What are you most happy and agitated with regarding super?

[BrandonR24]

Most Happy:
We have new Dragon Ball
Future Trunks Dark Tone
I like Beerus and Whis
Cabba (Would like to see more of him.)

Agitated:
Animation
Recapping Movies was agonizing to watch since the animation was worse.
The lack of BIG hits, it bothers the crap out of me that most big punches are not shown (like it happens, but cuts to a screen of a "swipe" rather than you seeing it. I mean come on! That's what I loved about Z, show some actual fighting!)
Choreography in fights, just bland. I remember watching Z and that fight with Cell where Goku and him are fighting in an all out battle and some of the action and cuts just being insane.
The music sometimes is just weird. Me and my fiance bust out laughing when Goku appeared on the boat to fight Beerus and that God awful music started.
Lame Gohan, he was my favorite character. Total badass when he needed to be. Yet with the Goku and Vegeta show, everyone has kind of been cast to the side.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Happy:

1. The show giving a f*** and middle finger to power levels
2. New stories
3. New lore & world building
4. New characters (minus Botamo & Frost)

Agitating:

1. Lackluster animation for most of the time
2. Lackluster music
3. Movies retelling

[amuroray]

Happy:

It looks like its going to be a lot shorter then Z.
Happy that they are using the universe more

Negatives,
Animation
No danger at all
Very boring
Slice of life episodes are tragically boring.
Very inconsistent power levels.
The whole thing makes no sense
The creater doesnt really care about consistency which is stupid.
Needs to be far more serious.

[saiyanvegetable]

I don't understand everyone posting about "character interactions". You're all delusional.

Super took every character trope and played them to the extreme - and the height of it's use were terrible gags for the sake of a cheap laugh. These aren't the characters we know and grew up with. These are hollow caricatures that walk and talk like some kind of parody of the dragonball universe. It's fucking horrible.

[Kuririn Fan]

I don't understand everyone posting about "character interactions". You're all delusional.

Super took every character trope and played them to the extreme - and the height of it's use were terrible gags for the sake of a cheap laugh. These aren't the characters we know and grew up with. These are hollow caricatures that walk and talk like some kind of parody of the dragonball universe. It's fucking horrible.

It's not healthy to be negative all the time.

[namekiansaiyan]

It's not healthy to be negative all the time.

You are probably one of the most negative people on this website.

[sintzu]

I don't understand everyone posting about "character interactions". You're all delusional.

Super took every character trope and played them to the extreme - and the height of it's use were terrible gags for the sake of a cheap laugh. These aren't the characters we know and grew up with. These are hollow caricatures that walk and talk like some kind of parody of the dragonball universe. It's fucking horrible.

It's not healthy to be negative all the time.

That's true but what he said isn't exactly wrong.

[pacz360]

Yeah I don't it get character interactions is even all that great the gags are pretty much a hit and miss most of the time also don't like how Monaka stole Mr Satan gimmick.

[kinisking]

Yeah I don't it get character interactions is even all that great the gags are pretty much a hit and miss most of the time also don't like how Monaka stole Mr Satan gimmick.

I think Monaka is better because he kind of gets forced into looking good while Mr. Satan just seems like an attention whore.

[Zephyr]

I don't understand everyone posting about "character interactions". You're all delusional.

Nah. Goku and Vegeta interacting as pupils is a natural extension from where they were in the Buu arc, as is Vegeta bending over backwards to kiss Beerus and Whis' asses (see Araki's post here if you're in the "my precious Vegeta would never act like a little bitch!" camp). Any time Jaco, Vegeta, and Bulma are interacting is great. Champa's interactions with Beerus and Vados are great. Piccolo, Goku, and Pan was as well. The strength seems to be in sets of three. One instance of a good pair interaction would be Goku vs Satan during the Super Satan God Super Satan episode.

I'll give you that a great remainder of the characters are indeed pretty much reduced to caricatures (Goku, Buu, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Videl, Roshi, and Chichi are the most egregious offenders), but calling people delusional for seeing things that you can't/don't want to is ridiculous.

