Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by mecha3000 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:35 pm

We all know it's not a question of IF Funimation will get the license to Dragon Ball Super, but WHEN? In my opinion, Funimation should probably skip the first two arcs and come back to them later to generate hype for the series. I understand there's many purists who want them to be faithful to the original series, but we all know that more than half of those purists HATED Super's first two arcs (or at least I assume). So, I propose Funimation do something similar to what they did with Dragon Ball GT. Create a first episode that summarizes half of the BATTLE OF GODS ARC and half of the RESURRECTION F ARC of DB Super. Have the order of episodes be something like this:

01. Return of the Super Warriors! Terror of Destroyer God Beerus and Golden Freeza!! (summary episode like "A Grand Problem)
02. The God of Destruction of the 6th Universe - His Name is Champa
03. It is Settled - We Are Holding a Martial Arts Match! The Team Captain is Stronger than Goku
04. Training for the Tournament! Who Are the Two Remaining Members?!

In the first episode title, you would be able to establish that the Dragon Ball heroes are back and had to face both Beerus and Golden Frieza. Also, I recall Dragon Ball Kai using the name SUPER WARRIORS for the episode when everyone was wished back to life at the end of the Freeza Arc and it just works better here since the show is titled Dragon Ball "SUPER". Maybe Super Warriors would catch on more than Z-Fighters? I'm kidding. But seriously, have the new Ending 3 - "Light Pink" be reworked to be the Funimation version of the show's first ending, starting from my proposed first episode of course.

And I figure I might get posts telling me that my idea is stupid and Funimation shouldn't ruin the integrity of the show like GT, but unlike GT, Super's first two arcs have already been told in better form in the movies. Also, I really want this new Dragon Ball series to have a shot at reviving Dragon Ball's popularity to greater heights outside Japan and by starting the series with better animation and a new story, I feel it can achieve this. Just saying that gives me chills. Thoughts? Hopefully, Toei and Funimation come to an agreement based on the initial reaction of Super that skipping is probably the best option. After watching Super's past two episodes, I don't want the first two arcs to ruin any chance of a possible Dragon Ball popularity revival.
Last edited by mecha3000 on Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:25 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:39 pm

Even if that part of the story has been told better before, it's still a part of the show itself, and if it's shitty, then, well, the first two arcs of the show are shitty. Such is life, but FUNimation is rightfully beyond taking matters into their own hands.

Plus I haven't seen the new movies yet, and even if I did, I would still like to see the differences in the TV version.

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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by mecha3000 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:07 pm

Pokewhiz7 wrote:Even if that part of the story has been told better before, it's still a part of the show itself, and if it's shitty, then, well, the first two arcs of the show are shitty. Such is life, but FUNimation is rightfully beyond taking matters into their own hands.

Plus I haven't seen the new movies yet, and even if I did, I would still like to see the differences in the TV version.
Yeah, I suppose from the point of view of new viewers who haven't seen the movies, it would be nice to get the full series. But I just hope you go in knowing that the first two arcs of Super are not going to be as great as the movies were (Well, except for some improvements I have to admit). But I just came from another forum with another idea. Maybe Toei and Funimation should agree to release Super's first two arcs as an extension of the DBZ series rather than as part of Dragon Ball Super. The way I see it, Dragon Ball Super should start the same way GT did, BY TELLING NEW MATERIAL NOT RETOLD MATERIAL.

So maybe Super's first two arcs should be released by Funimation as DRAGON BALL Z: LORD BEERUS SAGA and DRAGON BALL Z: GOLDEN FREEZA SAGA. The fact that the arcs were originally DRAGON BALL Z movies kind of makes this work. And the saga names fit in line with what's come before: SAIYAN SAGA, FREEZA SAGA, CELL SAGA, BUU SAGA, BEERUS SAGA, and GOLDEN FREEZA SAGA. I don't know, I guess it kind of sounds stupid, but it makes sense to me. It will help Funimation's DBZ brand (Get casual fans hyped that DBZ is making a comeback) and build hype for their new DB series, Dragon Ball Super (And overall, generate and revive interest in the overall Dragon Ball franchise).

