Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

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Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by coola » Tue May 31, 2016 7:48 am

Is it really that bad, that Super mainly focus on Goku and Vegeta? i remember back in 2008, after Son Goku Special premiere, i kept reading on internet, how disappointing it was, that after so many years we barely watched Goku and Vegeta fight, and had to watch Goten and Trunks messing around, and now these people got what they want :D While i agree that Piccolo vs Frost aftermath was poorly executed, it is not too bad, we se almost entire cast during slice of life episodes, and Goku and Vegeta are baisically gods now, so it is pretty normal they are way above everybody, i only wish they would get rid of SSJ, jsut say SSJ won't incrase their powerthanks to their god forms, and have only SSJG increase powers :)
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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by namekiansaiyan » Tue May 31, 2016 8:09 am

coola wrote:Is it really that bad, that Super mainly focus on Goku and Vegeta? i remember back in 2008, after Son Goku Special premiere, i kept reading on internet, how disappointing it was, that after so many years we barely watched Goku and Vegeta fight, and had to watch Goten and Trunks messing around, and now these people got what they want :D While i agree that Piccolo vs Frost aftermath was poorly executed, it is not too bad, we se almost entire cast during slice of life episodes, and Goku and Vegeta are baisically gods now, so it is pretty normal they are way above everybody, i only wish they would get rid of SSJ, jsut say SSJ won't incrase their powerthanks to their god forms, and have only SSJG increase powers :)
It is bad as characters like Piccolo have always been fighting characters and not slice of life characters. Why are Goku and Vegeta the only chracters allowed to get stronger and become Gods but others are not allowed A variety of characters is better.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Basaku » Tue May 31, 2016 8:22 am

Is it a bad thing when a story constantly focuses only on 2 characters, one of which hasn't grown as a character since around 1990 and is actually becoming a meme of himself while the other's developement arc has already concluded 20 years ago and while he does progress a tiny bit in Super, it's nothing ground-breaking or deserving of taking up 50% of the screen-time?

The answer is yes, it's a bad thing. Either these 2 characters should progress and develop heavily or take on mentor roles for new generation. What we're getting now is the same old rehash that really doesn't have any point other than sales milking.

And that's not even touching the subject how the rest of the great colorful cast with huge potential gets wasted so Goku and Vegeta can be propped at every oppurtunity.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Big Black Sayian » Tue May 31, 2016 8:59 am

It is if you're a fan of other characters besides Goku and Vegeta. XD
But Super does seem like it has more interest in new characters (Berus, Whis, Jaco, and U6 guys).

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by TekTheNinja » Tue May 31, 2016 9:11 am

Basaku wrote:Is it a bad thing when a story constantly focuses only on 2 characters, one of which hasn't grown as a character since around 1990 and is actually becoming a meme of himself while the other's developement arc has already concluded 20 years ago and while he does progress a tiny bit in Super, it's nothing ground-breaking or deserving of taking up 50% of the screen-time?

The answer is yes, it's a bad thing. Either these 2 characters should progress and develop heavily or take on mentor roles for new generation. What we're getting now is the same old rehash that really doesn't have any point other than sales milking.

And that's not even touching the subject how the rest of the great colorful cast with huge potential gets wasted so Goku and Vegeta can be propped at every oppurtunity.
Pretty much this, but I do have a few things to add...
coola wrote:Goku and Vegeta are basically gods now, so it is pretty normal they are way above everybody
That's exactly the problem. Why do they HAVE to be THIS far ahead of everyone else? Because clearly, they are the only ones that matter to this series. And that's NOT a good thing.
i remember back in 2008, after Son Goku Special premiere, i kept reading on internet, how disappointing it was, that after so many years we barely watched Goku and Vegeta fight
That's exactly why I liked it though. We saw EVERYONE do some cool stuff. Yamcha even got a pretty damn cool spirit ball scene. I wish Super was MORE like that special.
i agree that Piccolo vs Frost aftermath was poorly executed, it is not too bad
Not too bad? It's one of the worst parts in the whole series. It spelled the downfall of the show for me. I was actually excited for the arc at the time and especially excited for that episode, but that was when it let me down and I realized Super would ALWAYS be the Goku and Vegeta show, so why bother even having hope for a cool Piccolo, or Gotenks, or Gohan, or Tien, or Krillin, or ANYONE else episode? That episode was when the show REALLY dropped the ball.
we see almost entire cast during slice of life episodes
I have to disagree there. They barely even speak. The character moments are few and far between.
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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Chuquita » Tue May 31, 2016 9:55 am

Re: bad?

