Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by TekTheNinja » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:52 am

MozillaVulpix wrote:The idea of "I can't catch up, so that means I'm useless. Better just not even try and leave it up to Goku (and Vegeta)" is a theme that pervades the entire franchise, and it's a theme that really bugs me. That if you're not the best, you can't do anything, and you'd be better off not even trying. It's worse in Z, where the reason why characters became outclassed ended up being (sometimes unintentionally) for genetic reasons. In that case, it became "I wasn't born with the potential to be strong, so I shouldn't even keep trying". Which is even worse.
Yeah, and it sends a really bad message for a show that's supposed to motivate you to try hard so you can succeed. Instead it unintentionally sends a message that your genetics simply make some things impossible and you should just give up, which is a really horrible message.
FoolsGil wrote:the last slice of life episode prominently featured Chaozu and Puar!
Those were two scenes that only lasted a couple seconds. I wouldn't consider that prominent.
Barunks wrote:You had major characters in dragonball become minor characters in dbz, so is this really that surprising? I'm fine as long as new characters get more screen time. Who knows, maybe Hit will end up taking Piccolo's slot as the token non saiyan fighter, I would be perfectly fine with that since Piccolo hasn't really been in the action since the Cell games
Well first off most of the DB characters still were relevant in Z. There's no denying that they were less relevant but they were still relevant. Also, I think Piccolo was pretty cool in the Buu arc, training the kids and stuff. Lastly, I find it strange that sometimes the same people who hate GT for being "Goku Time" are perfectly fine with Super being, "The Goku and Vegeta Show". It's really hypocritical. Last bit isn't meant towards you, Barunks, but meant about the Dragon Ball fandom in general.
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saiyanvegetable wrote:Trunks slowly realizes this is not the past he came to when he fought Cell, instead he finds himself trapped in a world with hollow caricatures, a talking cat, and a Goku who beat the heart virus but is suffering from retardation.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Regarder » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:44 am

If not the old cast, then at least some new supporting characters who can keep up with Goku and Vegeta, so it's the same effect as when the old characters were introduced and competed with Goku. We have Hit and Cabba from the tournament but are they actually going to be involved in any adventures with Goku and Vegeta?

Also, they had the PERFECT opportunity to take Goku and Vegeta aside briefly. They set up Goku being weak because of the delayed ki syndrome after using SSB + KK, and then they had Vegeta robbed of his powers. That could have been a whole arc where Goku and Vegeta were weak, and the other characters had to come up with a plan to beat the enemy, but instead the very next episode after the ki syndrome was introduced, Goku was cured making it pointless, and meaning that he could just save the day once Vegeta was weakened. That's bad writing and they dropped the ball on something that could have been great. It's how close they get to something awesome that is the most frustrating thing.

Super is still okay in spite of that for at least introducing new characters that aren't villains that MIGHT be involved again later, such as Hit and Cabba.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by FTW395 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:44 pm

I wouldn't watch Dragonball Super if neither Goku or Vegeta were the main characters of the series.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Kagari » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:10 pm

FTW395 wrote:I wouldn't watch Dragonball Super if neither Goku or Vegeta were the main characters of the series.
The rest of the cast can still be relevant alongside a main character. That's the main issue here.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by namekiansaiyan » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:13 pm

FTW395 wrote:I wouldn't watch Dragonball Super if neither Goku or Vegeta were the main characters of the series.
We don't want them to get replaced but others having a bigger role.

I would like the main cast to be Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo with Krillin and Tien providing support. Gohan doesn't like to fight and he would add nothing to the team and Goten and Trunks are just not very interesting and I dont really like the idea of fusion either.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by pacz360 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:39 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:
FTW395 wrote:I wouldn't watch Dragonball Super if neither Goku or Vegeta were the main characters of the series.
We don't want them to get replaced but others having a bigger role.