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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:41 pm

No. As subpar as the retellings may be as whole, they are still an integral part of the story and can't afford to be skipped. I really has to be noted that not every Dragon Ball fans that is going to watch Super has watched Battle Of Gods and Resurrection F. There are always gonna be Dragon Ball fans who may be going into the franchise having not watched or read anything about it previously and are just seeing it on TV for the first time. That was the case with Dragon Ball Z Kai and most definitely will be the case with Dragon Ball Super.

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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:59 pm

Yesssss. I've been saying this for the longest. Those two arcs are explosive diarrhea that are bound to turn people off (even I stopped watching...). What Funimation and Toonami can do is something of a countdown to Super. One Saturday airing Battle of Gods. The other airing Resurrection F. Then, they can start Super with episode 28 and a little inserted recap.

It's the same thing. The only important piece people will miss is Gohan asking Piccolo to train him. Nothing else is really relevant.
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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by ShaneisMC » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:14 pm

There isnt much to say other than absolutely not. they're too important to the story. Not everyone will have seen the movies. And even if they wanted to do like what they did with GT and make a summary episode and then go back 1. I think that would be a poor idea period. 2. I dont think they reasonably even could pull it off. Theres a pretty decent chunk of new story told over the first two arcs. At least certainly in regards to trying to crunch it down to 22 minutes.

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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:25 pm

Its hard to say whether or not they should. Even though to me, it would be a pointless distribution to prioritize and by now people should know the plot of both arcs, but then again a lot of the retcons have dialogue changes and the cameos that aren't in the movie is probably a good marketing incentive, but this mess wouldn't be so ridiculous if Toei didn't create Super this way with so many minor changes that should have just been collaborated together post movie as its own special or OVA, then go to U6. It would have been so much easier than what they did trying to pretend the movies didn't happen. Granted Super does address a lot of the BoG plotholes but.. smh. Modern DBZ is a mess but it gives Funi more things to market.
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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:29 pm

For all those saying the movies are absolutely required, they're not. All they need to do is air the movies as parts of Dragon Ball Super (call them Dragon Ball Super specials or some shit) ahead of the Champa portion and you've successfully given shown audiences the superior version and eliminated any chance of them being confused.
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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by Lunatic Fringe » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:32 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:For all those saying the movies are absolutely required, they're not. All they need to do is air the movies as parts of Dragon Ball Super (call them Dragon Ball Super specials or some shit) ahead of the Champa portion and you've successfully given shown audiences the superior version and eliminated any chance of them being confused.
But Piccolo dying is somewhat of a major event that's absent from the movies. You can't really gloss over that.

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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by Tanooki Kuribo » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:33 pm

You know, I never thought about it. I mean, they did skip ahead to Dragon Ball Z after only airing 13 episodes of Dragon Ball. Then they skipped the first 17 episodes of Dragon Ball GT so they could start off in the Baby arc. But then again, it's not the same FUNimation from the early 2000's.

I think it's risky either way. If they decide to air the first two arcs, whoever is airing this is committing to almost 30 episodes. That's kind of a lot for a "new" show that has no prior ratings to "sell" it. Sure there's other Dragon Ball series' you can use as an example, but not every series did great. If they start airing the Battle of Gods arc and ratings are bad then whoever is airing it might not want more Dragon Ball Super, or just treat it like shit by airing it at like, 4AM on Sundays or something. On the other hand, if they just air from episode 27 onward, how do they market the first two arcs as a home release when you can just buy the movies?

I think it's so easy for us "dedicated" fans, to just think FUNi should release it as-is. Most of us will buy the box sets when they put them out. But what about those "causal" fans that just saw these movies in the theater because they remember watching DBZ on Toonami? You think they're gonna buy a box set of basically the same thing? *sigh* I'm rambling now. Basically, I never thought about this until you brought it up, now I have no idea. It could really go either way.

But to answer your question: I think they should put the first two arcs out via home release, then try to sell the third arc to a network. We don't know how far this series is going, if they keep going after the Universe 6 arc and the episodes surpass the number of episodes in the first two arcs, I'd say they have a better chance selling episodes 27 onward to a network.