Only now that Toei's breaking up/resetting their friendship to where it was prior to Super. I adored them as the close friends they temporarily became over the course of the first 39 episodes. I'm disappointed Vegeta's moving backwards now.
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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by pacz360 » Tue May 31, 2016 10:01 am

Yes its fucking terrible Especially if the two hasn't shown any growth as characters why can't we give other cast members chance to shine instead of being a goku and vegeta wankfest how about piccolo,buu,gohan,gotenks why not give them roles instead getting there asskicked by the next guy so goku or vegeta can save the day again.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by SansrivaaL » Tue May 31, 2016 10:09 am

Guess it depends on how you take a fictional story, seriously or not, as for me at first I was a Goku fan at Dragon Ball, then came DBZ Gohan from cell arc to boo arc has been my favorite and now I'm back to Goku what I'm trying to say is I take dragon ball as it is, my favorite changes from time to time, you dont have to say having 2 guys be the main focus of the story being a bad thing, as for me Goku is and has always been what Dragon Ball stands for, how people think seeing him is bad or change him to a minor character for a new one is beyond me (again this are all just my opinion)

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue May 31, 2016 11:46 am

Depends on how Goku and Vegeta are utilized. At the moment, it kinda is. They're not interesting enough characters to carry the entire show themselves. I feel like I'm watching the after years of Goku and Vegeta, rather than the continued adventure. I don't want to watch 2 completed characters just interact with everything. If you want them to be the sole focus, it's time they start getting some serious growth and character development. Something very intriguing. Otherwise they need to bring a multitude of interesting side characters back. It's either have 2 main characters with multiple flavours to satisfy, or multiple characters with different flavours to satisfy.
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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Kagari » Tue May 31, 2016 11:59 am

dbzfan7 wrote:Depends on how Goku and Vegeta are utilized. At the moment, it kinda is. They're not interesting enough characters to carry the entire show themselves. I feel like I'm watching the after years of Goku and Vegeta, rather than the continued adventure. I don't want to watch to completed characters just interact with everything. If you want them to be the sole focus, it's time they start getting some serious growth and character development. Something very intriguing. Otherwise they need to bring a multitude of interesting side characters back. It's either have to 2 main characters with multiple flavours to satisfy, or multiple characters with different flavours to satisfy.
Well said. DB/Z has always done a pretty good job at using its large and interesting cast. It wasn't until GT and Super (to an extent) that things started getting really one-sided. I hope the Future Trunks arc can break the trend.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Tue May 31, 2016 12:00 pm

Super has made it crystal clear that besides Gokuu and Vegeta nobody can do a damn thing. But Beers and Whis everybody seems to forget them they are the new supporting characters and they are very important to the plot.So,Super is the Gokuu ,Vegeta ,Beers and Whis show. Take Beers and Whis out Gokuu and Vegeta won't be able to do shit.

With all that said I still think the old cast should be treated a little better and those who are angry with the way they are being treated have every right to be. I would say it isn't a bad thing but it also isn't the best thing but hey Super itself isn't that good.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue May 31, 2016 4:52 pm

I remember another thread quite recently recently asking a question very much akin to the question posed by the OP of this thread, so forgive but I'm gonna be a bit lazy and post the same response here as I did that thread for verbatim:

I really wouldn't mind if Super was focused on Goku and Vegeta, as long as they continue to grow as characters because it would make the plot more unique as their reactions to how the story progresses would be very intriguing.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Chuquita » Tue May 31, 2016 5:01 pm

I felt Vegeta was growing until episode 40 when I felt they reset him back to pre-BOG levels. Makes me so saddened.

But I have hope after reading those two mini summaries for ep 46! I don't want to lose hope. I liked Gokû and Vegeta as genuine friends (who won't work as a team) so much in most of Super. Them invading each other's space was amazing. XD

I'm also amused by how the in-universe seems to be punishing Vegeta for being a jerk to Gokû lately by robbing him of the good luck he had in earlier episodes.
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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Alruneia » Tue May 31, 2016 5:51 pm

I'd say that a Goku & Vegeta show would be a bad thing, yes, as part of what makes Dragon Ball so fun to watch, at least to me, is clever usage of most of/all of the cast. Luckily, not everyone has been demoted to background characters just yet, as Beerus and Whis are still important, and Bulma, Jaco, Goten and Trunks are shown to do... more than nothing. We'll see what happens with the usage of the cast in the Future Trunks arc, though. As I see it, there are three possibilities for what the use of the Dragon Ball cast will be like in the upcoming arc:

One, Future Trunks gets ridiculously boosted and we go from The Goku & Vegeta Show to The San Dai Super Saiya-jin Show. This would push everyone else further into the background to let Future Trunks hog some spotlight and would be the worst case scenario for those of us hoping for a well-utilised cast.

