What are you most happy and agitated with regarding super?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by fadeddreams5 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:00 am

I don't understand how people see the character interaction as a pro when, as stated, these characters are not even the ones we grew up with. That is most certainly not Videl. This is not the Gohan that played superhero or loved to train with his dad. Goku has regressed to a level of stupidity common in American cartoons. Buu is just absolutely unlikable, unlike he was in filler and GT. And everything Vegeta ever stood for and was has been trampled on for the sake of cheap jokes at every corner (when you subvert expectation, you get comedy; in Super, you expect Vegeta to act like a fool). Chi Chi and Roshi's most common traits are overplayed.

Piccolo's the only character that's active and the same as he was by the end of the Buu arc, only now he's even more useless because the story doesn't allow the great "strategist" to be useful.
Last edited by fadeddreams5 on Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by pacz360 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:28 am

fadeddreams5 wrote:I don't understand how people see the character interaction as a pro when, as stated, these characters are not even the ones we grew up with. That is most certainly not Videl. This is not the Gohan that played superhero or loved to train with his dad. Goku has regressed to a level of stupidity common in American cartoons. Buu is just absolutely unlikable, unlike he was in filler and GT. And everything Vegeta ever stood for and was has been trampled on for the sake cheap jokes at every corner (when you subvert expectation, you get comedy; in Super, you expect Vegeta to act like a fool). Chi Chi and Roshi's most common traits are overplayed.

Piccolo's the only character that's active and the same as he was by the end of the Buu arc, only now he's even more useless because the story doesn't allow the great "strategist" to be useful.
Exactly goku doesn't even feel like goku even as a kid he seems much smarter than he is now the others are nothing but background cutouts.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:53 pm

I don't understand how people see the character interaction as a pro when, as stated, these characters are not even the ones we grew up with. That is most certainly not Videl.
I don't really understand this whole idea that Videl is not the same as she used to be in Z. A lot of stuff can happen in your life which can change your attitude towards life and how you interact with people. Getting married and having a child drastically changes how anybody would approach life. Do you think it would be logical for Videl attitude or character to not change knowing she has a child to take of? The well being of child, especially for regular girl like Videl, should be the top priority for Videl so she would realistically would have to time to train or fight as much she would have when she was a teenager because she has more responsibility on her shoulders. Sacrifices have to be made when anybody has child if want take proper care of him/her, and I don't think a lot of people take that into consideration. They see how Videl was in Z and how she settled down in Super and think that her character is ruined when she's just naturally adjusted her attitude and priorities based on massive changes in her life. i.e getting married and having a child.
This is not the Gohan that played superhero or loved to train with his dad.
Gohan is a similar case as his character's changed because, guess what, he got married and has a child and is still looking for greater opportunities to provide as much as he can for his family and I don't understand why Gohan is being getting flack for simply wanting to making he isn't living off of donations from donations from family and friends like Goku and Chi Chi are. Gohan won't always have the time to play Great Saiyaman because that's more of hobby than an actual commitment. When he has actual time to play superhero, he'll do it. And he actually did in an episode of Super, albeit briefly. And, no, Gohan never loved training with his father, hell he pretty much only ever trained once with Goku and that was in circumstances where he really had no choice. I mean, when Goku announced that he was going to coming back to life for one day to take part in WMAT in the Majin Boo arc, Gohan initially wasn't even going to take part in that tournament. It took Videl blackmailing him for that to happen. So Gohan has never willing shown a love for training or fighting with anyone.
Goku has regressed to a level of stupidity common in American cartoons.

Goku stupidity is all down to Toei, but it's not really that overblown. I mean, Goku is a manchild not that quick witted. But I can understand your grips with it.
Buu is just absolutely unlikable, unlike he was in filler and GT.
Majin Boo... is... yeah. I really don't like the direction with his character. So I'm with you on that one, He's basically become Eric Cartman.
And everything Vegeta ever stood for and was has been trampled on for the sake of cheap jokes at every corner (when you subvert expectation, you get comedy; in Super, you expect Vegeta to act like a fool).

Vegeta realising that everything he stood for was holding back in life was part of his character development in the Majin Boo arc. Vegeta stood for "Saiyan pride", and his epiphany in during the battle between SSJ3 Goku and Kid Boo he realised that clinging onto his old birthrates was why Goku was always one step ahead of him and learnt that letting go of his pride is the better thing to do. Hell, him throwing away his pride of Battle Of Gods exemplified this and shown how much Vegeta's character has grown. He doesn't stand by the traditions of Saiyan of anymore. he understands that there more to life than just standing by your pride.
Chi Chi and Roshi's most common traits are overplayed.

