone here agrees on were executed better in Super than in the movies.
Those were:
Episode 6
Episode 11
And now finally Episode 27 indeed.
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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by Basaku » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:00 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:1. It showed us some God of Destruction downtime/work. We've got to see Beerus actually doing his job. blowing up some planets etc. (Unlike BoG)
2. Most of all it showed us some insane feats from Beerus! He was finally confirmed to be Universe Level and MFTL+ also him blowing up half a planet with nothing but a finger poke was freaking awesome as well!
3. It portrayed Beerus as being a lot more malevolent and antagonistic. (Unlike BoG again)
My argument is that literally being shown these things detracts from Beerus as a character. I don't need to be told everything and shown everything. A little mystery goes a long way, and I found Beerus more interesting when everything was just speculation, hearsay, and boasts.

I'm not a power/strength person, and every time they go into more detail about it, I find myself rolling my eyes and losing interest. In a show about how strong people are, yes, I legitimately find being told about power the least interesting thing in the world.
Or...

You're secretly not liking that Super showed how he's a mass murderer for no good reason which makes fanboying for Beerus quite harder Image

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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by SoundVox » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:24 am

VegettoEX wrote:My argument is that literally being shown these things detracts from Beerus as a character. I don't need to be told everything and shown everything. A little mystery goes a long way, and I found Beerus more interesting when everything was just speculation, hearsay, and boasts.

I'm not a power/strength person, and every time they go into more detail about it, I find myself rolling my eyes and losing interest. In a show about how strong people are, yes, I legitimately find being told about power the least interesting thing in the world.
I absolutely agree. When I saw Battle of Gods, despite the fact Beerus threatened the earth, despite the fact he wiped the floor with our beloved characters...I never for a second felt he was villain. If anything, he felt more like a force of nature. But in Super, it was odd. I actually found myself being shocked at his actions. And not just destroying a planet, the way he greets Vegeta on the boat like a bully, or the flashback. It felt more villainous, and I had a "I don't even know who you are anymore" soap opera moment in my head.

Even in the manga I didn't feel that way. We see him destroy a planet, but mainly because they tried to poison him. In Super her just...does it. So yeah, for that period in time, prefer BoG's portrayal.

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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by SoundVox » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:28 am

Basaku wrote:You're secretly not liking that Super showed how he's a mass murderer for no good reason which makes fanboying for Beerus quite harder Image
I'd argue against that. In Super it's not just the fact he killed a planet, the way he treats Vegeta on the boat bringing him to his knees, then stopping when someone sees them (like a bully on a playground), the flashback, the slapping of Bulma. Sure, he still slapped Bulma in BoG, but in Super the dude freaking smiles when he does it. He comes off more like a villain, while in the movie, despite his threats, he felt more like a force of nature.

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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:22 am

SoundVox wrote:
Basaku wrote:You're secretly not liking that Super showed how he's a mass murderer for no good reason which makes fanboying for Beerus quite harder Image
I'd argue against that. In Super it's not just the fact he killed a planet, the way he treats Vegeta on the boat bringing him to his knees, then stopping when someone sees them (like a bully on a playground), the flashback, the slapping of Bulma. Sure, he still slapped Bulma in BoG, but in Super the dude freaking smiles when he does it. He comes off more like a villain, while in the movie, despite his threats, he felt more like a force of nature.
Well.. We were not supposed to like him back then. Remember it was the Beerus Saga xD
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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by ChaosLordBrandon » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:20 am

Everything thing GodVegetto91 already said. Also the story line is absolutely amazing as well with the 12 universes stuff. Can't wait for episode 29 and beyond!

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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by sintzu » Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:44 am

GodVegetto91 wrote: So.. Many people at first were dissapointed when they first heard they were redoing the movies in saga format. And thought it was a waste of time. But..
Was it really a waste of time??
I was one of them but I've changed my mind thanks to ep27 cause not only did we get a great fight between Vegeta and Freeza, we also found out that he reached Ssjg on his own so all the build up we got from ep1 paid off big time in the end.
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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by ROCKYIII » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:36 am

BOG screwed everything up with that whole vegeta getting angry after bulma being slapped and then somehow having power enough to put up a little fight against beerus. Nothing was centered on bulma. However things were centered on videl because it was found out she was pregnant.

It would have had everything in order if beerus somehow damaged videl (more stakes because she is pregnant), gohan got angry and rage boosted and then put up the same fight. Then vegeta does his usual thing of being jealous and curious about God ki.

Vegeta just never got such a huge rage boost before and the power levels would have made more sense since gohan is above ssj3 goku GAHHHH :(

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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by Miracles » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:44 am

VegettoEX wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:1. It showed us some God of Destruction downtime/work. We've got to see Beerus actually doing his job. blowing up some planets etc. (Unlike BoG)
2. Most of all it showed us some insane feats from Beerus! He was finally confirmed to be Universe Level and MFTL+ also him blowing up half a planet with nothing but a finger poke was freaking awesome as well!
3. It portrayed Beerus as being a lot more malevolent and antagonistic. (Unlike BoG again)
My argument is that literally being shown these things detracts from Beerus as a character. I don't need to be told everything and shown everything. A little mystery goes a long way, and I found Beerus more interesting when everything was just speculation, hearsay, and boasts.....
You and me both. Especially in an age where the audience wants every character fleshed out.

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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by Luso Saiyan » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:42 am

ROCKYIII wrote:BOG screwed everything up with that whole vegeta getting angry after bulma being slapped and then somehow having power enough to put up a little fight against beerus.
How exactly was that a screw up? Not liking something doesn't make it a screw up.

I found it to be a great scene and and even greater character moment for Vegeta. Always trying to hide his feelings due to his pride, but to see his loved one being hit made him snap and release his true strength (something he tries so hard to get to through training.

P.S: I'm talking about the movie version. Super only got interesting to me once the new storyline started.

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Re: All the things Super did right

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:48 am

Vegeta being less of a self-parody like he was in Resurrection F and a more antagonistic Beerus are pretty much the only things its done right.
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