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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:38 pm

Lunatic Fringe wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:For all those saying the movies are absolutely required, they're not. All they need to do is air the movies as parts of Dragon Ball Super (call them Dragon Ball Super specials or some shit) ahead of the Champa portion and you've successfully given shown audiences the superior version and eliminated any chance of them being confused.
But Piccolo dying is somewhat of a major event that's absent from the movies. You can't really gloss over that.
You can, just change the dialogue whenever it's brought up. Instead of having Gohan say he wants to improve because Piccolo died, you can just change it to because everyone died from Freeza. Any flashbacks that reference the show versions of BoG or F would also need to get cut or replaced by film clips instead. I know this has very little chance of happening and the re-tellings will get dubbed but hey, a guy can dream.
Last edited by ekrolo2 on Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by precita » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:39 pm

It would be funnier if they split the movies into 4 episodes each and put it in Super and skipped the actual anime adaptions.

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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by Lunatic Fringe » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:47 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Lunatic Fringe wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:For all those saying the movies are absolutely required, they're not. All they need to do is air the movies as parts of Dragon Ball Super (call them Dragon Ball Super specials or some shit) ahead of the Champa portion and you've successfully given shown audiences the superior version and eliminated any chance of them being confused.
But Piccolo dying is somewhat of a major event that's absent from the movies. You can't really gloss over that.
You can, just change the dialogue whenever it's brought up. Instead of having Gohan say he wants to improve because Piccolo died, you can just change it to because everyone died from Freeza. Any flashbacks that reference the show versions of BoG or F would also need to get cut or replaced by film clips instead. I know this has very little chance of happening and the re-tellings will get dubbed but hey, a guy can dream.
I was under the impression that changing the motivation behind a character's actions, something the old Funi-Z dub was guilty of doing many times, was especially frowned upon. The end result might be done for brevity sake and to my own admission, isn't that big of a stretch, but I'd think that with the purpose of dubbing being getting as close to what you're translating from as possible, it'd be best to just weather the storm and wait until the retellings are over.

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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:55 pm

Lunatic Fringe wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
Lunatic Fringe wrote:
But Piccolo dying is somewhat of a major event that's absent from the movies. You can't really gloss over that.
You can, just change the dialogue whenever it's brought up. Instead of having Gohan say he wants to improve because Piccolo died, you can just change it to because everyone died from Freeza. Any flashbacks that reference the show versions of BoG or F would also need to get cut or replaced by film clips instead. I know this has very little chance of happening and the re-tellings will get dubbed but hey, a guy can dream.
I was under the impression that changing the motivation behind a character's actions, something the old Funi-Z dub was guilty of doing many times, was especially frowned upon. The end result might be done for brevity sake and to my own admission, isn't that big of a stretch, but I'd think that with the purpose of dubbing being getting as close to what you're translating from as possible, it'd be best to just weather the storm and wait until the retellings are over.
Ordinarily you'd be right but if Gohan's line in the JPN version is: "I'm training so you, Pan, Videl,... Don't die" to "I'm training so, Pan, Videl,... Don't die." wouldn't be a big deal, at least not for me. Purists might throw a bitch fit but its a small price to pay for the horrible re-tellings to get bent in favor of the better versions.
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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by mecha3000 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:36 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Lunatic Fringe wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:For all those saying the movies are absolutely required, they're not. All they need to do is air the movies as parts of Dragon Ball Super (call them Dragon Ball Super specials or some shit) ahead of the Champa portion and you've successfully given shown audiences the superior version and eliminated any chance of them being confused.
But Piccolo dying is somewhat of a major event that's absent from the movies. You can't really gloss over that.
You can, just change the dialogue whenever it's brought up. Instead of having Gohan say he wants to improve because Piccolo died, you can just change it to because everyone died from Freeza. Any flashbacks that reference the show versions of BoG or F would also need to get cut or replaced by film clips instead. I know this has very little chance of happening and the re-tellings will get dubbed but hey, a guy can dream.
They don't even have to take out the Piccolo's death thing. Just make sure to mention Piccolo's death and all the major plot points in Super (Vegeta cooking for Whis, etc) in the first summary episode. Literally in the first summary episode, they can have the Gohan talking to Piccolo about his death scene at the 20 minute mark of the episode and have Gohan say exactly what he said in the Japanese version, "It's my fault you died. Please train me so I can protect everyone." Everyone, let's be honest. Piccolo dying is not the biggest thing in the world, especially in Dragon Ball when you know he's going to be wished back. So why do we need an entire arc retold JUST to make sure this aspect is addressed.