As for the thread proper:

Happy:
- Character interactions
- World building
- Seeing Toriyama himself expanding the story

Ambivalent:
- Character usage
- Lack of a solid editorial department for fact checking and fixing small details like character ages
- Toei's all too frequent characterization flubs
- Production schedule

Agitated:
- Music
- Art style

[Beerus-sama]

... also don't like how Monaka stole Mr Satan gimmick.

Yeah, me neither, atleast with Mr. Satan there were people that actually believe him because in their minds they couldn't accept to be something like ki and super strength, it must be tricks like Mr. Satan said.
Also, he was lucky

With Monaka is just Goku by being the dumbest of dumbs still thinking he's strong because some cat god told him he was the no. 1
Even Beerus was surprised he still believed Monaka was strong when Yamcha screwed it.

[saiyanvegetable]

I don't understand everyone posting about "character interactions". You're all delusional.

Nah. Goku and Vegeta interacting as pupils is a natural extension from where they were in the Buu arc, as is Vegeta bending over backwards to kiss Beerus and Whis' asses (see Araki's post here if you're in the "my precious Vegeta would never act like a little bitch!" camp). Any time Jaco, Vegeta, and Bulma are interacting is great. Champa's interactions with Beerus and Vados are great. Piccolo, Goku, and Pan was as well. The strength seems to be in sets of three. One instance of a good pair interaction would be Goku vs Satan during the Super Satan God Super Satan episode.

I'll give you that a great remainder of the characters are indeed pretty much reduced to caricatures (Goku, Buu, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Videl, Roshi, and Chichi are the most egregious offenders), but calling people delusional for seeing things that you can't/don't want to is ridiculous.

As for the thread proper:

Happy:
- Character interactions
- World building
- Seeing Toriyama himself expanding the story

Ambivalent:
- Character usage
- Lack of a solid editorial department for fact checking and fixing small details like character ages
- Toei's all too frequent characterization flubs
- Production schedule

Agitated:
- Music
- Art style

I'm all for a wiser, more collected Vegeta - but that putting pink aprons on him and pacifiers? For what? People compare it to the "pink shirt" but it's nowhere in the same ballpark. THAT was actually pretty humorous.
Vegeta seems to waver back and forth between being a gag star extraordinaire to his old, prideful "I'll surpass you yet Kakkarot!" throwing another childish temper tantrum not on the battlefield but while out with his kid and wife. I'd argue that Super's Vegeta has no idea who the fuck he is and can't decide (or the writers tbh). His renewed rivalry with Goku could have definitely been explored with the fact that he dropped the ball again, against the tyrant that ruled over his life for the most part, and had to rely on Goku in the end. Again. We even missed some great fucking opportunities with Freeza returning - there's so much history and baggage between the two and none of it was explored at all. We got a "oh Vegeta you used to work for me I'll let you finish Goku off" which was complete. utter. lazy. bullshit.

It's also not the fact that he cowered in front of Beerus, but they way he did it. There was no reason for it to turn into a mix of gags and yaoi fanservice, because it'd have been much more interesting to see a wiser, more collected Vegeta confront a situation where there was no way he could win. He's one of the worst offenders of being a caricature with Goku being #1. He was Z's most developed character at the end and they just threw it all away.

I'll give you a tiny bit of credit, because the only interesting bit from Super that we got out of anybody was when Vegeta fought Cabba. Although it was poorly executed, it was nice to see.


Beerus and Whis are horrible characters that really haven't offered anything substantial the series at all. One is a genocidal maniac (the sort of kind that the Z fighters would never think of befriending, but it's Super so why not) and the other just floats around eating different kinds of food. I like the pupil aspect but again, another missed opportunity. That could have definitely been explored and opened up another aspect of Goku and Vegeta's competitive rivalry that would have deviated from the usual "I'll get stronger than you" and would have been so much fun to watch. But unfortunately, nah.

[Zephyr]

putting pink aprons on him and pacifiers? For what? People compare it to the "pink shirt" but it's nowhere in the same ballpark. THAT was actually pretty humorous.

It's definitely in the same ballpark. The apron, at least, was pretty humorous. Once Vegeta realized what a pacifier actually is, that scene also became humorous.

