Should the supporting cast be more useful again?

[Blade]

I dunno, I think that Super has done an okay job of deploying the ensemble cast.

Who'd have suspected priorly that Piccolo would have fought in the Universe 6 tournament? Or that Tenshinhan and Master Roshi would have fought with Freeza's army? Or that Jaco's eyesight could have made him such a useful observer of battles? Obviously you've got your comic-relief characters, such as Mr Satan, Majin Buu and Monaka - but that isn't necessarily tantamount to them being not 'useful' - I think that's a woefully closed-minded perspective on the situation.

I think if your idea of the supporting cast being 'useful' is to receive huge power ups and fight the main adversaries, then you're probably going to be let down - just as you would be in One Piece if you were expecting Nami or Usopp to duke it out with the big bads. However, if of a mind where you're happy for them to be utilised and involved in other ways, then I think that Super hasn't been as single-mindedly Goku/Vegeta as some seem to imply.

[TekTheNinja]

I dunno, I think that Super has done an okay job of deploying the ensemble cast.

Who'd have suspected priorly that Piccolo would have fought in the Universe 6 tournament?

Yeah. He fought one round and lost. Good job bro. You're SOOO useful. -_- Besides, I expected him to be there. The thing is I actually expected him to win one instead of losing immediately.

I think if your idea of the supporting cast being 'useful' is to receive huge power ups and fight the main adversaries, then you're probably going to be let down - just as you would be in One Piece if you were expecting Nami or Usopp to duke it out with the big bads.

I'm not a big One Piece fan, but didn't they used to?

However, if of a mind where you're happy for them to be utilised and involved in other ways, then I think that Super hasn't been as single-mindedly Goku/Vegeta as some seem to imply.

Yeah, no. We're lucky if someone like Yamcha even gets to speak.

[Blade]

Yeah. He fought one round and lost. Good job bro. You're SOOO useful. -_- Besides, I expected him to be there. The thing is I actually expected him to win one instead of losing immediately.

Well, it's much implied that he would have won due to his smarts, not his power, if not for the fact that Frost cheated. This proved to be the vehicle for Frost's foul play coming to light - so I wouldn't call that useless at all. Do only character victories count now?

I'm not a big One Piece fan, but didn't they used to?

Maybe only to get beaten up? Zoro fights a few of the big bads from time to time, and recently, Sanji had a scuffle with the main antagonist - but it's besides the point.

Yeah, no. We're lucky if someone like Yamcha even gets to speak.

Granted, Yamcha doesn't get many lines - but that's a consequence of a totally stuffed character roster. Where Yamcha may have had lines, we've had characters like Beerus, Whis and Jaco involved in proceedings. It's a juggling act, and frankly, I'd rather see new characters have interesting and meaningful interactions than pointlessly shoehorn in members of the legacy cast.

[namekiansaiyan]

I dunno, I think that Super has done an okay job of deploying the ensemble cast.

Who'd have suspected priorly that Piccolo would have fought in the Universe 6 tournament? Or that Tenshinhan and Master Roshi would have fought with Freeza's army? Or that Jaco's eyesight could have made him such a useful observer of battles? Obviously you've got your comic-relief characters, such as Mr Satan, Majin Buu and Monaka - but that isn't necessarily tantamount to them being not 'useful' - I think that's a woefully closed-minded perspective on the situation.

I think if your idea of the supporting cast being 'useful' is to receive huge power ups and fight the main adversaries, then you're probably going to be let down - just as you would be in One Piece if you were expecting Nami or Usopp to duke it out with the big bads. However, if of a mind where you're happy for them to be utilised and involved in other ways, then I think that Super hasn't been as single-mindedly Goku/Vegeta as some seem to imply.

As soon as we knew it was a 5 vs 5 tournament, in my mind after Goku and Vegeta the next choice was Piccolo without doubt and that is what happened. I am sure everyone agrees that he should have had a fight with Magetta and I thinl that is the problem most problem have.

[TekTheNinja]

Yeah. He fought one round and lost. Good job bro. You're SOOO useful. -_- Besides, I expected him to be there. The thing is I actually expected him to win one instead of losing immediately.

Well, it's much implied that he would have won due to his smarts, not his power, if not for the fact that Frost cheated. This proved to be the vehicle for Frost's foul play coming to light - so I wouldn't call that useless at all. Do only character victories count now?

I've been over how terrible Piccolo's treatment was in that episode several time, so I'd rather not just repeat myself about how that's BS.

[Blade]

I've been over how terrible Piccolo's treatment was in that episode several time, so I'd rather not just repeat myself about how that's BS.

If I may be so bold as to say so, I think your reply here perhaps encapsulates why you're vexing yourself on this.