I would like the main cast to be Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo with Krillin and Tien providing support. Gohan doesn't like to fight and he would add nothing to the team and Goten and Trunks are just not very interesting and I dont really like the idea of fusion either.
I agree with you on trunks and goten there both boring characters with the former there only cause of his future counterpart.
FTW395 wrote:I wouldn't watch Dragonball Super if neither Goku or Vegeta were the main characters of the series.
who said they gotta be off the show there can be there but at the same time give spotlight to other characters.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by fexus » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:20 pm

What's bad is not that it is Goku & Vegeta show but it is poorly written. I mean I don't want a story that shows Goku for like 2 minutes and then go and show someone like Master Roshi looking at panties, Chichi nagging, Bulma being Bulma, and Pilaf gang hijinks. That's boring. The time they did do that was one of the most boring episode in the show for me. I mean if the only time they manage to get my attention without Goku in it is when they explain new stuff about the universe and the gods. Other than that I would rather have Goku & Vegeta show other than the slice of life mess if they can't write it in an interesting way.
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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Zeru14 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:13 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:
MozillaVulpix wrote:The idea of "I can't catch up, so that means I'm useless. Better just not even try and leave it up to Goku (and Vegeta)" is a theme that pervades the entire franchise, and it's a theme that really bugs me. That if you're not the best, you can't do anything, and you'd be better off not even trying. It's worse in Z, where the reason why characters became outclassed ended up being (sometimes unintentionally) for genetic reasons. In that case, it became "I wasn't born with the potential to be strong, so I shouldn't even keep trying". Which is even worse.
Yeah, and it sends a really bad message for a show that's supposed to motivate you to try hard so you can succeed. Instead it unintentionally sends a message that your genetics simply make some things impossible and you should just give up, which is a really horrible message.
FoolsGil wrote:the last slice of life episode prominently featured Chaozu and Puar!
Those were two scenes that only lasted a couple seconds. I wouldn't consider that prominent.
Barunks wrote:You had major characters in dragonball become minor characters in dbz, so is this really that surprising? I'm fine as long as new characters get more screen time. Who knows, maybe Hit will end up taking Piccolo's slot as the token non saiyan fighter, I would be perfectly fine with that since Piccolo hasn't really been in the action since the Cell games
Well first off most of the DB characters still were relevant in Z. There's no denying that they were less relevant but they were still relevant. Also, I think Piccolo was pretty cool in the Buu arc, training the kids and stuff. Lastly, I find it strange that sometimes the same people who hate GT for being "Goku Time" are perfectly fine with Super being, "The Goku and Vegeta Show". It's really hypocritical. Last bit isn't meant towards you, Barunks, but meant about the Dragon Ball fandom in general.
Yeah it's a bad message, the writers of series like Naruto, Bleach and One Piece do the opposite, with them always being team effort stories and the characters getting power-ups and/or upgrades as the arcs progress.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by TheDBZmaster100 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:53 am

They're both awful characters, it doesn't help that they both hog the majority of the spotlight.
The supporting characters are also ridiculously useless except for Whis and Beerus (who are the only hope for this awful series.).

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:43 am

TheDBZmaster100 wrote:They're both awful characters, it doesn't help that they both hog the majority of the spotlight.
Gokuu and Vegeta aren't awful characters the problem is that they are utilized very poorly in Super.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am

Well coming soon will probably be the Goku, Vegeta, and Goku AGAIN Show! :lol:
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Big Black Sayian » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 am

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:
TheDBZmaster100 wrote:They're both awful characters, it doesn't help that they both hog the majority of the spotlight.
Gokuu and Vegeta aren't awful characters the problem is that they are utilized very poorly in Super.

- Travis
Honestly it feels like there the only characters with goals anymore.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:21 pm

Big Black Saiyan wrote:
Saikyo no Senshi wrote:
TheDBZmaster100 wrote:They're both awful characters, it doesn't help that they both hog the majority of the spotlight.
Gokuu and Vegeta aren't awful characters the problem is that they are utilized very poorly in Super.