Meh. Chi Chi has always been quite a hothead, but she has her moments where she mellows out and just accepts Goku's bullshit because that's ultimately what he can do from time to time but she knows he doesn't do it out of malice or spite. And in all fairness, if you had an irresponsible husband like Goku, your patient would be stretched to the limit. Same deal with Roshi. He's always been a pervert and that characteristic was already overplayed in Z filler.
Piccolo's the only character that's active and the same as he was by the end of the Buu arc, only now he's even more useless because the story doesn't allow the great "strategist" to be useful.
Piccolo's character really hasn't changed that drastically since the Saiyan arc, to be honest. Even before that he's always maintained that aloof, stoic, level headed personality.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by ryou766 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:02 pm

What was the Videl we "grew up with"? I remember her being the one who was always supportive of Gohan, no matter what situation it was. Hell, she was the one who still believed that Gohan was alive while everyone else pretty much automatically assumed he had been killed by Boo.

Unless you mean prior to the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, but that was just repressed feelings. Basically, she was a tsundere.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by kinisking » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:43 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:I don't understand how people see the character interaction as a pro when, as stated, these characters are not even the ones we grew up with. That is most certainly not Videl. This is not the Gohan that played superhero or loved to train with his dad. Goku has regressed to a level of stupidity common in American cartoons. Buu is just absolutely unlikable, unlike he was in filler and GT. And everything Vegeta ever stood for and was has been trampled on for the sake of cheap jokes at every corner (when you subvert expectation, you get comedy; in Super, you expect Vegeta to act like a fool). Chi Chi and Roshi's most common traits are overplayed.

Piccolo's the only character that's active and the same as he was by the end of the Buu arc, only now he's even more useless because the story doesn't allow the great "strategist" to be useful.
Gohan never loved to train. He did it out of necessity. Goku is pretty stupid but sometimes like with Hit you see his old self. I don't see anything out of character for boo, he's always been like that. At least he entered the tournament for Satan. And I hate when people talk that way about Vegeta's development. It's perfectly understandable. You could already see him becoming more goofy in the boo saga. Vegeta also only acts goofy when it's necessary. Protecting his family and getting stronger than Goku is what he cares about. Nothing wrong with acting goofy to do that. He still is a very serious character. His cabba interactions, how he acted in the copy vegeta fight, his unwillingness to work together with goku or tell Goku that he was helping in the time chamber, his anger at goku's kaioken, his anger at surviving the magetta fight because of a technicality ALL that screams Vegeta. Chi Chi isn't that much bitchier in super, she even had a neat moment where she jumped towards him when he got knocked out against frost. Roshi also isn't any more perverted than usual. He also had a nice speech to motivate krillin in the ROF fight.
I mean, when Goku announced that he was going to coming back to life for one day to take part in WMAT in the Majin Boo arc, Gohan initially wasn't even going to take part in that tournament. It took Videl blackmailing him for that to happen. So Gohan has never willing shown a love for training or fighting with anyone.
One of us is remembering this wrong. Goku only decided to join the WMAT after Gohan had been blackmailed into joining it.
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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by Zephyr » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:48 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:I don't understand how people see the character interaction as a pro when, as stated, these characters are not even the ones we grew up with.
There are new characters as well?

I'm also seeing an interesting dichotomy: if a character is the same then they're a stagnant walking caricature, and if they're different then they're out of character with everything they once stood for being trampled on (I'd argue that Vegeta threw all of that away when he agreed to fuse permanently with the man that he hated enough to jeopardize all of existence to beat the tar out of). Vegeta's brooding, acting rash, being cocky, and wanting to surpass Goku? "Wahh, why doesn't he ever change?" Vegeta's putting his pride on the sidelines to save his family, is willing to step down a peg on the pecking order in order to better himself, and isn't trying to kill Goku? "Wahh, why are they ruining my favorite character?" Not saying that's what you're doing, but it sort of comes off that way. It can't be both at the same time, otherwise there's no grounds for complaint. If they're exhibiting both new and old traits, then it seems more like organic, gradual, fluid development to me. Slow change over time.

Character development is a thing, even if it's not in a direction you prefer. Gohan, Videl, and Vegeta have all developed in directions that are understandable. Ideal directions though? That's obviously one of the most debatable things in this discussion. I dislike where Videl went (though I understand, 4 years with Gohan and Chichi could change a person in that way), couldn't care less about where Gohan goes, and I'm rather fond of the new Vegeta. Yes, old Vegeta was also one of my favorite characters, and that's actually why I like where Vegeta's at now. It's progress. I'm happy as hell for him.

