Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by supersaiyan DbZ fan » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:43 am

IMHO
When watching GT the first time, and even now, I can still feel the "Z"-ness in it.
I don't know, I can't put my finger on it, not the characters, nor the voices. (Obviously not the animation)

Oh and on Super's animation, the hair always seems to bug me. The hair is always too...rigid...
There is no movement of hair and it overall just seems short compared to how it supposed to be (an "on-model" issue)
Remember the stare down that Vegeta and Goku had in their first fight? Yeah, their hair was long enough and loose enough to be blown by wind.

Basically, there is no wind in Super or their hair lies in another spatial dimension that just bypasses the force of movement/wind acting upon it.
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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by SSJ Human » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:56 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
That would be good actually.
It would kind of being easier to make Super be all a dream/retconned through time manipulation since within the Super series time manipulation has now taken a major part in 3 of its 4 arcs and God powers/universes are now relevant all throughout the series. Basically the get to the end of Super and the Omni-king rewinds time in their universe to where Goku never met Beerus.
We need to go past the end of Z so we have no restrictions in Dragon Ball Super and the end of Z only introduces Uub anyway.
Then everybody's going to be older and we can have different types of stories.

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by sintzu » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:57 am

TheMikado wrote:Having the end of Super be that they rewind it so that it never happened makes everyone happy by allowing it to go past the EoZ while still keeping it intact as "canon".
Why would they need to rewind time so that Super's events didn't happen in order to go past EOZ ?
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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:00 am

TheMikado wrote:Why does it need to? Or do you mean you want it?

Also if they just rewind time so that it never happened why would it matter if it went past EoZ anyway? Having the end of Super be that they rewind it so that it never happened makes everyone happy by allowing it to go past the EoZ while still keeping it intact as "canon".
Why rewind time for a stupid reason such as keeping the original ending intact. Why not just improve the current ending by having it in Super with some changes and then go past it. It will make continuity better and allow Super to not be restricted to a certain timeline. That seems betters to be a better "canon" to me
SSJ Human wrote:
Then everybody's going to be older and we can have different types of stories.
That is why going past end of Z is good thing

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by SSJ Human » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:02 am

That is why going past end of Z is good thing
I wasn't saying that it wouldn't be. I was reacting to what you posted.

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by fadeddreams5 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:13 am

Goodness, I wouldn't want this series to fast forward to the period after Z. I would very much hate that.
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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by TheMikado » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:19 am

fadeddreams5 wrote:Goodness, I wouldn't want this series to fast forward to the period after Z. I would very much hate that.
But some people clearly want it for various reasons.

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:22 am

TheMikado wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goodness, I wouldn't want this series to fast forward to the period after Z. I would very much hate that.
But some people clearly want it for various reasons.
I don't want it to fast forward past the end of Z but in a few years time it could do that as I expect Toei to keep the series going as long as possible.

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by TheMikado » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:23 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:
TheMikado wrote:Why does it need to? Or do you mean you want it?

Also if they just rewind time so that it never happened why would it matter if it went past EoZ anyway? Having the end of Super be that they rewind it so that it never happened makes everyone happy by allowing it to go past the EoZ while still keeping it intact as "canon".
Why rewind time for a stupid reason such as keeping the original ending intact. Why not just improve the current ending by having it in Super with some changes and then go past it. It will make continuity better and allow Super to not be restricted to a certain timeline. That seems betters to be a better "canon" to me
SSJ Human wrote:
Then everybody's going to be older and we can have different types of stories.
That is why going past end of Z is good thing
It doesn't matter to me anyway. It just seems like a much better idea then saying the ending in a completely different series is all a dream in a series made over 20 years later. At least with super all the time rewind/dream nonsense and shenanigans could be contained to one series rather than retroactively retconned and spreading that stuff to the older series that fans enjoyed. It seems like a better compromise to make everyone happy in my opinion.