Vegeta seems to waver back and forth between being a gag star extraordinaire to his old, prideful "I'll surpass you yet Kakkarot!" throwing another childish temper tantrum not on the battlefield but while out with his kid and wife.

I'd argue that Vegeta's in the process of character development. He's moving slowly away from excessive pride. We're still going to see him being prideful and angry, because that's his general personality. His attempts to bite the bullet are going to stand out more as a result.

His renewed rivalry with Goku could have definitely been explored with the fact that he dropped the ball again, against the tyrant that ruled over his life for the most part, and had to rely on Goku in the end.

Vegeta wanted to butt into the fight because Goku was toying around. They were engaging in banter about Freeza's weakness, right there in front of him. He saved Goku's skin, Goku saved his. They're acting more and more like friendly training partners, and the RoF story itself felt more like a training exercise for them than anything else, especially with their martial arts master watching on, and eventually just saving their skin.

Vegeta got to finally give Freeza a beat down, and he's progressed as a character to the point where he's not going to belabor how satisfying it is. He's not some cackling villain who's going to prattle on about how much he enjoys torturing someone he hates. Not anymore, at least. That's not to say that they couldn't have done more with it though; they definitely could have.

It's also not the fact that he cowered in front of Beerus, but they way he did it. There was no reason for it to turn into a mix of gags and yaoi fanservice

The way he did it was just fine. There's literally nothing wrong with playing something for laughs in a comedy series. Not seeing the yaoi fanservice.

it'd have been much more interesting to see a wiser, more collected Vegeta confront a situation where there was no way he could win.

Would it have been interesting? Sure. More interesting? We can agree to disagree there. Seeing Vegeta humiliated for laughs is hilarious to me, because of how much of an annoying spoiled brat he was throughout the manga. I suppose it's a difficult pill to swallow for those who only want seriousness and sophistication out of their Dragon Ball, or those who think that Vegeta is a precious snowflake who is absolutely not allowed to lose a drop of his sacred dignity (which requires ignorance of the source material, but that's beside the point).

One is a genocidal maniac (the sort of kind that the Z fighters would never think of befriending, but it's Super so why not) and the other just floats around eating different kinds of food.

They're both nonchalant about their job, which contrasts greatly with the job itself. They're both able to be reasoned with, which is also always nice. The protagonists have earned their favor through Earth's delicacies. Whis is also a smug cunt, which has been consistently hilarious. Beerus is a fucking cat, which is befitting for a God of Destruction.

That could have definitely been explored and opened up another aspect of Goku and Vegeta's competitive rivalry that would have deviated from the usual "I'll get stronger than you" and would have been so much fun to watch. But unfortunately, nah.

Like that part where Vegeta overthinks things, and Goku doesn't think enough? That didn't exist at all!

Probably going to cut off the conversation here, though. You already ignored plenty of my points, your first post entailed calling those with whom you disagreed "delusional", and your arguments were for the most part along the same lines as those I've been seeing since Battle of Gods came out about how they "ruined Vegeta", which have already been thoroughly argued against. So I don't see this going anywhere. Cheers!

[saiyanvegetable]

It's definitely in the same ballpark. The apron, at least, was pretty humorous. Once Vegeta realized what a pacifier actually is, that scene also became humorous.

One was well executed while the others took their cue from an Adam Sandler movie.

I'd argue that Vegeta's in the process of character development. He's moving slowly away from excessive pride. We're still going to see him being prideful and angry, because that's his general personality. His attempts to bite the bullet are going to stand out more as a result.

Vegeta wanted to butt into the fight because Goku was toying around. They were engaging in banter about Freeza's weakness, right there in front of him. He saved Goku's skin, Goku saved his. They're acting more and more like friendly training partners, and the RoF story itself felt more like a training exercise for them than anything else, especially with their martial arts master watching on, and eventually just saving their skin.

Vegeta got to finally give Freeza a beat down, and he's progressed as a character to the point where he's not going to belabor how satisfying it is. He's not some cackling villain who's going to prattle on about how much he enjoys torturing someone he hates. Not anymore, at least.