Two, Future Trunks gets thrown in the background character pile along with everyone else and we stay as The Goku & Vegeta Show. This would be an enormous waste of a character, and it's... not all that unlikely, but at least this one wouldn't diminish the importance of everyone else much.

Three, Toriyama finds a way to make everyone relevant even with Future Trunks there, like he did in the Cell arc with for example the remote shutdown device thing. This would be the best solution, but I'm not sure if it's likely to happen or not. I'm leaning towards not, but this one is what I'm hoping for.

We'll just have to wait until June 12th to find out if Super will truly become The Goku & Vegeta Show, because at that point we'll most likely know. Until then, all we can do is hope. geddit it's like on the time machine hahaha
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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Pannaliciour » Tue May 31, 2016 6:08 pm

If you are not strong enough, you stay away of dragon ball. There is literally zero interest having a weak character stealing the show. So no, its not a bad thing when it becomes a Goku and Vegeta show because they train to become stronger. The rest has no motive imo.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Avok » Tue May 31, 2016 6:32 pm

Then the writers need to be clever enough to include the side characters into the fighting.

Right now the side characters are just walking stereotypes, they have no personality (Goku and Vegeta suffer from this as well) and are mere commentators or gag material.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by FoolsGil » Tue May 31, 2016 6:32 pm

It's not really fair to call it the Goku and Vegeta Show, when this series takes time inbetween sagas to develop the characters. You'd only see that stuff in the old DBZ movies. But the last slice of life episode prominently featured Chaozu and Puar! Even in Z they were ignored. And in GT, it truly was Goku Time because everyone was ignored except for Goku.

Its crummy that the fights are constantly relegated to the Saiyans, even to the detriment of story, but outside of fighting everyone gets a turn in the barrel.

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by Barunks » Tue May 31, 2016 7:58 pm

You had major characters in dragonball become minor characters in dbz, so is this really that surprising? I'm fine as long as new characters get more screen time. Who knows, maybe Hit will end up taking Piccolo's slot as the token non saiyan fighter, I would be perfectly fine with that since Piccolo hasn't really been in the action since the Cell games

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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by MozillaVulpix » Tue May 31, 2016 8:49 pm

I guess in its most positive spin it's slightly better than GT. At least we have two main characters with power that makes them relevant to the plot, as opposed to just one.

The real disappointment about this is it didn't have to happen. The story ended off with Goten, Trunks and Gohan at least with the potential to be relevant power-wise whenever they were needed. Goten and Trunks in particular had a lot of potential growth. Whereas Gohan had 3 arcs with him growing up, Goten and Trunks only had one arc to themselves, and they barely matured through it. Piccolo and the humans are also really popular characters and, while having them catch up in power would seem a little ridiculous, it would be enjoyable to see them prove their competence in some way, as opposed to them literally being useless if someone terrible happens and their world is in danger because of it.

The idea of "I can't catch up, so that means I'm useless. Better just not even try and leave it up to Goku (and Vegeta)" is a theme that pervades the entire franchise, and it's a theme that really bugs me. That if you're not the best, you can't do anything, and you'd be better off not even trying. It's worse in Z, where the reason why characters became outclassed ended up being (sometimes unintentionally) for genetic reasons. In that case, it became "I wasn't born with the potential to be strong, so I shouldn't even keep trying". Which is even worse.

Yes, you don't need to be the strongest to be able to be useful. But this is Dragon Ball. The story is focused around fights and an ever-increasing power scale. If you're not the strongest, you can't contribute to a fight. And if you can't contribute to a fight, you might as well not even be there.
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Re: Goku&Vegeta show - bad thing?

Post by kinisking » Tue May 31, 2016 10:29 pm

Yes, it is a bad thing! If Goku was like his old self than I might be happier about it but right now he's mostly boring to me. He only really shined in the Goku Vs. Hit battle. Honestly, I'd rather have a team of Goku,Vegeta, Gotenks, Gohan and Hit right now. You could make Gohan and Gotenks get stronger without outshining Goku and Vegeta like in DBZ (Powerlevel wise). Making Gohan and Gotenks equal to Goku and Vegeta because they don't train 24/7 would make sense. A 5 strong character cast is also something DBZ has shown it's capable of supporting. However, that's just a dream for me. I've pretty much accepted Goku and Vegeta and honestly it's not super bad. I love Gohan but he's not the only reason I watched the show. Don't get me wrong though, I still haven't given up hope for the next arc giving us a strong Trunks that can make this less of a Goku and Vegeta show
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