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by fadeddreams5 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:45 am

The more Super changes, the happier it makes me because it shows it isn't following the original source material and I can treat it as its own thing. Go on, make Trunks' hair blue. Have Bulma meet up with Goku every day until the moment he meets Uub. Never have Goten or Trunks grow. Have Goku refer to Uub, even though Vegeta shouldn't know about him till the moment of that tournament. Hell, make Piccolo pink with no explanation too.

I want this all to be a bad dream.
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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by TheMikado » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:04 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:The more Super changes, the happier it makes me because it shows it isn't following the original source material and I can treat it as its own thing. Go on, make Trunks' hair blue. Have Bulma meet up with Goku every day until the moment he meets Uub. Never have Goten or Trunks grow. Have Goku refer to Uub, even though Vegeta shouldn't know about him till the moment of that tournament. Hell, make Piccolo pink with no explanation too.

I want this all to be a bad dream.
All this plus the inconsistent power explosion makes me want the same thing.

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by Alruneia » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:24 pm

I really do wish they'd move on to connect Super with EoZ and then begin making stuff after that. You don't need to timeskip all the way to GT, but having some arcs in 784 is better than cramming three arcs into the space of 779-780 (Freeza, Champa, Trunks). I hope that after the Trunks arc they'll move on. They probably won't, but I hope. I've already had to cut Super off after the Champa saga as far as writing fan fiction goes, so for me personally, Super is kinda it's own thing at this point (nothing happens between Champa and EoZ, Zen'ou tournament coincides with EoZ). I'd just enjoy Super more if I could see characters progress or (especially) grow up. Looking at you, Marron, Goten and Trunks...
Another, more minor, complaint I have is that I wish they'd be more consistent with Super Saiyan forms. I love Super Saiyan 2, but in half of the Goku vs Black fight, SSJ2 looked like SSJ1, and in Goku vs Trunks (spar), SSJ2 was literally just SSJ1 with sparks. What's extra weird about this is that Toriyama said that they probably wouldn't use 2 or 3 anymore. I know that things have changed, but... still.
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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by HybridSaiyan » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:46 am

As a die-hard fan of Bruce Faulconer and the Funi Dub, Dragon Ball Super is like Cancer to me and with Goku being a brainless, retarded Luffy 2.0. My sanity is rapidly going to explode until I'm like Super Goku too. The Retcons are adding salt to the wound too.

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by Bansho64 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:09 am

supersaiyan DbZ fan wrote:IMHO
When watching GT the first time, and even now, I can still feel the "Z"-ness in it.
I don't know, I can't put my finger on it, not the characters, nor the voices. (Obviously not the animation)
Thank God I'm not the only one who feels this way. I stated this a couple of months ago in a thread while back and the feeling hasn't shown itself to me yet. It's not necessarily Z-ness for me but something that goes even further back all the way to the Pilaf arc. GT has that fun and playful Dragon Ball feel for me. Super....it doesn't have it for me. It feels empty and lifeless sometimes. Please don't hate me for this guys but that's just how Super comes across to me. I hope I don't seem like a hater.

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by gofishus » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:50 am

Storylines are too predictable, villains arent interesting aside from Hit (Golden Frieza? cmon), characters aside from Goku/Vegeta got shafted, etc I think I prefer DBGT over this overall they make use of every character and have new villains each time. SSJ4 is also a very unique transformation whereas SS Blue is just... blue...