Your response is emotional; it demonstrates a grievance with what you perceive to be poor treatment of a character who you are clearly very fond of. That's fine - but do not mistake this for objective criticism of his lack of usefulness to the plot. Your argument appears to be that you don't like the fact that the character's misfortune or failings were used to propel the narrative - and that's not the same thing.

[MaxZ]

Yeah, I'd like to see some of the more powerful Z fighters learn to keep their ki inside and become at least powerful enough to be useful in major fights again. Characters like Krillin, Tien, 18, and Piccolo at the very least should learn the kind of ki control Goku and Vegeta have. Piccolo and 18 would be incredibly strong if they could do it, probably 40-60% as strong as Goku and Vegeta.

And of course, Gohan should get Super Saiyan Blue. And Future Trunks.

[Power Metal]

Here's a list of powerups/upgrades for some characters I think could work in the rules of the Dragonball Universe.

Piccolo
-Like in the Supersonic Warriors game, use the namekian dragonballs to revive King Piccolo and fuse with him therefore becoming truly complete and reaching 100% of the nameless nameks potential.
-After becoming complete, train and unlock the unnamed red-eye transformation seen in DBO and DB heroes.

Krillin and Yamcha
-Similar to the games, learn Kaioken, however they can only take it up to x3, since a human body isn't as durable as a saiyans. It would be nice for all the turtle school students to know this. New combo for Krillin the Kaioken-Kamehameha and for Yamcha the Kaioken-Wolf Fang Fist.

Chiaotzu
-Since he cant keep up physically, he would increase his telekinetic powers to Jean Grey levels.

Goten and Kid Trunks
-Similar to Garnet from Steven Universe learn to keep their fusion as Gotenks for as long as they want, negating the 30min limit. Show the true power of their bromance.

Fat Buu
-Learn the Kaioken from watching someone else do, like the Majin race in DBO. HIs copy skill is really underused.
-Mystic Armor that Majin race get in DB heroes.

Pan-EOZ
-Power Pole

Master Roshi
-Flight

Chi-Chi, Bulma, Mr. Satan, Yajirobe and Jaco
-Jetpack for flight.

I would love for some of the supporting cast to be relevant again. And most of your ideas for power-ups seems pretty decent.

Instead of making huge (improbable) power-ups, I would like it if they introduced enemies that aren't so powerful. Just statistically, the DB universe should have WAY more Frieza-level fighters than say Cell (though there may be a decent number of Cell-level fighters too since we've already seen Dabura and Bojack [yeah yeah movie only whatever]).
That's what I kind of liked about Yo! Goku and Friends, at first they were going to let Goten and Trunks handle it. But of course Goku stepped in in the end.

On a side note, Buu-level people should be few and far between given what we know of his own history. Aside from Beerus, the universe hadn't seen anyone near Buu for like 5 million years (as far as we know anyway).

[TekTheNinja]

I've been over how terrible Piccolo's treatment was in that episode several time, so I'd rather not just repeat myself about how that's BS.

If I may be so bold as to say so, I think your reply here perhaps encapsulates why you're vexing yourself on this.

Your response is emotional; it demonstrates a grievance with what you perceive to be poor treatment of a character who you are clearly very fond of. That's fine - but do not mistake this for objective criticism of his lack of usefulness to the plot. Your argument appears to be that you don't like the fact that the character's misfortune or failings were used to propel the narrative - and that's not the same thing.

Umm... What? You're making a lot of assumptions here mate. All I'm saying is that I've been over everything wrong with the episode way back when it aired.

[Theophrastus]

I'm fine with the fighting largely being handed off to two or three dedicated strong, fighter-type characters (though someone else getting an appropriately-sized bone thrown to them once in a while is nice too).

Just...have the other characters doing SOMETHING to further the plot or accomplish whatever goal is being worked towards instead of having them mope around about how useless they are. That doesn't have to involve fighting. Toriyama already did this to a degree in the Android/Cell arc with Krillin/Bulma/Tenshinhan. Just do more stuff like that.

[Zeru14]

Well with the latest news, is there any hope for the remaining cast to start playing role, or will Future Mai end up accomplishing more despite not being a "Ki Fighter". Goku and Vegeta cant be everywhere, hopefully the cast(except Piccolo to some degree) will finally realize how they've become too dependent on those two and finally take some initiative. Let's go over the numerous power up methods they've got but the writers refuse to let them use, which creates a hole in the story.

