Is Goku a real hero?

[Alee9977]

So, during all Z-era and also in Super we can see his selfish and childish personality (most in Super). We all know he was able to beat a lot of enemies but only when it was a critical situation, after a lot of people got killed and planets were destroyed, he never killed a enemy the moment he appeared, for example, in the Goku vs Black fight he was only using SSJ2 when we know he can go far beyond that, he was only having fun even when he knew what Black has done to Trunks' future, meanwhile F. Trunks was completely worried.
Also, in the Cell arc, he gave Cell a senzu bean before fighting with his ELEVEN YEAR-OLD SON, and when he died, he didn't want to get back to life because he wanted to fight with strong people and rejected to live with his family. I mean, we know he loves fighting but leaving his wife alone with two kids, really?
Across all the story, he made bad (or selfish) desitions but at least he was more serious, now, we have his really inmature, seriousless and selfish personality in Super, and for me, it's really disgusting.
What do you guys think about him? Is he a real hero or not?

[Anime Kitten]

To an extent. If his closest, and I mean closest friends are in danger, sure he'll save them. If the world is in danger? Sure he'll save it-- wait, there's a strong guy?! Oh! Guess he'll probably need to fight him first.

Basically, fight first, save later.

[Nejishiki]

I think this scan from Kanzenshuu sums up Goku's hero status well enough.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I think if anyone deserves the hero status in DB it is probably Vegeta. I was re-watching BoG (Extended cut) yesterday and the difference between the two was astounding. Vegeta see's Beerus he's on edge and his sole purpose is to stop pissing Beerus so he wouldn't destroy the Earth and it got to the point he even had to throw his pride away. Whereas Goku challenged Beerus to a fight then and their despite previous warnings and with no care for Kaio or his planet.

Second thing that I noticed was when it got the point where Vegeta had to fight he took Beerus away from everybody, now compared to when Goku got SSG, he (Goku) and Beerus started fighting there and then and it was Whis who was the one that told everyone to get to safety, and the fight spiralled into the open City yet Goku's only concern was that SSG was a level he couldn't reach. This is again shown in Resurrection "F" where Base Goku was fighting Freeza with no care where he was deflecting Freeza's ki blasts and Vegeta was the one to counter them.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Yes, he's a hero. He's not perfect, but no one really is. He makes mistakes, but he's still a hero.

[Alee9977]

I think if anyone deserves the hero status in DB it is probably Vegeta. I was re-watching BoG (Extended cut) yesterday and the difference between the two was astounding. Vegeta see's Beerus he's on edge and his sole purpose is to stop pissing Beerus so he wouldn't destroy the Earth and it got to the point he even had to throw his pride away. Whereas Goku challenged Beerus to a fight then and their despite previous warnings and with no care for Kaio or his planet.

Second thing that I noticed was when it got the point where Vegeta had to fight he took Beerus away from everybody, now compared to when Goku got SSG, he (Goku) and Beerus started fighting there and then and it was Whis who was the one that told everyone to get to safety, and the fight spiralled into the open City yet Goku's only concern was that SSG was a level he couldn't reach. This is again shown in Resurrection "F" where Base Goku was fighting Freeza with no care where he was deflecting Freeza's ki blasts and Vegeta was the one to counter them.

I really agree with you. Vegeta's development is extraordinary, he will do anything to protect Earth and his family, he takes the enemies seriously unlike Goku, he has been always the same and never took things seriously from the beginning.
I hope he can be the main character of this arc and will be the one who defeats Black.
And also I hope Goku can have a development like Jaden Yuki from Yugioh Gx, he used to be like Goku but at the end, he was serious with everything and stopped making jokes of anything.

[Soppa Saia People]

I think Gaffer said it best
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33568&p=1064180&hilit=#p1064180
The whole "Gokuu is selfish dick/man child" is something I can't stand.

[Kanassa]

Goku is a real hero, he's just not the best at being one. He's not a bastard who will knowingly let innocents suffer just for a good fight, he's just the type of person who can't see past the now. With Frueza, he doesn't think about what Frieza could do later, just what he can do now. He gave Cell a senzu bean because he knew Gohan's power, but didn't think on if Gohan knew about it.

Goku is a hero, but that doesn't make his gaping flaws dissappear.

[LightBing]

Not for me. A hero can't be as selfish as Goku is most of the time. He's had heroic moments, still most of his fight's boil downs to self-service and survival.
I'm not saying Goku would ignore people in danger, even if it was uninteresting. But compare it with Gohan, who still to this day has his Great Saiyaman persona. Gohan is a hero an actual hero because he's proactive.

[Miracles]

Toriyama said Goku only fights for selfish reasons and saving the day is collateral damage so to speak.

lol

[TekTheNinja]

I'll just reply to this quote here as to not derail the episode thread.

You do realize that Toriyama's Goku isn't a hero but a saiyan that loves to fight. If there was one thing that the anime is doing right it would be potraying his characterization (the way Toriyama wants).

No, no, no... I hear that all the time, but no. Just no. He is a hero, just a flawed one. He isn't supposed to be a complete unlikable asshole like some people seem to think he's supposed to be.

Wired: There’s actually “poison” inside?

Toriyama: Right. There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I’ve always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of “poison” that slip in and out of sight among the shadows.

Wired: Perhaps that’s because it’s animation aimed at children, after all?