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by kayojin » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:27 am

there's lots about super that i like, which makes its flaws more glaring to me - i desperately want this story to be told, and to be told well.

as many others have said, the animation is borderline ugly and often unacceptable. the line-art looks like fanart. why is trunks' hair spiky at the ends now? why do everybody's eyes vary in size depending on the frame? why is everything shiny? i'd rather wait longer for material than be served something subpar. this is DRAGON BALL. arguably one of the most important anime franchises of all time along with gundam, etc. it should be treated with more respect by those producing it.

aside from that, my other major complaint has also been addressed in this thread: i wanted to see what happened after the EoZ. the whole reason many people were thrilled to see GT retconned was that we felt we were getting a second opportunity to tell gohan's, goten's, trunks', pan's, and uub's stories. a chance to skip 'child goku' and 'flat top vegeta', and take the series towards the direction implied by EoZ - goku playing more of the role of a mentor by taking uub to train. goten and trunks as knucklehead teens with potential. pan as the 'child' character. i'd rather see low-powered, low-stakes adventures (a la GT, even, tbh, that was one of the good elements of that show) featuring goten/trunks/uub/pan than more 'can we fight!? wow! this is SSJ. this is SSJ2. this is SSJ3. this is SSB. now i'll stop holding back. i win!!' storylines featuring goku/vegeta.

i think that sooner or later, goku and vegeta need to 'ascend'. they're simply too powerful to feature any other characters next to them. they need to play the roles of the god-like entities they've become, and take more of a backseat in the narrative so that we can age and advance our many interesting, younger characters.

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by Quantum-Kakarrotto » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:14 am

It's not really Dragon Ball Super as a whole I have a problem with, it's mostly the anime and what Toei is doing to it. Ever since the start of the anime the time-line has been so inconsistent that you don't even know when during the 10 year period it's in. All the unnecessary power ups making everyone question how Goku or Vegeta aren't up to Beerus's level yet. The rehashes Toei does with the anime like Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken which was just a rehash of Super Kaio-Ken. All these unnecessary time-skips during the anime that just come at random that make's us fans question when this story is taking place during the 10-year gap and how Bra isn't born yet when she should be by this time according to the anime. Also I agree that Super, at least the anime to me, doesn't really feel the same as Dragon Ball or Z, GT no matter how bad the story was still had that Dragon Ball feel to it that you could grab onto in order to watch the series. Super in the beginning just felt like something else altogether at the start.

Another problem I have with the anime is how they characterize Goku, he's acting so immature compared to how he was in Z and he just doesn't feel like Goku to me most of the time. Goku has no reason to act like he's 12 years old again.

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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by omaro34 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:43 am

The lack of tension in Super is another big problem I have with the series. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy these characters, especially Beerus as he is quickly becoming one of my favorites in the show.

However, with that said, none of the villains thus far are stronger than Beerus or especially Whis. Now I know they likely won't get involved in the fights but their presence alone just cuts the tension down dramatically because you know that there are beings that can end Arcs very quickly if they wanted to.
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Re: Your Problem(s) with DragonBall Super

Post by Akyon » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:30 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with the lack of tension sentiments. It's been my biggest issue.

The whole tournament arc for example felt POINTLESS and completely devoid of any tension. Nothing was at stake. Absolutely zippo. If Champa wished for Earth to be in U6 instead of U7, what exactly would change for the heroes? They all live on Earth. I guess Goku might not be able to visit King Kai as easily and Dende wouldn't be in the same universe as his family he never sees but for the majority of Earth Heroes who live on Earth with their families and spend all their time on the planet? Nothing on Earth is affected by being in a different universe really.

Heck I was half cheering for Champa to win because it was such a non issue.

My other issues are more issues that Dragonball has ALWAYS suffered from:
-Buu getting left behind. Considering he was the biggest threat prior to Beerus turning up, he sure is less than useful in Super. Chiaoutzu's been utilised better which is ridiculous.
-Yamcha and to a lesser extent Tenshinhan never get to do anything.
-The weaker, more forgettable opponents have far more interesting abilities/attacks and diverse designs than the stronger characters. Looking at Champa's champions; Botamo and Magetta were infinitely more interesting to me than Frost and Cabba and to an extent even Hit.

Whilst Gohan, Piccolo and Krillin, three of my favourites, get very little combat time we do get to see their personal lives and honestly I'm okay with seeing them interact more than being used to show WHAT A THREAT the next villain is so I don't really view that as a negative.
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