Kaio-ken
-perfect for those who don't have a bloodline transformation, yet Goku is the only who learned it, despite all those who died in the Saiyan Saga training on King Kai's planet, or just having Goku teach others himself
Gravity Training
-start low and work your way up, Goku and Vegeta showed how effective this was, yet no one else used it
Old Kai Potential Unleashed
-anyone can go through the ritual yet Gohan is the only one who did
Time Chamber
-no one used it except the Saiyans and Piccolo
Majin Copy Skill
-Majins can learn any non-bloodline technique just from seeing it once, yet this ability seems to be forgotten or not allowed to be used anymore by having Fat Buu purposely not see any fights
Fusion Dance
-no others except Goten and Kid Trunks do it to form Gotenks, Tien and Yamcha forming Tiencha from the games would be fun, and with Future Trunks coming, Gohan now has the perfect fusion partner "Gohanks" can be born
Ki Control
-learn to power up without wasting Ki, any of them should be able to learn and use this, yet Goku and Vegeta are the only ones again

[pacz360]

Well with the latest news, is there any hope for the remaining cast to start playing role, or will Future Mai end up accomplishing more despite not being a "Ki Fighter". Goku and Vegeta cant be everywhere, hopefully the cast(except Piccolo to some degree) will finally realize how they've become too dependent on those two and finally take some initiative. Let's go over the numerous power up methods they've got but the writers refuse to let them use, which creates a hole in the story.

Kaio-ken
-perfect for those who don't have a bloodline transformation, yet Goku is the only who learned it, despite all those who died in the Saiyan Saga training on King Kai's planet, or just having Goku teach others himself
Gravity Training
-start low and work your way up, Goku and Vegeta showed how effective this was, yet no one else used it
Old Kai Potential Unleashed
-anyone can go through the ritual yet Gohan is the only one who did
Time Chamber
-no one used it except the Saiyans and Piccolo
Majin Copy Skill
-Majins can learn any non-bloodline technique just from seeing it once, yet this ability seems to be forgotten or not allowed to be used anymore by having Fat Buu purposely not see any fights
Fusion Dance
-no others except Goten and Kid Trunks do it to form Gotenks, Tien and Yamcha forming Tiencha from the games would be fun, and with Future Trunks coming, Gohan now has the perfect fusion partner "Gohanks" can be born
Ki Control
-learn to power up without wasting Ki, any of them should be able to learn and use this, yet Goku and Vegeta are the only ones again

You have a lot igood ideas but sadly super won't take advantege of it.

[HeroR]

Well with the latest news, is there any hope for the remaining cast to start playing role, or will Future Mai end up accomplishing more despite not being a "Ki Fighter". Goku and Vegeta cant be everywhere, hopefully the cast(except Piccolo to some degree) will finally realize how they've become too dependent on those two and finally take some initiative. Let's go over the numerous power up methods they've got but the writers refuse to let them use, which creates a hole in the story.

Kaio-ken
-perfect for those who don't have a bloodline transformation, yet Goku is the only who learned it, despite all those who died in the Saiyan Saga training on King Kai's planet, or just having Goku teach others himself
Gravity Training
-start low and work your way up, Goku and Vegeta showed how effective this was, yet no one else used it
Old Kai Potential Unleashed
-anyone can go through the ritual yet Gohan is the only one who did
Time Chamber
-no one used it except the Saiyans and Piccolo
Majin Copy Skill
-Majins can learn any non-bloodline technique just from seeing it once, yet this ability seems to be forgotten or not allowed to be used anymore by having Fat Buu purposely not see any fights
Fusion Dance
-no others except Goten and Kid Trunks do it to form Gotenks, Tien and Yamcha forming Tiencha from the games would be fun, and with Future Trunks coming, Gohan now has the perfect fusion partner "Gohanks" can be born
Ki Control
-learn to power up without wasting Ki, any of them should be able to learn and use this, yet Goku and Vegeta are the only ones again

If after Buu, Beerus, and Freeza the crew haven't learned to be more independent of Goku, I doubt they will suddenly start now. Also Tien and Chiaotzu do constantly train, and despite that it is questionable if Tien is as strong as Namek Saga Freeza, especially if you believe Goku's base form was weaker than Freeza before obtaining god power. But for the sake of argument, let's go down the list:

Kaio-Ken: Unless the humans can push it to 50X, they will still be weaker than the Saiyans, and even then they will only be as strong as Goten and Trunks.

Gravity Training: Goku and Vegeta gravity trained to reach Super Saiyan. After that, Vegeta training in heavier gravity hasn't yield the same results, otherwise he should be many times stronger than Goku since he trains at 150+ gravity while Goku only trains at 10X on King Kai's planet. So the humans will get some benefits, but not much to make any different.

Old Kai Potential Unleashed: Old Kai can only release someone latent energy. He doesn't give people power they don't have much like the Elder Namek. The humans latent power is very limited, especially compared to the Saiyans. They may get a power boast, but even if they become 50X stronger, it still won't make much of a different, especially for people like Tien and Chiaotzu who always train.