I can understand if you don't like the direction Vegeta is headed, but to say that it's out of character just seems silly (unless we want to be pedantic to the point where we would say that a character has to start doing out of character things in order to develop in one direction or another). That's about the extent to which I'm willing to discuss Vegeta's development, as such conversations happen all too often, and if you've not been convinced that his development in Super is arguably reasonable so far, there's not going to be any convincing you. Not even touching the fucking Gohan discussion for the millionth time.

And as I've already said, I think Super's strength in the character interaction department seems to come in trios. Seeing Champa bounce off of both Beerus and Vados in alternation is great. Piccolo and Goku interact regarding Pan. Bulma and Vegeta interacting as a couple, with regards to trying to stay/get on Whis' good side. Goku and Vegeta interacting with each other in the context of being trained by Whis, or doing chores for Beerus. Goku and Satan interacting in a fighting scenario while Chichi was watching was pretty great as well (Goku throwing a fight because he wanted to escape from Chichi, which also made Satan look good for the aliens). Bulma, Vegeta, and Jaco as well.

Now, I'll give you that Roshi, Chichi, and Buu are absolute trash. Throw Goten and Trunks on that pile as well.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:38 pm

Zephyr wrote:Now, I'll give you that Roshi, Chichi, and Buu are absolute trash. Throw Goten and Trunks on that pile as well.
For Goten and Trunks to qualify as "trash", they have to have done something of significance for their actions for be deemed as "trash" in the first place. They've done jack shit since Battle Of Gods. So if anything, they're more like white noise.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by namekiansaiyan » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:05 pm

Kuririn Fan wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
Kuririn Fan wrote: It's not healthy to be negative all the time.
You are probably one of the most negative people on this website.
Why?
Obviously because you hardly say anything positive about.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by TekTheNinja » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:18 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:I don't understand how people see the character interaction as a pro when, as stated, these characters are not even the ones we grew up with. That is most certainly not Videl. This is not the Gohan that played superhero or loved to train with his dad. Goku has regressed to a level of stupidity common in American cartoons. Buu is just absolutely unlikable, unlike he was in filler and GT. And everything Vegeta ever stood for and was has been trampled on for the sake of cheap jokes at every corner (when you subvert expectation, you get comedy; in Super, you expect Vegeta to act like a fool). Chi Chi and Roshi's most common traits are overplayed.

Piccolo's the only character that's active and the same as he was by the end of the Buu arc, only now he's even more useless because the story doesn't allow the great "strategist" to be useful.
So much this. Especially Videl and Gohan.

By the way dudes, just because they settled down and started a family doesn't mean they should become COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE. They like what you'd have if you told an emotionless robot to create a group of characters that are a family. Boring, unrelatable, cardboard cutouts.

Gohan's all like, "I am JOB man. I do JOB. I EMOTION my family, and in my free time, I watch some SPORT on TELEVISION."
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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:58 pm

I'm basically sick of how much more narrow the series is with the focus on everything being about Goku, Vegeta & Beerus' shenanigans. One of the reasons why I was very disappointed with the U6 tournament was how dull it was and how poorly matched it was. Buu was in the roster, therefore he should have fought - but all these aimless gags and stupid conveniences made for the sake of the gag is just frustrating. I'm just so tired how worthless tournaments have been for so long in the series that started the trend. Even in the end Goku & Hit quit because they knew they were wasting their time as well. Even GT's arcs felt like they had some sort of purpose to them.
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By the way dudes, just because they settled down and started a family doesn't mean they should become COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE. They like what you'd have if you told an emotionless robot to create a group of characters that are a family. Boring, unrelatable, cardboard cutouts.
You tend to mellow out as an adult as well and learn to manage your time, make sacrifices for priorities and feel more independent within controlling your choices of personal attachment.
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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:49 pm

It's worth mentioning that, just because you don't understand why someone would like the character interactions we've gotten? That doesn't mean they don't exist. If someone sees them, then they certainly exist from their point of view.

People are allowed to like things by the same token that people are allowed to not like things, so why so many are compelled to go 'What?! How dare you like something about this, it's terrible, you just don't see it!' is beyond me.
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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by ryou766 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:30 pm

SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:Even GT's arcs felt like they had some sort of purpose to them.
I actually enjoyed the arcs from GT than I did with Super thus far. Granted, we can't take expect things to have such a turn around since there's still the EoZ situation. Hopefully this new arc with Mirai Trunks makes things interesting.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by Nekis13 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:17 am

Most Happy: Vegeta's role as a deuteragonist (You have to admit, the main one is still going to be Goku.) The slice of life episodes (like 90% of the people here have mentioned). Bulma's interaction with Beerus/Monaka/Jaco. Fucking Pan getting an episode revolving around her. That SSB Goku vs Hit fight. Cabba and Hit. Beerus and Champa's interactions. The U6 Arc being like... some sort of introduction to what we're gonna be getting from Super and more.