- Travis
Honestly it feels like there the only characters with goals anymore.
Doesn't help their goals are essentially the same, making the dynamic more boring.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Beerus-sama » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:22 pm

Yes, its a bad thing, I find myself being bored with most things that involve those two.
With Goku:
- He is dumb in Super to the point is not funny, I thought he was playing around in episode 42, but the recent episode tell me otherwise and it surely will continue like that with Goku genuinely thinking Monaka is stronger. :eh:
- His only motive in the series is to be stronger, whenever he's on screen it shows he's training, he cant live without fighting or training :x

Vegeta:
- Vegeta has become boring.. First in Battle of Gods we saw he cares about Bulma and the others and that was good, I loved it in the movie, but then in Super, the same thing happened and more, with Beerus being a jerk. Then after that we constantly see how Vegeta protects Bulma from Beerus or Goku and he talks to her as a pairing (Vegeta, the character that didn't like to show he has affection for others).
I mean give me a break, have him not care about anyone for a good time or something and then you can return showing he cares...
thats what made Vegeta fun, he was embarrased the moment the other characters noticed he cared, especialy if the character was Goku.

Also what other people have said, these characters are already developed, specially Vegeta, so whatever happen with them now its not a surprise and theres nothing new.
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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by TekTheNinja » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Big Black Saiyan wrote:
Saikyo no Senshi wrote: Gokuu and Vegeta aren't awful characters the problem is that they are utilized very poorly in Super.

- Travis
Honestly it feels like there the only characters with goals anymore.
Doesn't help their goals are essentially the same, making the dynamic more boring.
It also doesn't help that their ONLY goal is, "Imma get swole and beat the gods".
-A bitter fan of the human characters of Dragon Ball.
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saiyanvegetable wrote:Trunks slowly realizes this is not the past he came to when he fought Cell, instead he finds himself trapped in a world with hollow caricatures, a talking cat, and a Goku who beat the heart virus but is suffering from retardation.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:43 pm

Beerus-sama wrote: - His only motive in the series is to be stronger, whenever he's on screen it shows he's training, he cant live without fighting or training :x
If Gokuu gives up fighting and starts doing other stuff he will become one of the worst characters ever and i wouldn't be able to stand him for 2 secs.

- Travis

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by TekTheNinja » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:27 am

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:
Beerus-sama wrote: - His only motive in the series is to be stronger, whenever he's on screen it shows he's training, he cant live without fighting or training :x
If Gokuu gives up fighting and starts doing other stuff he will become one of the worst characters ever and i wouldn't be able to stand him for 2 secs.

- Travis
That's clearly not what he meant. He meant there used to be more to Goku than just a mindless fighting machine.
-A bitter fan of the human characters of Dragon Ball.
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saiyanvegetable wrote:Trunks slowly realizes this is not the past he came to when he fought Cell, instead he finds himself trapped in a world with hollow caricatures, a talking cat, and a Goku who beat the heart virus but is suffering from retardation.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:30 am

TekTheNinja wrote:
Saikyo no Senshi wrote:
Beerus-sama wrote: - His only motive in the series is to be stronger, whenever he's on screen it shows he's training, he cant live without fighting or training :x
If Gokuu gives up fighting and starts doing other stuff he will become one of the worst characters ever and i wouldn't be able to stand him for 2 secs.

- Travis
That's clearly not what he meant. He meant there used to be more to Goku than just a mindless fighting machine.
That's kind of the Dragon Ball fan mentality. If you want something, you want the most extreme possibility. "What you want Piccolo to be useful? So you won't be satisfied til he's powering up and punting villains into the sun, and better than Goku and Vegeta?" There's just no middle ground or subtlety. It's just one big extreme or the other.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by TekTheNinja » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:33 am

Fairly true, man.
-A bitter fan of the human characters of Dragon Ball.
Chris Sabat wrote:#YamchaForever
saiyanvegetable wrote:Trunks slowly realizes this is not the past he came to when he fought Cell, instead he finds himself trapped in a world with hollow caricatures, a talking cat, and a Goku who beat the heart virus but is suffering from retardation.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by pacz360 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:59 am

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:
Beerus-sama wrote: - His only motive in the series is to be stronger, whenever he's on screen it shows he's training, he cant live without fighting or training :x
If Gokuu gives up fighting and starts doing other stuff he will become one of the worst characters ever and i wouldn't be able to stand him for 2 secs.

- Travis
How the fuck you came to that conclusion?

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