No, but this guy murdered his father. Enslaved him. Tortured him. For YEARS. Don't tell me he's zen enough to not enjoy a little paypack but then still throws an existential temper tantrum monologue everytime Goku seems to be one step ahead of him. For a character to develop past his issues, he has to confront them first. Another missed opportunity. (I would have even bought Vegeta smacking him around a bit and then realizing it's not as fun or fulfilling as he thought it would be. ANYTHING)

The way he did it was just fine. There's literally nothing wrong with playing something for laughs in a comedy series. Not seeing the yaoi fanservice.

.
You just hit the nail on the head. It's one thing for character interactions to organically written, but when you are playing for laughs you're dead in the water. Kinda like Super.

Would it have been interesting? Sure. More interesting? We can agree to disagree there. Seeing Vegeta humiliated for laughs is hilarious to me, because of how much of an annoying spoiled brat he was throughout the manga. I suppose it's a difficult pill to swallow for those who only want seriousness and sophistication out of their Dragon Ball, or those who think that Vegeta is a precious snowflake who is absolutely not allowed to lose a drop of his sacred dignity (which requires ignorance of the source material, but that's beside the point).

It's a difficult pill to swallow because it's out of character and done for no reason other than to get a cheap laugh (to cover up the fact that theres no substance there in the first place). It's along the same lines of Goku losing 80 IQ points in the transition from Z to Super. Why? For laughs.

They're both nonchalant about their job, which contrasts greatly with the job itself. They're both able to be reasoned with, which is also always nice. The protagonists have earned their favor through Earth's delicacies. Whis is also a smug cunt, which has been consistently hilarious. Beerus is a fucking cat, which is befitting for a God of Destruction.

Right, are you trying to prove my own point here...?

Like that part where Vegeta overthinks things, and Goku doesn't think enough? That didn't exist at all!

That was admittedly nice, but unfortunately people like you settle for some expository dialogue and count it as some kind of great leap forward in character development. Instead of the recent filler, how nice would it have been to follow Goku and Vegeta in a training exercise that didn't just involve them mindlessly throwing punches at each other or trying to outlift each other? Something like how Kami and Popo had in the Garlic JR filler. The stakes don't need to be anywhere near as high, but that would have nice to see - you know, them working against their own prejudices, weaknesses, and coming together as a team for a brief moment.

Probably going to cut off the conversation here, though. You already ignored plenty of my points, your first post entailed calling those with whom you disagreed "delusional", and your arguments were for the most part along the same lines as those I've been seeing since Battle of Gods came out about how they "ruined Vegeta", which have already been thoroughly argued against. So I don't see this going anywhere. Cheers!

[/quote][/quote]

That's great. Why bother posting then? Maybe some of us are satisfied with gags that are on par with something from an Adam Sandler movie or expository dialogue that's laughably costumed as "character development", but many of us see Super as a missed opportunity. Every Saturday morning cartoon I've watched back in the 90's, which was geared to the same age demographic as Super, has absolutely blown it away in character development, story, world building, etc. It's not hard to see why many of us are disappointed, but I guarantee you it's much harder to understand why people put up with this lazy cash grab. Super is a joke. It didn't have to be.

[Zephyr]

That's great. Why bother posting then?

I wasn't expecting to encounter stale arguments from 2013.

[saiyanvegetable]

That's great. Why bother posting then?

I wasn't expecting to encounter stale arguments from 2013.

That's cute. None of us were expecting D level production across the entire board for DB Super either.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

That's cute. None of us were expecting D level production across the entire board for DB Super either.

Could stop with your one line replies that don´t use arguments.

[saiyanvegetable]

That's cute. None of us were expecting D level production across the entire board for DB Super either.

Could stop with your one line replies that don´t use arguments.

Can you stop cherry picking posts?

[Kuririn Fan]

It's not healthy to be negative all the time.

You are probably one of the most negative people on this website.

Why?

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

I don't understand everyone posting about "character interactions". You're all delusional.

Seriously? Do you really need to be so dismissive to other peoples opinions?

So a bunch of people are considered delusional for liking an aspect of Super that you believe doesn't exist? Yeah... okay.

Please quit acting so condescendingly. Just because you don't think all that highly of Super doesn't mean you can go off and put down those who like some things about it.