Most Agitated with: Let's pretend the retellings never happened. Piccolo jobbing. The soundtrack (literally only 2 songs are actually good.)

I don't really care about Gohan or the Animation (it's not like it's unwatchable all the time. Unlike Episode 5 and 24.)
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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by Kuririn Fan » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:45 am

namekiansaiyan wrote: Obviously because you hardly say anything positive about.
What?

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:47 am

Kuririn Fan wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote: Obviously because you hardly say anything positive about.
What?
Put Dragon Ball Super after the word about.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by Kuririn Fan » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:48 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:
Kuririn Fan wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote: Obviously because you hardly say anything positive about.
What?
Put Dragon Ball Super after the word about.
I like Dragon Ball Super.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by Khin » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:07 am

TekTheNinja wrote:By the way dudes, just because they settled down and started a family doesn't mean they should become COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.
Um what ? Videl was pretty much acting soft ever since she realized that Gohan killed Cell. Her design is the only one that was changed in Super. As for Gohan, he was always like that ever since he was just a kid. Doesn't like fighting, being a slacker in peace time and wants to be a scholar.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by Zephyr » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:33 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Zephyr wrote:Now, I'll give you that Roshi, Chichi, and Buu are absolute trash. Throw Goten and Trunks on that pile as well.
For Goten and Trunks to qualify as "trash", they have to have done something of significance for their actions for be deemed as "trash" in the first place. They've done jack shit since Battle Of Gods. So if anything, they're more like white noise.
This is true. It just feels like they get enough screen time to make that nothingness into something more grating and tedious than anything else. I'm thankful that they're few and far between though.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by Khin » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:42 am

What's wrong with Buu in Super ? He was pretty much the same as how he was in Z. A guy who acts like a spoiled brat, but still cares about Satan. The main reason why he joined the tournament was to give Satan a wish to the Super Dragon Ball, and he felt sorry for sleeping and not being able to grant Satan's wish.

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Re: What are you most happy and agitated with regarding supe

Post by Shinomori » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:16 am

For me, there's not a whole lot I'm happy with in Super, but I still enjoy the show as a fan. It's like what "Legend of Korra" is in comparison with "Avatar the Last Airbender", it doesn't come anywhere close with it's parent series but I still enjoy the elements of the show.

So, on to the things I dislike. Well, I hate how this show has taken a complete dump on Piccolo. This cat used to be on par with Goku, once forming the strongest tag team the planet has ever seen to take down Raditz. Man, have those glory days come and gone. He's now regulated as a baby sitter and is one of the weakest characters in the show. How in the world did Toriyama allow this to happen is beyond me!

Another thing I dislike is the serious dumbing down of Goku's character. This dude has never been this stupid. A lot of people don't like the idea of an evil Goku being presented in the series, but I'm really relieved to see it happen because I need to see a smarter Goku desperately. I'm actually hoping Goku is the one that becomes evil and seeing the potara earring on the promotional art is promising. One It would mean Goku would become smarter and two, it ensures Goku will not be the main hero of this arc.

Finally, the things I hate about this series overall is the lack of creativity. The Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, and Golden Frieza transformations are all lazy concepts. The SSG transformation is (or was) nothing but a funky version of the kaioken. The SSGB transformation is nothing but coloring Goku and Vegeta's hair blue while in the super saiyan form. I'm still waiting for Goku to go SSGB3, and wondering why he didn't do it against Hit. Then there is Golden Frieza. My thought was if you were going to bring this guy back for a third time, at least give him a true transformation. This could have been Frieza's best moment yet, instead all they did was give him a gold and purple tent, signifying that Frieza is nothing but royal scum. In all theses cases fans were excited about these things, but all I saw is lazy, lazy, lazy ideas. Again people are excitedly expecting to see Super Saiyan God White, but that to is nothing but laziness. What's next? SSG Green? SSG Orange? SSG Rainbow? (By the way, if SSG White is a more unique design than simply turning their hair white in super saiyan form, I will officially apologize for my rantings. The best saiyan transformation in my book is not even canon. Of course yall know I'm referring to the SSJ4 GT transformation.)

Yep, so those are my biggest problems with the show. I didn't even bother to mention Gohan. He officially died during the Cell arc.

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