Majin Copy Skill: Buu can learn techniques, but they won't necessarily make him stronger. He could in theory learn the Kaio-Ken if Goku do it in front of Buu, but that if Buu can stay awake that long.

Fusion Dance: First, one needs a person of almost equal power and size. Someone like Krillin can't fuse with anyone since everyone is bigger than him and Chiaotzu is too small. That leaves Tien and Yamcha. They would become stronger. However, if something can beat up Gotenks, they won't be doing much fused or not.

Ki Control: Not wasting energy is a very basic thing that almost every human character knows. One of the first lessons that both Karin and Kami teach is how to not to waste movement or energy. Goku and Vegeta just learned much better ki control under Whis. And even then, that doesn't increases their power, it just give them much better endurance so they don't burn themselves out like Golden Freeza. Learning good energy control does allow the Saiyans to unlock Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, but the humans can't access that.

This is not to say that the other characters can't or shouldn't be upgraded. It is just all the methods named here are severally out-dated and wouldn't put the human cast past the Cell Saga. Kaio-Ken only works because Goku can combine it with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Before then, it was an outdated power-up.

[Majin Jator]

The misuse of the cast has always been the most glaring fault of the series.
What is most aggraviating is that it won't be that hard to make things right: Jaco, a "newcomer", is a good example of how a character can be useful even if he's weak. He spotted that Frost was cheating, he averted the absorption of the kids by the SuperWater (don't care to remember the name). He even fought Freezer's soldiers, while stronger and stablished characters like C-18 and Majin Buu didn't even take part of that fight.
I like Jaco, but it piss me off a bit that he receives such good treatment in comparission with other characters.

And of course, you can use "henchmen" to give other fighters the spotlight, but even something that easy they have done wrong.
Take Tagoma for example: It was really necessary to have him humiliating Piccolo? I'm not saying Piccolo should have won that battle (really, when was the last time he won a battle? Saibamen?), but a good, interesting fight when both contendants struggle would have been much better.

Anyway, is unlikely that Toriyama or Toei would change their ways now...

[omaro34]

This is my biggest beef of the series. But lets face it, it is not happening. Everything revolves around Goku and Vegeta in Super. Its become the theme. Its so glaring that it will always be on my mind whenever I think of Super. I'm not interested in this mini Monaka saga, I'm really hoping this Future Trunks Arc would be different.

But it is what it is. I have harped on this so many times there is no point anymore.

[pacz360]

This is my biggest beef of the series. But lets face it, it is not happening. Everything revolves around Goku and Vegeta in Super. Its become the theme. Its so glaring that it will always be on my mind whenever I think of Super. I'm not interested in this mini Monaka saga, I'm really hoping this Future Trunks Arc would be different.

But it is what it is. I have harped on this so many times there is no point anymore.

Broken a bit of your spirit hasn't it.

[Grimlock]

It seems Mai will be more useful... Doesn't that count?

[omaro34]

This is my biggest beef of the series. But lets face it, it is not happening. Everything revolves around Goku and Vegeta in Super. Its become the theme. Its so glaring that it will always be on my mind whenever I think of Super. I'm not interested in this mini Monaka saga, I'm really hoping this Future Trunks Arc would be different.

But it is what it is. I have harped on this so many times there is no point anymore.

Broken a bit of your spirit hasn't it.

No question brother, it has.

[FoolsGil]

They already were. RoF was only two sagas ago.

[Lord Frieza]

How useful can they be? None of the humans, even Ten can keep up with the saiyans despite years of dedicated training and since 18 is a cyborg we don't know if she can get stronger without upgrades. Piccolo has the best shot as he is a namekian, meaning his has a very long lifespan (longer then saiyans) and seems to grow in strength faster then humans do. All that will allow him to at least stay relevant to a degree.

Gohan, Goten and Trunk have lots of potential but lack the saiyan drive to train, the kids dont take things all that seriously and Gohan seems to have given up on hardcore training to focus on his family and work. They are all to human, it takes the edge of their saiyan fighting instinct despite all the power being a hybrid gives them. Future Trunks is the only one who would have the mindset to train with rebuilding the world, trying to have a normal life for once and not havening anyone to train with or enemies to fight will obviously stunt his growth as a fighter and Fighting Black Goku wont help because the power gap is to big.

Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo to a lesser digree have the right physiological makeup, environment and personality to be relevant fighters against what they come up against in the future. Ever thing they meet is stronger then the last and if you cant or wont keep up then your going to get left in the dust. Out of all the humans Ten is the only one I would bet on being able to tackle android saga level threats on his own and with all that power he's a ant to Buu and Beerus's Tyrannosaurus Rex.

I hate to say it but Vegeta was right, there are some fights that no amount of training can proper you for. Not every reject can surpass and elite, not every man can surpass a god. That is bitter pill to swallow but its a fact of life.