Also, I respect everyone who is saying DB Super's first two arcs MUST be told. But I don't really agree with it. I understand there are bits with Champa and Vados as well as Goku and Vegeta's training on Beerus' planet and even the underwhelming Freeza and Tagoma training scene. But like I said, as long as Funimation mentions all the major DB Super added bits, I don't think it's ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for Super's first two arcs to be told. And like someone else said, Toonami could do air Battle of Gods followed by Resurrection F, and lead in to Dragon Ball Super (and maybe still have the summary episode as a recap episode, followed by the Champa/Vados episode 2).

However, they can do what I mentioned earlier and rebrand Dragon Ball Super by separating the first two arcs from the series. This might be too much of a big change, but maybe release the first two arcs as DRAGON BALL Z: LORD BEERUS SAGA and DRAGON BALL Z: GOLDEN FREEZA SAGA (fits in line with their other Saga titles: Saiyan Saga, Freeza Saga, Cell Saga, Buu Saga, Beerus Saga, Golden Freeza Saga AND Funimation did this with their original Dragon Ball series releases like Commander Red Saga or Piccolo Jr. Saga). That way, Funimation can keep their DBZ brand going and build hype by getting casual fans to be like DRAGON BALL Z IS COMING BACK LIKE SAMURAI JACK!!! MY CHILDHOOD!!! Maybe, Funimation can even release this BEFORE Super's Champa/U6 stuff so they can prepare fans for the "new" DB series, Dragon Ball Super. That way, you can kind of justify the first two arcs by making them extensions of the DBZ series, rather than a NEW series altogether. So, Funimation could release it BEFORE or AFTER their new version of Dragon Ball Super. It might be risky, but the marketing might work better than it did in Japan. With Super's new superior animation in the Champa Arc, I just feel a separation from the first two arcs could be a good thing for the Dragon Ball franchise in the end. I mean, we already have two different versions of Dragon Ball Kai's Buu Saga (Japan's version and International version) so this might not be such as bad thing.

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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:05 pm

No. Super's first two story arcs seem more for international markets than Japan. Few countries received a wide theatrical release of those movies.
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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by successoroffate » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:25 pm

As much as I hate Funimation, I just don't see it possible for them to pass such an opportunity to cash in.
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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by kei17 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:55 pm

Though I'm sure this won't actually happen, considering how the retellings were extremely awful and pointless that airing them first can harm the merchandise, treating them as the "lost episodes" would be much better business-wise. If I were in charge of the marketing in the US, I would definitely do so and let them air the movies instead no matter how purist fans rant.

Furthermore, Toei shouldn't have produced the retelling episodes in the first place. They should've directly gotten to the new story from the beginning. For the international market, just produce some additional episodes with footage recycled from the movies.

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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:16 pm

That's what they did with GT back in the day, they went straight to the Metal Mutant/Bebi plotline and released the beginning arc later on as the 'lost episodes.' If they're listening somewhere to everyone's complaints, I would hope they make the right decision again.
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Re: Should Funimation skip the first two DB Super arcs?

Post by Vijay » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:28 pm

Kinda reminds me of GT's "Lost Episode" where Funi skipped the whole mess known as Black Star Dragon Ball Saga & plunge directly into Baby Saga.

Cuz coming off Z's hot wheels, Funi cant afford to lose their investment & tricked fans back then with the mysterious "lost episodes".

Ur telling Super should receive same treatment. Goes to show the degree of Super's failure

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