Toriyama: Well, that might be some of it, too.

I feel people take that too literally. Goku has clearly fought for the sake of others multiple times before. I always took that interview as Toriyama saying he didn't like their portrayal of Goku as this perfect superhero type guy. I DON'T think he was saying that Goku is just a selfish asshole. No one would like a selfish asshole as a main character. While Goku IS a bit selfish, that's just what makes him a flawed character instead of a mister perfect superhero type character.

[dbzfan7]

He was heroic once. He isn't really anymore. Vegeta is more of a hero than he is now a days. The example above is really shocking.

[TekTheNinja]

He was heroic once. He isn't really anymore. Vegeta is more of a hero than he is now a days. The example above is really shocking.

It's kinda that Goku in Super is just an asshole, but we're supposed to root for him anyway. It's annoying.

[Alee9977]

He was heroic once. He isn't really anymore. Vegeta is more of a hero than he is now a days. The example above is really shocking.

It's kinda that Goku in Super is just an asshole, but we're supposed to root for him anyway. It's annoying.

He is a brainless asshole in Super, they are making him really ignorant, in Z at least he knows what's going on, here it seems he has no idea about anything and only wants to fight.

[Rip the Jacker]

He was before super ruined all the charactrs.

[Lord Beerus]

I've said this before and I'll say it again... I've always seen Goku as more of a classical hero, much like Hercules. He is more than willing to protect his friends and family and save the day, but the fashion of which he will go about it very morally ambiguous and questioning.

He was heroic once. He isn't really anymore. Vegeta is more of a hero than he is now a days. The example above is really shocking.

He stopped being a true hero when he learnt the concept of mercy from training with Kami and then warped that concept to please his own selfish desires.

He was heroic once. He isn't really anymore. Vegeta is more of a hero than he is now a days. The example above is really shocking.

It's kinda that Goku in Super is just an asshole, but we're supposed to root for him anyway. It's annoying.

He is a brainless asshole in Super, they are making him really ignorant, in Z at least he knows what's going on, here it seems he has no idea about anything and only wants to fight.

Goku's has acted like a brainless asshole on many occasions in the original story. I think people really blow out of proportion how ignorant Goku is in Super.

[ChronoTwigger]

Goku is more of a minimal, everyday hero.
He avenged Upa father, saved the ice village against Red Ribbon, fought against a lotta enemies to save/protect INDIVIDUALS.

But he cannot fight for an abstract ideal of "justice".

[fadeddreams5]

I think if anyone deserves the hero status in DB it is probably Vegeta. I was re-watching BoG (Extended cut) yesterday and the difference between the two was astounding. Vegeta see's Beerus he's on edge and his sole purpose is to stop pissing Beerus so he wouldn't destroy the Earth and it got to the point he even had to throw his pride away. Whereas Goku challenged Beerus to a fight then and their despite previous warnings and with no care for Kaio or his planet.

Second thing that I noticed was when it got the point where Vegeta had to fight he took Beerus away from everybody, now compared to when Goku got SSG, he (Goku) and Beerus started fighting there and then and it was Whis who was the one that told everyone to get to safety, and the fight spiralled into the open City yet Goku's only concern was that SSG was a level he couldn't reach. This is again shown in Resurrection "F" where Base Goku was fighting Freeza with no care where he was deflecting Freeza's ki blasts and Vegeta was the one to counter them.

lol. This is the same guy who committed genocides multiple times off-screen, killed innocent namekian elders on-screen, didn't give two shits that his family was going to die in the android saga, let Cell reach his perfect form even as his son begged him not to, and killed with glee hundreds of people in a stadium. He's never repented anything. His pride now lies with his family too, which is the key difference. And if Super ever tries hard to push heroism or righteousness with him, it's another case of someone being OoC there.

I'd say everyone besides Vegeta is a hero in DB. People trivialize Goku's obsession with fighting and believe he's this one-dimensional idiot who is completely apathetic if his actions result in the deaths of millions. I don't blame them; not only has he done stupid things in the past (i.e. Cell + senzu bean), but this is exactly how Super is portraying him. There are several different versions of Goku. In DB, he demonstrated genuine selflessness multiple times. In GT and the movies, he fights more for "good" than for the thrill of a fight. In DBZ, it fluctuates. In Super, he's a retard.

[EmmaWinters]

He is a brainless asshole in Super, they are making him really ignorant, in Z at least he knows what's going on, here it seems he has no idea about anything and only wants to fight.

Goku's has acted like a brainless asshole on many occasions in the original story. I think people really blow out of proportion how ignorant Goku is in Super.

I imagine part of it has to do with how Goku's lines are being handled. The current fan-translations allow themselves to play up Goku's "accent" a bit more than Steve Simmons does.

[Lord Beerus]

He is a brainless asshole in Super, they are making him really ignorant, in Z at least he knows what's going on, here it seems he has no idea about anything and only wants to fight.

Goku's has acted like a brainless asshole on many occasions in the original story. I think people really blow out of proportion how ignorant Goku is in Super.

I imagine part of it has to do with how Goku's lines are being handled. The current fan-translations allow themselves to play up Goku's "accent" a bit more than Steve Simmons does.

That's a good point, Lord Master Moderator EmmaWinters. And it just make the importance of how fansubs are handled all the more critical to how certain fans will end up interpreting the story.